What Is wrong With 7s?

[wymberley]

Of the 4 main UK makers one produces more No7 game loads than the other 3 put together (source - Just Cartridges). One of the three produces just one but does make a 28g load of what would be 3&1/2s. What am I missing that having done their market research caused them to believe that this latter load will be more viable profit-wise than a very nice 1&1/16 oz of No 7s - even if this was only available as is another of their loads, during early season (ES is their code)? I'm damned if I can understand it. Big shot I can understand, but no little shot I can't. Are they making what they think we should use or is it a case of them making what market research reflects that that is what we want?

[super sharp shooter]

36g 7s is my go to load.

[Bluebarrels]

What confuses me is that many say you shouldn't shoot pigeons etc with a 28g 7 or 7 1/2 but to be honest if placed in the right spot these are effective on decoyed pigeons/crows.

But then it's okay to shoot with 18g .410 carts,am I missing something?

Surely a 28g load will always deliver a more fatal blow over a 18g load no matter the difference in shot size? BB

[Continental Shooter]

nothing wrong

 

What confuses me is that many say you shouldn't shoot pigeons etc with a 28g 7 or 7 1/2 but to be honest if placed in the right spot these are effective on decoyed pigeons/crows.
But then it's okay to shoot with 18g .410 carts,am I missing something?
Surely a 28g load will always deliver a more fatal blow over a 18g load no matter the difference in shot size? BB

 

It's actually the opposit from an energy persoective meaning 5's will kill better than 7's ; however, you're right 28g 7's will provide a fuller pattern with, potentially, more pellets hitting the target.

 

I've got nothing against 7 for decoyed pigeons, roosting ducks, pheasants under pointing dogs (or well trainied spaniels); game wise will be perfect for patridges, woodcocks and early season pheasants but i am not too convinced on high january pheasants...

 

36g #7's will provide a goot pattern at long distance with a full choke but i wouldn't want to ***** any quarry (even with picker ups) so, i'd go for 36g #5's instead

[rbrowning2]

I like 6.5 (2.5mm) and that gets very little support from the commercial manufactures. For 28gm in 7 you are best looking for a continental cartridge in 7.5 as in most cases that will be 2.4mm

 

Time perhaps the old English sizes were dropped and all sold only in metric so we know for certain what we are buying.

[Stonepark]

They are addressing the percieved needs of the unenlightened masses for whom bigger is better.

 

Hit harder, reach further, bring down those screamers.......

 

On most pheasant shoots 95% of the birds are within 40 yards, but most guns are now using cartridges aimed at the 50 yard market.

 

Conversely, using my 410 (18g no7 or 21g no7.25), very little is out of range on a normal day.

[propercartridges]

my best seller last season was 36 gram 4 you have to buy lead into stock for what the market wants please now fill a 24 ton lorry for me at 2500 plus vat a ton what am i going to use this is my order15 ton 2.7 mm 5 ton 2.9 mm 2 ton 2.3mm and 2 ton 3.1mm that is for now this very moment but get it wrong and you have alot of money sitting on the floor then you have to buy more to get it right i cannot predict what people want just made 32 gram in 6.5 or 2.5smm for sum malta lads but for decoyed pigeons in scotland but but but you just dont know how many and what people want thanks george 07714 323 909

36g 7s is my go to load.

i will make u them how many you want cheers george 07714 323 909 plastic or fibre

[propercartridges]

36g 7s is my go to load.

can i be nosey and ask wot you are shooting with them and the range cheers george coming to roade northampton hopefully next week cheers george

[Whitebridges]

George what's the price for a thousand 6.5 shot 32g plastic wad next time you're in Norfolk?

[propercartridges]

nothing wrong

 

 

It's actually the opposit from an energy persoective meaning 5's will kill better than 7's ; however, you're right 28g 7's will provide a fuller pattern with, potentially, more pellets hitting the target.

 

I've got nothing against 7 for decoyed pigeons, roosting ducks, pheasants under pointing dogs (or well trainied spaniels); game wise will be perfect for patridges, woodcocks and early season pheasants but i am not too convinced on high january pheasants...

 

36g #7's will provide a goot pattern at long distance with a full choke but i wouldn't want to ***** any quarry (even with picker ups) so, i'd go for 36g #5's instead

your last few words been i think italian would say that your 5s would be our 4 and half in 2.9mm yes so i am not far away by saying my best selling load for high game is 4s in 36 gram is 3.00mm wot u think cheers george

[propercartridges]

George what's the price for a thousand 6.5 shot 32g plastic wad next time you're in Norfolk?

selling in batches of 5k to trade at hi speed delivered new price of 220 inc vat plastic fibre 236 cheers george

[propercartridges]

selling in batches of 5k to trade at hi speed delivered new price of 220 inc vat plastic fibre 236 cheers george

pallet left me to day for lad in cromer is that near you thats norfolk he will get them morra

[Whitebridges]

George PM me his details i'll buy some, Ta

[fortune]

Does anyone in Kent or East Sussex stock your cartridges? Such as 32g x 6 shot?

[eastdevon]

What confuses me is that many say you shouldn't shoot pigeons etc with a 28g 7 or 7 1/2 but to be honest if placed in the right spot these are effective on decoyed pigeons/crows.

But then it's okay to shoot with 18g .410 carts,am I missing something?

Surely a 28g load will always deliver a more fatal blow over a 18g load no matter the difference in shot size? BB

 

I have just started using a cartridge load made by Eley for sportsman gun centre. They are a 28g of 7.5shot in either fibre (which I use) or plastic wad. Now using these through a half choke last weekend really upset the crows!! Of the 50 fired resulted in 37 on the deck so for me I can't see any point spending loads on a cartridge load when these at £40 a case do the job just as well.

[rbrowning2]

Does anyone in Kent or East Sussex stock your cartridges? Such as 32g x 6 shot?

value for money then Fes in Folkestone Kent has fiocchi 32 gm 6 for £218.00 in fibre but not listing plastic.

[Walker570]

How many pellets on average do you find in your birds when you clean them ??

The statement that 18grms is less fatal than 28grms is not true. The velocity hence the penetration of the shot will dictate if the pellet hit will be fatal. I shoot 18/19grms of the UK equivalent #7s or #7 1/4 from 30 inch barrels both full choke and the patterns I have are 30 inches at 35yrds. If I do my bit at sensible ranges up to 40yrds then the bird will die be it pheasant or partridge. I shoot 410 exclusively and this last season my personal average was well below 3 to 1. This season in particular I have seen guns bringing high brass heavy loads 4s and 5s to shoot birds which rarely get above 40yrds and more commonly are 25yrds or less and birds I am taking home are blow to pieces.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Walker570

[Guest cookoff013]

36g 7s is my go to load.

 

partridge-cartridge?

[Bluebarrels]

The statement of 18g been less fatal than 28g is made only,as in less pellet strike from a much smaller amount of shot at the receiving end!

So if I was to shoot a pigeon with an 18g load and also a 28g load at the same distance,even though the single shot contained in both cartridges was travelling at the same velocity,the 28g cart would give more hits on the target,therefore it would be more fatal?

Edited March 2, 2017 by Bluebarrels

[wymberley]

They are addressing the percieved needs of the unenlightened masses for whom bigger is better.

 

Hit harder, reach further, bring down those screamers.......

 

On most pheasant shoots 95% of the birds are within 40 yards, but most guns are now using cartridges aimed at the 50 yard market.

 

Conversely, using my 410 (18g no7 or 21g no7.25), very little is out of range on a normal day.

It would seem so.

 

How many pellets on average do you find in your birds when you clean them ??

The statement that 18grms is less fatal than 28grms is not true. The velocity hence the penetration of the shot will dictate if the pellet hit will be fatal. I shoot 18/19grms of the UK equivalent #7s or #7 1/4 from 30 inch barrels both full choke and the patterns I have are 30 inches at 35yrds. If I do my bit at sensible ranges up to 40yrds then the bird will die be it pheasant or partridge. I shoot 410 exclusively and this last season my personal average was well below 3 to 1. This season in particular I have seen guns bringing high brass heavy loads 4s and 5s to shoot birds which rarely get above 40yrds and more commonly are 25yrds or less and birds I am taking home are blow to pieces.

It would seem as though some folk aren't aware that any shotgun barrel only has an effective sporting range of c20 yards at best.........if you think about it.

[figgy]

I could understand 36g of 7 in a fixed cylinder bore gun to keep a pattern at range or hit as many in a flock as you can but not in choked guns.

 

Can't remember what the optimal pattern pellet count is through say half choke at 40/45 yards that would be my yard stick to work out the amount of shot in sizes and weights to do the best job.

 

I think it's 28 or 30g of seven then 30/32g six and so on. Unless your going to extreme range then pellet weight becomes a factor.

[propercartridges]

I have just started using a cartridge load made by Eley for sportsman gun centre. They are a 28g of 7.5shot in either fibre (which I use) or plastic wad. Now using these through a half choke last weekend really upset the crows!! Of the 50 fired resulted in 37 on the deck so for me I can't see any point spending loads on a cartridge load when these at £40 a case do the job just as well.

at 160 a thousand and may come cheaper on the 1k rate take this advice free of charge go and beg borrow max your credit card out get yourself into debt and buy the lot pull the vat out and you are less than 130 just go and buy them now now now

[propercartridges]

Does anyone in Kent or East Sussex stock your cartridges? Such as 32g x 6 shot?

giz a ring 07714 323 909 cheers g

[propercartridges]

Of the 4 main UK makers one produces more No7 game loads than the other 3 put together (source - Just Cartridges). One of the three produces just one but does make a 28g load of what would be 3&1/2s. What am I missing that having done their market research caused them to believe that this latter load will be more viable profit-wise than a very nice 1&1/16 oz of No 7s - even if this was only available as is another of their loads, during early season (ES is their code)? I'm damned if I can understand it. Big shot I can understand, but no little shot I can't. Are they making what they think we should use or is it a case of them making what market research reflects that that is what we want?

the demand is simple you make what people want my machine will make 12000 per hour but i run it at 8 k or 9k to get good precise loads it prints and packs as well so thats a box of 25 every 6 to 7 seconds so i put in a good day and make 100 000 how long do they sit there fur so 5 hour to set machine run for 1 good day ther more after the load is done it all has to be changed and the new loads proofed and tested which will easily amount to 5 to 6 hours of down time now i chose to make model t fords just keep feeding the machine on the same cart churning them out as they say now given a order from shooters throughout the closed season 2 k here 3 k there it may add up to something decent but the demand is not there

[wymberley]

the demand is simple you make what people want my machine will make 12000 per hour but i run it at 8 k or 9k to get good precise loads it prints and packs as well so thats a box of 25 every 6 to 7 seconds so i put in a good day and make 100 000 how long do they sit there fur so 5 hour to set machine run for 1 good day ther more after the load is done it all has to be changed and the new loads proofed and tested which will easily amount to 5 to 6 hours of down time now i chose to make model t fords just keep feeding the machine on the same cart churning them out as they say now given a order from shooters throughout the closed season 2 k here 3 k there it may add up to something decent but the demand is not there

So, if I understand you correctly, as a producer you are saying that you make what people want but the demand is not there for No7s throughout the year. Now, whereas I appreciate that the PW sample is miniscule compared to the overall shooter numbers, this is not what I'm picking up on here.

 

I agree with rbrowning2 - in view of Eley and their Pigeon HV situation, one simply has to. This means that 2 of the 3 most historically popular pigeon and small game shot sizes, but of particular interest is the former, are being phased out. Unless there are far, far less pigeon shooters which would warrant production cutbacks than we're lead to believe, with which I do not believe, this simply does not make sense to me.

 

Consequently, I could quite easily be persuaded to think that the producers are loading what they think we should use which keeps their production costs down and their profits up by curtailing the amount/range of (expensive) lead shot purchased. Having said that though, I can see their point of view if the demand by the shooters themselves for 36g of No5s for 'high' pigeon or 42g of No3s for even 'higher' pheasant continues to spiral.

 

As your advice was FOC, it might pay for me to take that which you gave to Eastdevon and buy sufficient of what I use in order to see me out - which I fear won't be too long now in the overall scheme of things - while you can still get them.