motty Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Please, please, please. Somebody answer my question. If steel shot passes through a bird, how can that be bad? Can anyone also show me some of this 'deformed' lead that is found in a dead bird. I think you may find that lead pellets get deformed before they leave the gun barrel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 More to the point. There are a lot of guns out there that are not suitable for steel cartridges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Some guns aren't suitable for steel, but most are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted September 28, 2017 Report Share Posted September 28, 2017 Please, please, please. Somebody answer my question. If steel shot passes through a bird, how can that be bad? Can anyone also show me some of this 'deformed' lead that is found in a dead bird. I think you may find that lead pellets get deformed before they leave the gun barrel. I think you may be right some of the time but not in all instances Antimony content type of plating thickness of plating Buffer wading velocity choke style constriction and length structure of target species range all these play a factor deformed lead pellets can be found but less and less these days with the higher antimony shot modern shotgun ammunition tends to have, i believe the traditional Eley shot in Grand prix loads was low on.antimony but if this is the case today i do not know, typical 1100fps 1200fps is probably not fast enough for much if any deformity i think the best you can hope to see is these days Slightly misshapen pellets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roostshooter1 Posted September 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 lead does not deform once it hits a bird most people are getting this confused with energy lead carries its weight very well so it maintains a high energy when it impacts a bird hence the reason it kills well steel does not deform on impact either but does not carry its energy as well as lead if steel is passing straight through a bird then this is not a bad thing as it will leave more holes to bleed out of and do a far more efficient job that's my thoughts anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 (edited) thanks Gerry I did think about trying some eley as it does not state that iy has to be fibre want something forgiving as its a big 400 bird day with 8 guns so need a few shots most birds are 50 yard height average Should you agree that this is the maximum distance obtainable with an English lead No 5, then to match that performance with steel you'll need HP 3.5mms. Edit: Forgot the word, 'lead'. Edited September 29, 2017 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roostshooter1 Posted September 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 lead has a density of 11.340kg per m3 steel has a density of 7700 kg per m3 this is a difference of 3.640kg per m3 hence the reason why they recommend you go up shot sizes to equal the density of a pellet out from steel to lead but with increased shot size you get reduced pellet numbers per gr so this could increase the numbers of gaps in your patterns if using the same weight cart ie 32gr this is the reason for regular pattern testing to find the correct choke for the load I will cut open a 34gr steel cart and a 34 gr lead cart and compare pellet numbers to let people know ( if any body is interested ) ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 I think you need to check on some of your decimal points! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5x55SE Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 (edited) lead has a density of 11.340kg per m3 steel has a density of 7700 kg per m3 this is a difference of 3.640kg per m3 hence the reason why they recommend you go up shot sizes to equal the density of a pellet out from steel to lead but with increased shot size you get reduced pellet numbers per gr so this could increase the numbers of gaps in your patterns if using the same weight cart ie 32gr this is the reason for regular pattern testing to find the correct choke for the load I will cut open a 34gr steel cart and a 34 gr lead cart and compare pellet numbers to let people know ( if any body is interested ) ben Far to many shooters believe/relie on mathematics and equations in shooting may it be with Rifle or Shotgun. Get out in the wide world where you have permission and shoot. I 100% know fact along with many others 32grm of Steel 3's 4's even 5's ( head shot) will kill those driven Duck My personal choice would be RC Atomic 32grm Steel 4's and 3's or Gamebore Super Steel same weight shot size. I've seen hundreds and hundreds of Geese let alone Duck killed with those cartridges Edited September 29, 2017 by 6.5x55SE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 lead has a density of 11.340kg per m3 steel has a density of 7700 kg per m3 this is a difference of 3.640kg per m3 hence the reason why they recommend you go up shot sizes to equal the density of a pellet out from steel to lead but with increased shot size you get reduced pellet numbers per gr so this could increase the numbers of gaps in your patterns if using the same weight cart ie 32gr this is the reason for regular pattern testing to find the correct choke for the load I will cut open a 34gr steel cart and a 34 gr lead cart and compare pellet numbers to let people know ( if any body is interested ) ben Some of what you say is perfectly true; some not quite so. There's a good clue at Post #74. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandladdie Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 I cut open a 34grm steel and a 50grm lead ages ago. I can remember exact figures but I'm sure that there wasn't much difference in pellet count Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 Far to many shooters believe/relie on mathematics and equations in shooting may it be with Rifle or Shotgun. Get out in the wide world where you have permission and shoot. I 100% know fact along with many others 32grm of Steel 3's 4's even 5's ( head shot) will kill those driven Duck My personal choice would be RC Atomic 32grm Steel 4's and 3's or Gamebore Super Steel same weight shot size. I've seen hundreds and hundreds of Geese let alone Duck killed with those cartridges Could not agree more with your post here, Steel is far superior to its theoretical ballistics in the field the maths show steel at a huge disadvantage and i remember the sickening feeling looking at the charts in the shooting times when non tox came in thinking how were we ever going to kill geese with steel. Bismuth and ITM were the main shot types used on geese in the early days but using steel in ducks it started to register that it killed better than i thought, and i started reloading it with Blue dot and saw with these reloads it had potential as a goose killer and before long i just accepted it on how it worked not how it looked on any comparison charts in periodical shooting magazines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5x55SE Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 Could not agree more with your post here, Steel is far superior to its theoretical ballistics in the field the maths show steel at a huge disadvantage and i remember the sickening feeling looking at the charts in the shooting times when non tox came in thinking how were we ever going to kill geese with steel. Bismuth and ITM were the main shot types used on geese in the early days but using steel in ducks it started to register that it killed better than i thought, and i started reloading it with Blue dot and saw with these reloads it had potential as a goose killer and before long i just accepted it on how it worked not how it looked on any comparison charts in periodical shooting magazines. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edenman Posted September 29, 2017 Report Share Posted September 29, 2017 My one point on this is steel will kill much further than most of our abilities allow. Nothing wrong with steel at all. I use steel for 90% of all my shooting these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roostshooter1 Posted September 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 all the decimal points are in the correct place do your homework before commenting on mine please 6.5 I stand corrected and will put it down to my poor shooting ability Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roostshooter1 Posted September 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 have decided to go with rc atomic magnum 36gr 3s after shooting 4 brilliant mallard last night thanks for all the sort of advice guys ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.5x55SE Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 have decided to go with rc atomic magnum 36gr 3s after shooting 4 brilliant mallard last night thanks for all the sort of advice guys ben Top Man well done Ben 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 (edited) have decided to go with rc atomic magnum 36gr 3s after shooting 4 brilliant mallard last night thanks for all the sort of advice guys ben Well done. Sometimes a little bit of maths can be quite helpful, saving time and providing a reasonable assessment of field performance. Energy density for a lead #5 at 50 yards is c170 (Imperial units) and similarly that for steel #3 for the RC spec is the same so an approximately equal level of performance was on the cards. Enjoy your day. Edited September 30, 2017 by wymberley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted October 10, 2017 Report Share Posted October 10, 2017 for those nay saying with steel. it works. if you are that innexperienced with it. buy ITX10 and reload a bunch and shootit off. "lead-ish" performance, maybe go up one shotsize? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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