To FAC or not to FAC that is the question

[serrac]

Hi,

 

Wondering how you guys would resolve this little dilemma.

I have a permission to shoot vermin on a farm using an air rifle.

The farmer also said he was OK with me using a shotgun once I get my SGC

Living in Scotland, I like the idea of going co-terminus to have the air rifle and shotgun both on the same cert.

That would mean I would already have my FAC if I need a rimfire in the future - and would only need to manage/finance one certificate rather than three...

However when I previously mentioned applying for a FAC for a rifle to go after foxes he said he woudn't allow a rifle on the farm.

Now my dilemma is if I apply for a FAC slot for my air rifle and the FEO contacts him about it he might think I'm "at it".

I could talk to him but not sure if he would understand how a FAC air rifle is different from a rim/centrefire.

So how would you proceed?

Cheers

Mike

[kyska]

Just speak to the landowner. I'm not sure of the regulations up there, just apply for a S.1 air, but go and explain the benefits to the landowner.

 

It's a little odd a farmer won't allow a firearm to be used on a farm....

[kernel gadaffi]

Tell him your applying for FAC and SGC, but will not be using a rimfire or centrefire on his land, only a shotgun and air rifle.

[Dave-G]

I thought all air rifles had to be licensed in Scotland now anyway?

[clakk]

They do its a grey area ,but if the landowner wont allow centre/rimfire i,d make sure i discuss it with him first ,His land his permission hard to get very easy to lose atb

[Dave-G]

An FAC air rifle is still an air rifle - I'd have a natter about that with the farmer. After a year or so you could mention the rabbits are getting a bit wise to you so you need more range, by which time he'll have got to know if you are ok or not.

[Newbie to this]

I used to shoot a farm, where the farmer wouldn't allow anything to be shot other than sub 12 ftlb air rifles. So I would have a word with the farmer and see if he will allow an FAC air rifle before you do anything, don't want to lose that permission.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Newbie to this

[scotslad]

Are u wanting an fac air gun or just a normal airgun?

 

From wot i believe its 3 completely seperate tickets

I'm just about to renew mine so not seen the new paperwork yet involving airguns, but i was under the impression its a seperate ticket and not part of the FAC (althou at moment ur allowed to hold ur airguns if u have a sgc/fac)

So i think u can apply for a shotgun and airgun ticket at same time (or seperately) if ur not wanting an FAC airgun. (even if u get ur FAC u would not be allowed any rifles that u didn't have 'good reason for' and permission on ground to use them)

U can always apply for ur FAC at a future date if u need it.

 

I believe the paper work is lomst the same wether shotgunairgun or firearms so u are as well doing them all together and wee bit cheaper too.

 

With anything legal i'd phone basc up or speak to ur local polis firearms boy. Like i said i'm not 100% sure how the new airgun licence is being handled

Edited July 21, 2017 by scotslad

[Red-dot]

The FEO will contact the farmer and ask what you are allowed then they will visit the land to assess it suitability for your required calibre. They may ask for you to be mentored for a year or two.

[serrac]

"It's a little odd a farmer won't allow a firearm to be used on a farm.... "
Apparently this has been allowed in the past and the privilege was abused in some way.

 

"I thought all air rifles had to be licensed in Scotland now anyway?"
They do - the new AWC relates to <12ft/lb rifles & you still need S1 for anything more powerful.

I'd heard that it's possible to put a <12ft/lb air rifle on a FAC cert by declaring the serial number, though that gun would forever-after be considered as FAC

 

"His land his permission hard to get very easy to lose"
Very true - hence the dilemma.

 

"they will visit the land to assess it suitability for your required calibre"

Given that a rim/centrefire has been used on the farm at some time in the past I would have thought it would automatically be cleared for FAC air rifle.
I suppose it's possible someone might have been doing so on an open FAC.

"They may ask for you to be mentored for a year or two."
Really? Anybody know of instances of someone being required to be mentored with a FAC air rifle?

Given most of my airgun shooting is likely to be rats and feral pigeons around the farm buildings <12ft/lb is probably most appropriate anyway.

I was just thinking it would be nice (and cheaper) to get the FAC checks over and done with in conjunction with the SGC checks.

[SpringDon]

The best point on here is that permission is hard to get and easy to lose.

 

Respect the farmers rule and only use shotgun and air rifle. Join a club or find another permission to use rimfires then maybe,revisit the issue with him in a year.

[m3vert]

I am not sure what you currently have? SGC, FAC or AWC? You mention applying for SGC and FAC, if you currently have neither AND already have an air rifle (presuming you don't have air weapons license?) then you are breaking the law.

 

In my opinion if you are applying for FAC you will need to supply the Police with the area you intend to use it (unless you are asking for a deer caliber rifle and say you will use it for paid stalking). Therefore the Police are highly likely to contact the farmer, so regardless of what you want to do with the air rifle I guess you need to explain this to the land owner/farmer.

 

I have an air rifle but do not have a AWC, but because of my SGC I can legally own and use the air rifle until my co-term certificates expire then I will need to add the AWC!! Nonsense but that's the law. (its only a fiver I believe though) I am unaware of simply being able to add it to an FAC though? I would guess if you only have an FAC and not a SGC, then the same rules will apply as per the case for me and SGC!! So it wouldn't actually be "added" to your FAC but the law would allow you to own and use one until your FAC expired.

 

All that said, I am unsure what the law is on if you are now applying for FAC and or SGC? What I mention above was for those who had SGC and FAC BEFORE the air weapons certificate came into force. My guess is that anyone applying for FAC and SGC for the first time now, would not have that grace being offered to those in the past. The reason I guess that, is that if you currently only own an air rifle and do not have SGC or FAC, and don't already have an Air Weapons Certificate (or whatever its called) then you would be breaking the law!!

 

The above maybe wrong so please take advice from your shooting body, but that's my take on things!!

 

So guess that probably doesn't answer your question and is clear as mud, but yes you need to speak to your farmer lol

[Dekers]

"........and would only need to manage/finance one certificate rather than three..."

 

How does it work in Scotland then, a Coterminous is still 2 certificates (admittedly a bit cheaper) simply starting/ending at the same time in England (I have no idea why, I simply don't see why it shouldn't all be on one).

Edited July 24, 2017 by Dekers

[serrac]

Hi,

Don't worry, I do have an AWC!

 

"a Coterminous is still 2 certificates"
I wasn't aware that they still issued 2 certs with Coterm - but there are still obvious advantages to going that route where possible.

 

 

"I am unaware of simply being able to add it to an FAC though?"
Suppose you had a <12ft/lb air rifle you wanted to upgrade to FAC
You'd need a FAC with a slot for a FAC air rifle.
Then you'd need to apply the serial number for the <12 air rifle to the slot on the FAC before sending the gun off to the gunsmith to get it uprated to >12ft/lb
My plan was to do everything up to the point of sending said gun off to the gunsmith - I can't see plod chasing me up to make sure my gun was powerful enough...
I would potentially be limited to only using that gun on the land for which it'd shown good reason though and it might be harder to sell too.

 

To be honest the shotgun and <12ft/lb air rifle are sufficient for most of the shooting I'm ever likely to do on this particular farm.
I just liked the idea of getting the approval process for SGC and FAC under my belt in one go and only costing a little more than the FAC alone.

Probably the best advice I've had so far is to not strain my relationship with the farmer and lose the permission over this, so I've pretty much decided to put the FAC on the back burner until I have a genuine need for it.

Thanks everyone who replied for your inputs - appreciated :-)

 

MIke

[Newbie to this]

[Wingman]

I haven't come across much on my permission that can't be dealt with by a shotgun and legal limit air rifle. Just buy a moderated .410 for bunny's if you want something less than a 12 or 20..