Ultrastu Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 So I've ummed and arred over buying a .410 for a while now . Well a nice single shot yildiz popped up in local shop for cheap money and in perfect condition .my biggest sticking point for a long time has been wether they are effective or not for decoying pigeons .so using gamebore 16 grm of no6 Today I found out for 1.1/2 hours in a hide with my dog . I shot very well with it going 6 birds for 8 shots . The birds didnt really decoy very well .most were floating over for a look . Very pleased with it . Gonna get a moderator for it next week Make it quieter . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasher Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 I know you would have heard it all before, but unless you are using subsonic cartridges why use anything larger than #7 shot simply because the fourten will never be more than a 35yrd calibre. Out of interest what choke is it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krugerandsmith Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 So I've ummed and arred over buying a .410 for a while now . Well a nice single shot yildiz popped up in local shop for cheap money and in perfect condition .my biggest sticking point for a long time has been wether they are effective or not for decoying pigeons .so using gamebore 16 grm of no6 Today I found out for 1.1/2 hours in a hide with my dog . I shot very well with it going 6 birds for 8 shots . The birds didnt really decoy very well .most were floating over for a look . Very pleased with it . Gonna get a moderator for it next week Make it quieter . Always annoyed me the price of the cartridges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted September 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 I presume it's a full choke . On card it holds a group with these carts out to about 25 yds max . Well they were no 6 shot .but gonna get some 19.5 grm no7.5 to try . There is no point in using subsonic carts . Why would I limit myself ? The gamebore were £8.30 a box . Which is more than my 20b carts . Still i did enjoy myself so it's largely irrelevant . I dont shoot to save money . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 (edited) Well done on your first outing. I have not seen one of those singles, I shoot a Yilditz O/U 410 and love it. Put the bird in the centre of the pattern and it will die. Yes, ok I accept that 40yrds is the maximum I would shoot at a bird ... I have killed a cock pheasant stone dead at 58 of my strides (6ft 1inch tall), I have also witnessed many many pricked birds flying on after being assaulted with 30 plus grams from a 12 gauge and the shooter assuming he/she missed. Shooting the 410 sensibly gives great satisfaction with many comments remarking that they did not believe I was shooting a 410. Yes, well done, continue to enjoy your new found toy. Try some Fiocchi # 8s, 18gr but nearer 19, Fiocchi I am told reduced the labelling because they found their loaders could guarantee an exact 19gr ...trade descriptions and all that. The #8s are in fact as near UK #7s as you can get and using full choke I find they kill cleanly if you do your bit. Have fun. Looks like the dog enjoyed the day as well....super picture. Edited September 22, 2017 by Walker570 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted September 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 It's a lovely little gun and I can see me keeping it a long time . And clearly its capable of killing birds . I am gonna try a smaller pellet .fill out the pattern a bit at range . Thanks walker .The dog is keener on getting pigeons than I am . He loves it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted September 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingman Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 Always annoyed me the price of the cartridges. It costs me an arm and a leg when my boy comes clay shooting with his Yildiz .410 bloody ridiculous price! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 Welcome to the club! As others have mentioned No7 and smaller gives a killing pattern in 3 inch for pigeons to 35 yards or so, shot sizes bigger than this are basically redundant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vampire Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 Never been good enough with a .410 on pigeon,different story on the rabbits plenty have fallen to the single shot,would love a double barrell, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted September 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 Why are the bigger shot sizes redundant .? Most carts available are in no6 And a fair few in no 5 also .. It seams the no 7.5 are hard to find . Why is this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 Larger shot sizes persist because that what those using 12 bore are used to and they stick with what they know or are sold by gun shop with little actual knowledge of how the 410 performs. All we can do is order No7 or No7.5 at every opportunity to get the feedback to the gun shops and manufacturers that is what is appropriate for the 410. Consider the issue of having a large pellet which is capable of penetration and killing at 60 yards (No5) when the pattern fails in a best case scenario at 30 yards with such a small payload? At full choke and assuming best case (and which most 410's are choked at full but is a theoretical maximum as at this choking the patterns are usually blown), with 3 inch 18g load the max effective range for game for different shot sizes assuming 1ftlb energy and 150 pellets in a 30 inch circle is as follows (and alongside what causes cartridge to become ineffective first): - No 5 30 yards - Pattern Limited No 6 34 yards - Pattern Limited No 6.5 38 yards - Pattern Limited No 7 40 yards - Pattern & Power Limited No 7.5 37 yards Power Limited No 8 30 yards Power Limited At a more realistic 1/4 choke (and blown full choke patterns can be worse than this) the following is also the best case: - No 5 24 yards Pattern Limited No 6 25 yards Pattern Limited No 6.5 30 yards Pattern Limited No 7 32 yards Pattern Limited No 7.5 37 yards Pattern & Power Limited No 8 30 yards Power Limited Given the above, for medium and small game, the cartridges which give the most range are No7 (pheasants/rabbits etc)or No7.5 (pigeon etc), with probably No 8 for Clays as at 40 yards this still has 199 and 156 pellets at full and quarter choke respectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepasty Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 I also got a 410 recently, a cracking old school hammer sxs... great fun to shoot with the extra challenges it brings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasher Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 Why are the bigger shot sizes redundant .? Most carts available are in no6 And a fair few in no 5 also .. It seams the no 7.5 are hard to find . Why is this ? Clay cartridges are the answer. I have been using Eley Trap 14g #7.5 lately (Only because I couldn't get any Fiocchi 3", or Eley Trap 3") and have been very impressed with them out to 30yds. I know Eley FourLongs are low on power, and hence the quietest, but the Traps are much faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted September 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 Larger shot sizes persist because that what those using 12 bore are used to and they stick with what they know or are sold by gun shop with little actual knowledge of how the 410 performs. All we can do is order No7 or No7.5 at every opportunity to get the feedback to the gun shops and manufacturers that is what is appropriate for the 410. Consider the issue of having a large pellet which is capable of penetration and killing at 60 yards (No5) when the pattern fails in a best case scenario at 30 yards with such a small payload? At full choke and assuming best case (and which most 410's are choked at full but is a theoretical maximum as at this choking the patterns are usually blown), with 3 inch 18g load the max effective range for game for different shot sizes assuming 1ftlb energy and 150 pellets in a 30 inch circle is as follows (and alongside what causes cartridge to become ineffective first): - No 5 30 yards - Pattern Limited No 6 34 yards - Pattern Limited No 6.5 38 yards - Pattern Limited No 7 40 yards - Pattern & Power Limited No 7.5 37 yards Power Limited No 8 30 yards Power Limited At a more realistic 1/4 choke (and blown full choke patterns can be worse than this) the following is also the best case: - No 5 24 yards Pattern Limited No 6 25 yards Pattern Limited No 6.5 30 yards Pattern Limited No 7 32 yards Pattern Limited No 7.5 37 yards Pattern & Power Limited No 8 30 yards Power Limited Given the above, for medium and small game, the cartridges which give the most range are No7 (pheasants/rabbits etc)or No7.5 (pigeon etc), with probably No 8 for Clays as at 40 yards this still has 199 and 156 pellets at full and quarter choke respectively. That is excellent info and very much appreciated. Thankyou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 .410s are a challenge and Stoneparks comments are accurate, i see .410s and subsonic s as a restriction on its capabilities where range is concerned on pigeons i would recommend reloading 7.5s in a half ounce and winchester cases and wads with A 300MP powder this as gave me the best patterns at the highest speeds, 1250fps with the lowest pressures, Remington cases with Ren Sp wad half oz 7.5 was the next best load again with 300MP The .410 with its small capacity can not afford the luxury of slower speeds if you are trying to create a genuine pattern of lethal shot at 40 yards. I have no experience of subsonic ammo in the .410 but imagine ranges will need to be reduced and a bigger shot size used to try and compensate. In the field i found the advantages the 3 inch and its heavier load gave to be slight and getting the faster load to pattern was the best option i found. I think you will enjoy making the .410 work i did and the sense of achievement when i got it working was worth the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 Why are the bigger shot sizes redundant .? Most carts available are in no6 And a fair few in no 5 also .. It seams the no 7.5 are hard to find . Why is this ? I have absolutely no problem in buying 3 inch 18gr Fiocchi #8s which are 7 to 71/2s UK. For non toxic and fibre I have to load my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 Larger shot sizes persist because that what those using 12 bore are used to and they stick with what they know or are sold by gun shop with little actual knowledge of how the 410 performs. All we can do is order No7 or No7.5 at every opportunity to get the feedback to the gun shops and manufacturers that is what is appropriate for the 410. Consider the issue of having a large pellet which is capable of penetration and killing at 60 yards (No5) when the pattern fails in a best case scenario at 30 yards with such a small payload? At full choke and assuming best case (and which most 410's are choked at full but is a theoretical maximum as at this choking the patterns are usually blown), with 3 inch 18g load the max effective range for game for different shot sizes assuming 1ftlb energy and 150 pellets in a 30 inch circle is as follows (and alongside what causes cartridge to become ineffective first): - No 5 30 yards - Pattern Limited No 6 34 yards - Pattern Limited No 6.5 38 yards - Pattern Limited No 7 40 yards - Pattern & Power Limited No 7.5 37 yards Power Limited No 8 30 yards Power Limited At a more realistic 1/4 choke (and blown full choke patterns can be worse than this) the following is also the best case: - No 5 24 yards Pattern Limited No 6 25 yards Pattern Limited No 6.5 30 yards Pattern Limited No 7 32 yards Pattern Limited No 7.5 37 yards Pattern & Power Limited No 8 30 yards Power Limited Given the above, for medium and small game, the cartridges which give the most range are No7 (pheasants/rabbits etc)or No7.5 (pigeon etc), with probably No 8 for Clays as at 40 yards this still has 199 and 156 pellets at full and quarter choke respectively. First class information and a good indication of why it is so important to pattern test your 410 and the cartridges you use. I shoot full and full in my Yilditz and have patterned the Fiocchis at 35 measure yards both for pattern and more importantly penetration and in MY shotgun they perform exceptionally well, producing a good even 30 inch pattern with the majority of shot within a 24 inch central circle. The differences in chokings will without doubt give different results. Easy to check, penetration I use tightly folded news paper soaked overnight about 12 inches square and one inch thick. The #8s from the Fiocchi shells fully pierce the paper, some just penetrating the surface of the ply backing. My ITX non toxic reloads and my fibre loads of uk#7s both fully penetrate and the ITX (#5s) go the depth of the shot into the ply. I emphasise it is important to take the time to check your own 410 and with different chokings. Well worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebarrels Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 .410 is quite an enjoyable gauge to use BB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimfireboy Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 I cut the choke off my .410 as the pattern was Terry Bull. Now it throws a much more even pattern. Not bothered about range because I only use it on rats and squirrels at fifteen to twenty yards odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasher Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 .410 is quite an enjoyable gauge to use BB I couldn't agree more. If I'm just out for a pleasure shoot my single .410 Husher is always my first choice as I hate ear defenders as they always seem to make me feel shut in, not only that but nobody knows just how many shots it takes me for the amount of birds in the bag! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 Full choke can be counter productive with .410s in some cases, if you are trying like me to get to 40 yards with the .410 on pigeon heavier loads with the pressures they create or speed they lose the longer range performance suffers. Increasing shot size looses you pellets staying with 7.5s you are on the limit and typically patterns are sub par lowering the shot charge to half oz and using A 300MP in the Winchester cases with the win wad the lower pressures it created showed positive results on the pattern plate and all at 1250 FPS helped achieve the up to 40 yard goal. Strange as it sounds i believe it would be harder to get effective 40 yard patterns of sufficiently lethal pellets in the heavier 3 inch loads regardless of choke, 3 inch could help with subsonic loading or non tox but with lead this was the best i found anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted September 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 All fantastic advice .Thanks The reason I went for a single barrel .410 without a full mod .Is that I belive that the barrel porting on Hushers rob too much velocity frombthe shot . No so much an issue on a 20 b or 12 b .but on a .410 we need all the help we can get .I would expect no 7.5 s at lower speeds would limit there range a lot .this is why I intend to add a moderator on my gun with no barrel porting . I'm willing to sacrifice some ultimate sound reduction infavor of killing ability . I never found my old .410 baikal hushpower to kill very well .I guess it was just restricted too much . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 Good reasoning there stu, i am no subsonic expert but think slower speed would necessitate bigger shot and here is where the 3 inch could potentially help, but i imagine regular subsonic users keep max range shorter than the 40 yard i want. I have watched videos on .410s and moderators they still seem quite loud but its hard to judge on videos. I am happy just plodding along with the full choked single it is cheap to run reloading and i am enjoying the sense of achievement it brings its not all about conformity or big bags for me, i like to be efficient want the best from what i have available and i have enjoyed the time spent with the .410 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted September 23, 2017 Report Share Posted September 23, 2017 (edited) I never found my old .410 baikal hushpower to kill very well .I guess it was just restricted too much . I picked off shelf a new baikal SxS, in a local gun shop to see how it felt. I think they just bored out a SxS drilling for 410, weighed a ton, barrels looked to be up to 1/4 thick walls and chokes were exceptionally tight, maybe 0.38. Put it back on shelf, Edited September 23, 2017 by Stonepark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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