Centrefire subsonic rounds - anyone here shoot one?

[njc110381]

Morning chaps. My gun building/buying bug is hitting me again and I fancy something to play with as well as to shoot some bunnies and foxes with. I've been looking at the various subsonic rounds that have come about more recently and I fancy having a go with one.

 

Smallest I can see working would be to low load a .270 Ren, which is a straight walled round based on the .22 Hornet case. Bullet options for that seem more limited, but I can cast a custom bullet if it would help. I'm not sure that would be a good choice but I have an action that size.

 

Next up is the .300AAC or Whisper. That one looks most common, and should be the easiest to load for.

 

After that there are a number of bigger ones from .338 right up to .510. I think just due to the bore size the .510 may not work out because of range certificate limits and police opinion. Firing a 750gr bullet it still only carries about the same energy as my .22-250, but they probably wouldn't read that far before saying no anyway! It's a big old bullet so backstop choice could start to become an issue. I'd imagine it would bounce some distance even when tumbling?! It would also require a bigger, more expensive action so that puts me off too.

 

Does anyone have any experience with the calibres listed or anything similar? Good or bad I'd appreciate your thoughts?! I don't want to just down load a .223 or .308. It's easier to work with a case and barrel twist designed for that purpose.

 

Here are a few of them. Just the plain old .300 Whisper or Blackout looks to be the simple approach with some degree of practical use?

[1066]

How about a De Lisle carbine in .45ACP

[saddler]

A lot of standard pistol ammunition operates at, or can be made to operate at, subsonic speeds.

 

As has been stated above, .45ACP is a good option. Nice heavy bullets & readily available data/components.

Quite a few nice bullet mold designs too - as at subsonic speeds a cast lead bullet would be my first choice to use

[Gonk]

I know someone who takes foxes with blackout in an AR15 type rifle. He seems to do well with it.

[njc110381]

The trouble with pistol rounds is that they have a pretty poor down range performance. With these rounds which are adapted to use rifle type bullets they work better at longer ranges. I would like to try them at targets too at several hundred yards so that really counts out the likes of the .45. The .300BLK for example, firing a 240gr match bullet, still has around half of it's muzzle energy at 1000 yards.

 

I do have a .45-70 which fires a 405gr cast bullet at around 950fps as I load it. But at range that dies off pretty fast. At 500 yards it drops nine feet more than a 240gr BLK target round when starting off at the same speed. At 200 yards it has nearly 6" more drop with a 100 yard zero.

 

For living targets the .45 makes more sense as the lack of expansion at low velocities is more than made up for by the huge bullet. But for targets it's not so good.

 

Gonk - I don't suppose you know what ammunition your mate uses for foxes do you? I assume it's a lighter sonic round like a 110gr V-Max? Although low velocity expanding ammo is being developed for these rounds now, I'm not sure how easy it is to get hold of in the UK?

[Gonk]

I will find out for you mate

[Ultrastu]

My pal uses subs in . 308 from his ruger precision .

They seam pretty accurate and VERY quiet with his big can on the front ..

His old savage .308 wouldnt shoot the same bullet for toffee

[Stonepark]

If I was going to play with something other than my 308.....

 

1) 338 spectre

2) 338 Whisper 2

3) 300 blk

4) 300 whisper

[saddler]

Been contemplating developing a subsonic load for my 6.8

Need to read up on suitable bullets

Mate has a mold for the 6.8 that casts a 135gr solid lead projectile. May have to try them; should be ideal as they'll be good for slow speeds & also as a DIY made item they'll be exceedingly cheap & no logistics chain to worry about

[njc110381]

If I end up getting one I think I'll be casting for it. It makes shooting so cheap and I've got a lot of lead here that I stocked up on when I bought my .45-70. I've got more type than I can carry too which will come in handy, although I don't use it in the .45. Just plain old roofing lead shoots just fine at the speed/pressure I'm running it.

 

The only thing niggling me at the moment is that all the Lee moulds seem to be gas check types. I don't think they're needed for subs.

[saddler]

No need for gas checks at subsonic speeds.

Shoot as cast (after lubing & sizing)

[Harnser]

Down loaded .303 British used to be very popular at my old shooting club .

 

Harnser

[Bangbangman]

The .45 pistol bullets don't have great ballistic coefficient, limiting practical effective range. I have cast .45 hollow-point but discarded the idea of hunting with them (big meplat does the job anyway.) They do look like their nickname "the flying ashtray"!

 

 

I've played with .308Win subs: Hornady 180gr RN SP was the bullet I chose (easier to stabilise than longer boat-tail profiles). Accuracy was OK for close range (<70yd) but I never used them on live quarry.

 

More recently I've been developing a 300Whisper/Blackout load using a 240gr cast bullet (NOEmold). This produces about 600ftlb.

 

 

 

Long, slow boolit will rely on tumble and shank breakage for wound channel but risks "ice pick" punch-throughs if it remains stable in tissue:

 

 

I've only done initial tests to check bullet is stable enough not to clip moderator and to check velocity (working downward in charge!) Accuracy may be a problem; I have rounds loaded but not tested yet.

 

The "heavy-and-slow cast" approach may not be as effective for live targets as the newer subsonic expanding options (which are pricey). I believe there are some of these in the UK: Facebook group for 300Blackout in UK has featured these. Bullet manufacturers are beginning to produce bullets catering for subsonic expansion in .30 Cal: 194grn "maximum expansion" from EPA and Lehigh Defense offer a "controlled-fracturing" 168gr round (I don't know if bullets available for Reloading.)

Sierra's #2124 135gr Varminter was made with 300Blk in mind (though not specifically subsonic)

I'm going to stick with cast for now. I think I've got a .30 Cal hollow-point mold somewhere. I'm sure the right alloy would allow subsonic expansion but BC would still be a compromise and I'm sure it would have to be single-fed in my "AR".

 

This YouTube chap shows his load dev for 240gr SMK in 300Blk. Reasonable accuracy achieved, given the limited expected range at which quarry might be taken but big SMK hardly frangible!

 

https://youtu.be/29QFrw37jKQ

 

I'm not yet sure whether centrefire subs offer much of a practical advantage over a .22LR on live targets. I've not had a problem headshooting fox with .22LR so may be I'm trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist. Ricochet risk will always be a concern with heavy, slow, non-frangible projectiles so a good backstop, as always, is crucial.

 

Please share your experience/findings.

[Bangbangman]

Incidentally, my choice of .300Blk was based on the fact that I only needed a new upper assembly and it would be perfect for Urban Contact/FIBUA competition. I also had a ton of.223 brass for easy conversion (not all .223/5.56x45 brass is suitable due to sidewall thickness variations.)

[saddler]

Looked into 300 Whisper as an option for one of my CAMs too....as I'd only need an AR barrel to convert the donor rifle from 5.56

 

Will see how the 6.8 project deveops first as not wanting to get a variation & source a barrel.

[figgy]

What subsonic round is it the snipers use. Remember reading how accurate it was and how far it worked down range. IIRC it was a modified 9mm bullet that had more weight than standard bullets.

Edited June 6, 2017 by figgy

[Dekers]

.............................I fancy something to play with as well as to shoot some bunnies and foxes with. I've been looking at the various subsonic rounds that have come about more recently and I fancy having a go with one.................

 

 

Why not, but, for the majority of people, in what I expect are the vast majority of situations they serve no useful purpose. A bit like the 700ft lb Air Rifle.

 

Bit like saying, well we spent a fortune developing the F-22 Raptor and making it he best Fighter in the world so how about we take it apart and fit a propeller and Merlin engine, should be a bit of fun and useful for something!

 

As I say, why not, if you fancy a bit of something to play with then have a go and enjoy yourself.

 

ATB!

 

[njc110381]

I couldn't agree more with that sentiment. For serious bunny bashing and foxes I have a range of guns that will work. I just like unusual things. I'm simply weighing up and justifying a new toy for myself.

 

I think with this round I can load a cast bullet, so given that it uses very little powder too and case life should be good it will be very cheap to shoot at the range. I did have a .38/.357 on my ticket but changed my mind because they are 1. hard to find moderators for and fit moderators to, and 2. down range accuracy isn't great. Our range is a 100 and 200 yard affair, very informal plinking at gongs and paper, bottles of water etc. The .357 would be good for the sub 100 yard messing about but 200 isn't going to work well. I currently use my .22lr or one of my centrefires, but that is either fairly boring or expensive!

 

I like to condition all of my guns for a use other than the range so as I don't have to meet the number of range visits demanded to justify a gun just for club use. Plus on my more hilly ground it would just be fun to use. I'd imagine it would be much better at distance than a .22lr and carry more energy for foxes whilst still being subsonic.

[Andy RV]

I'm using the 200gr Subsonic Lapua B416 bullet in my 308, accurate and packs a punch.