Global Warming

[markm]

I am sure it has been done before (not done a search) but do you -

 

1) Believe it is true? If so with nature correct itself?

2) Think it is a way of getting more taxes from us?

3) Other opinions?

 

The planet has been around for billions of years, records only show for the last couple of hundred years, 20 years ago we were about to enter a new ice age which never happened.

[Axe]

I think global warming is a reality. I'm not sure the scientists have got the reasons right though. That said, we should also be concerned about the pollution we create. More and more vehicles hit the roads each year yet millions of acres of rain forests and woodlands are destroyed each year. The counter effect is not going to be good is it!

 

Nature will balance itself out, but will we like the outcome if we dont act now?

[henry d]

There was a good TV programme a month or two ago that de-bunked the CO2 theory because until the mid 1940`s temperatures were dropping globally when emmissions were going through the roof (no pun intended) for the past 70 or so years.

They then tried to find why the earth was heating up, which was not in dispute, and the thing that tracked the rise in temperature was, IIRC, an increase in solar activity(sun spots) which creates more clouds and therefore heat is retained.

 

It sounds more plausable to me too!

[gibby]

I've been told theories from my teacher which sure as hell make you think it is a load of ****.

 

1. The earth goes in and out of ice ages and hot spells and it just so happens that we are on the part of the cycle taking us to warmer climates.

 

2. It makes no difference what so ever if the Ice sheets melt as they are already in sea so sea level will not rise. It is only when the caps on top of rock melt that a change will be seen.

 

3. The CO2 that we are producing that is clogging up the atmoshpere is irelivent in the argument as the atmoshpere only comprises of less then 1% of C02 so change is neglagible.

 

4.Not as much C02 is being emmited as people say, each year 6 parts of CO2 per million parts pf atmshpere are emiited, again a very small number. The absorbance of carbon from the amazon rainforest takes this down to only 1.7 parts per million.

 

I will search my notes for a few more.

 

To me i don't beleive in the theory of global warming but am all for reducing pollution.

 

Gibby

[dunganick]

its mainly to do with the rise and fall of the sea temp. as its such a large mass, the lag time is massive, hense the C02 emissions dont match the temp.

 

However an ex student at my school is now a very succesful scientist or what ever the correct term is, on global warming and she has studied it and concludes, global warming is real, however (and this is the bit i like) its reached a point where any efforts to stop it will have no effect on the out come.

 

TBH untill america does something about so called global warming, whatever the rest of the world does will have little/no effect, and according to some points of view even if america did care and do something it would make no difference anyway.

[gibby]

its mainly to do with the rise and fall of the sea temp. as its such a large mass, the lag time is massive

 

Agreed that the sea does have a high specific heat index, but the lag time is only great in deep sea as temperatures of the sea rise and fall through out the year.

 

as its such a large mass, the lag time is massive, hense the C02 emissions dont match the temp.

 

If the temperature of the sea is rising now it is due to changes in CO2 hudreds of years ago, not from our production.

 

Gibby

[pin]

Planet, very big, made of rock, closer to the middle you get the squidgier it gets. Squidgyness caused by the fact that when the planet was created it was a molten fireball.

 

Over time this has cooled down and got a bit crusty, some time after that various forms of life began emerging. Some more time passes and here we are. The planet has cooled yet more and continues to cool internally. Surface of the planet has changed violently and subtlety for billions of years.

 

Christ 10,000 years ago there was a sheet of ice 3,500m thick over the Hudson river in the states.

 

In the last 50million years the temperature has dropped considerably.

 

It always fluctuated before we got here, it will again and long after we are gone it will continue.

 

It's utter ********, nothing we do will make the slightest bit of difference, the planet will heal itself and the balance will restore itself.

[dunganick]

its mainly to do with the rise and fall of the sea temp. as its such a large mass, the lag time is massive

 

Agreed that the sea does have a high specific heat index, but the lag time is not that great as temperatures of the sea rise and fall through out the year.

 

Gibby

 

 

I think the point of hte program on channel 4, did watch it and have it still recorded, was that the sea is one of the largest producers of C02 and that the sea has a lag time of aprox 800 years for C02 output, compaired to the relative 'so called global warming' so in this case it prooves that c02 is actually very little to do with 'global warming'

 

You have to appreciate that the sea is a much bigger mass than simply the surface, so the heat that fluctuates durring the year is only a tiny fraction of its entire volume, hense the massive lag time on the actual temp. of the sea.

 

The theory of an interglacial period is my fav one (the theory you suggest) i like it as it pretty much removes any human involvement from this change in climate, however its not been that long since our last ice age, enfact in geographical terms it was yesterday (as pin says 10,000 - 18,000 years ago) So im not sure how much water this theory holds.

[gibby]

was that the sea is one of the largest producers of C02

 

Completly true. I saw the same programme and facts did stick. Decaying leaf litter create more CO2 then we do, as do animals and volcanoes. We are an insignificant role in the changes in atmoshpere.

 

Gibby

[henry d]

Well thats it all sorted, I`m off out and I`m leaving the heating & lights on and the windows open............

[Lurch]

The manmade global warming nut jobs seem to ignore the facts that the sun is more active of late and that Mars also is seeing similar rates of warming to the Earth - exactly how my 4x4 caused that I'm not sure.

These are the same doom sayers that told us we were heading for an ice age just a couple decades ago.

[SNAKEBITE]

Well thats it all sorted, I`m off out and I`m leaving the heating & lights on and the windows open............

 

Well the money you burn doing that could heat a small country for a year

[Dr W]

Well thats it all sorted, I`m off out and I`m leaving the heating & lights on and the windows open............

 

Well the money you burn doing that could heat a small country for a year :blink:

 

It will do, he'll pay a shed load more in 'green' taxes which our govt will then give away in aid to some small country where the leaders will steal most of it and the people will be no better off.

[Oly]

There was a good TV programme a month or two ago that de-bunked the CO2 theory because until the mid 1940`s temperatures were dropping globally when emmissions were going through the roof (no pun intended) for the past 70 or so years.

They then tried to find why the earth was heating up, which was not in dispute, and the thing that tracked the rise in temperature was, IIRC, an increase in solar activity(sun spots) which creates more clouds and therefore heat is retained.

 

It sounds more plausable to me too!

 

 

OK, I work in Flood Risk Management - and this IS happening! Half the data the public get to see from both sides is **** and not accurate. The data on an unconvienante truth was misleading as well as inaccurate...and don't get me started on the TV programme mentioned above...notice how they missed off the most important data set, as well as the era when most data has been collected...THE LAST 30 YEARS!!

 

We do have very good records of the last ice age, inter-stadials etc etc and they show good trends...but we are now seriously deviating from those trends, and that directly links with the CO2 measured in the atmosphere from ice core sample to current day.

 

People can argue that the worlds been around for ages and that it's seen hotter/cooler times...BUT NOT WITH US ON IT!! If we want our species to survive we need to address this issue as it isn't going to go away. We ARE getting wetter warmer winters and we ARE getting hotter drier summers - look at the records we consistently break on the weather reports - FACT.

 

Besides...even if it isn't true...is it really worth the risk??? The risk of losing everything for generations to come just for the sake of energy saving light bulbs, turning your tap off when brushing your teeth, and choosing a car that does another 5mpg (or better still keeping your old one!).

 

I must admit, given previous ice age stories, my knowledge of the inaccuracies of modelling etc, I am still a little skeptical (getting less though!)...but for me it's simply not worth the risk of ignoring it. :blink:

[pin]

Nobody is saying it isn't happening, it is, it's just nothing to do with us.

 

I know there are accelerated plans for flood defences on the Thames estuary, yes the water levels are rising.

 

Nothing we do now, not one thing, will make the slightest bit of difference. Set in motion are climatic factors which will do as they will do with or without interference from us.

 

The sooner we start realising we don't own the planet and can't control it, the climate and its weather and accept we are ****** the better :blink:

 

The biggest risk to human kind right at the moment is a near earth object hitting us and that WILL be game over. We can't even scan 10% of the sky in anything like a useful way, we won't even know about it before its too late.

[gibby]

People can argue that the worlds been around for ages and that it's seen hotter/cooler times...BUT NOT WITH US ON IT!!

 

Do not agree with that. During the medievel times it was warm enough to have vineyards in this country.

 

Gibby

[Oly]

The CO2 data argues with you Pin. And again...even if you are skeptical that we can't alter the course of climate change...is it worth the risk to do nothing?!?

 

Re - big rock hitting earth...yes a risk, and considering I deal with risk daily I would say that's a darn big sky and a tiny little earth!

 

Sorry to do this, but I've said my piece, I deal with this sort of stuff daily so I could go on forever...I nearly didn't reply when I first saw this thread as I don't want to get drawn into it...so please accept my apologies but I'm now bowing out of this discussion.

 

PS - Gibby - I'm talking a lot hotter than a climate in which you can grow vines!!

[pin]

Re - big rock hitting earth...yes a risk, and considering I deal with risk daily I would say that's a darn big sky and a tiny little earth!

 

Its not if, its when. Its happened loads of times before and it will happen again, we are "overdue" one :blink:

[henry d]

People can argue that the worlds been around for ages and that it's seen hotter/cooler times...BUT NOT WITH US ON IT!!

 

Do not agree with that. During the medievel times it was warm enough to have vineyards in this country.

 

Gibby

 

 

.....and don`t forget that at Scara Brae(sp?) on Orkney I believe, they found middens full of fish bones from 4000 years ago and those fish are found in the Med etc. now !

[Lurch]

Greenland was called Greenland because it was lush grass not because it was icy and horrible.

If we believe the Chicken Lickens then the amount of cuts in CO2 emissions required to make the slightest positive impact would be vast, essentially we would need to be truly carbon neutral. This just isn't going to happen. So instead of ********* about fiddling around the edges and crippling the econoy with so called green taxes we should be looking at ways we can cope with the warming.

[invector]

Even the Romans had vineyards, in this country. I have to smile when they say it is the hottest since 1737, or some such date. So what caused the warming then? No cars etc.etc. What caused the ice age? Just outside Northampton, and many places all over the country, they have dug up bones of rhinoceros, elephant, bears, hyena etc. The country must have been a lot warmer then than it is now. What about the land bridge over the English Channel?

 

It might be warming but I honestly don't think we are to blame. People accept so-called green taxes and that's what it's all about. We're all going to look so silly when it starts to cool down.

[Mungler]

I am quite philosophical about this.

 

They say that we are creating a problem for our children. Well the stats actually indicate that the problem is going to be for our children's children and much later generations.

 

Accordingly, it's actually going to fall to our kids to sought out.

 

I have spoken sternly with my 5 year old and he has said that he looks forward to the challenge, responsibility and reward of safe guarding the planet for his children. Well that's a lie, he asked if he could stay up late and watch Transformers. I said he could provided he promised to live a truly carbon neutral existance, he agreed. So that's me out, job done.

 

Yours in logic.

 

Mungler

[pin]

Classic mate, vintage Mungler :blink:

[Cranfield]

As many experts tell you its happening and its our fault, there are others that will tell you the opposite.

One thing is certain, lots of people are making lots of money out of it .

 

We have had milder winters for the last 40 years, but I can't remember the last prolonged hot summer.

 

I support the climate cycle theory, things are changing as they have done for millions of years.

Can we do anything about it, apart from adapt, I believe the answer is ,"No".

[Highlander]

Of course it's bull. Mother earth has seen many parasites on her body and none bigger than human kind. She's outlived them all and will see us depart (in some manner yet to be decided or maybe it already has been depending upon your beliefs). The global climate has been changing since the earth formed and will no doubt continue to do so BUT for us to believe we can change it is simply typical human arrogance (remember King Canute???). The worlds governments will have us believe we can do something to change things and alter what's inevitable BUT that's just to keep the world economies growing to sustain governments. You'll spend more on fuel, on food, on housing etc etc and get taxed more and more BUT it won't make one penny worth of difference to the human race and mother earth couldn't care less anyway, she has her own agenda! :blink: