Applying for s1 FAC

[stevelondon2017]

I am in the process of applying for my first FAC and have been advised to put shotgun on their whilst applying as its quicker, easier and cheaper to do it all at once. Under the firearms section of the form I have put 12 bore and 20 bore. I have not really shot many before so do not know what I will eventually get so put down both.

 

As for ammunition, I don't have a clue about this. If I was to go shooting with the shotgun it would either be target shooting at Bisley which resumable solid slug, and/or clay pigeon shooting with my friend. 

 

My question is what 'ammunition' should I put down on this form to cover these types of shooting? Are there many variations of rounds? It would not be my primary shooting style but want to have it covered should I take it up a bit more in the future.

 

I look forward to your replies.

Thanks,

Steve

[Ultrastu]

Are you applying for a sec 1 or sec 2 shot gun .

If its a sec 2 .You just put. Shotgun and nothing in the  ammunition bit .

If its sec 1 you will have to state cal of the shot gun . But still nothing in the ammunition bit. Hope this helps 

[Newbie to this]

If you are applying for a section 1 shotgun you will need to provide good reason for owning one, but it sounds to me like they are advising you to apply for your FAC and SGC at the same time, I think it's about £2 or £3 more to do them both at once.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

How new to shooting are you?

You will not be allowed to use a Section 1 Shotgun for clay pigeon shooting, they are normally only allowed for vermin control and PSG.

[rbrowning2]

Nothing wrong with using a section 1 shotgun for clay shooting provided cpsa rules are followed and ground owner is happy to allow it but you must have your fac conditioned for gun to be used for clay pigeon shooting.

 

[walshie]

I think the OP might have misread the notes on the application form. You still use the one form, but you can apply for S1 and shotgun at the same time. The section for firearms and ammo required isn't for the shotguns (unless you specifically want a S1 shotgun). That bit is for S1 rifles and ammo required. 

The shotgun part of the application doesn't need any guns or ammo listed. 

Edited January 20, 2018 by walshie

[thepasty]

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

How new to shooting are you?

You will not be allowed to use a Section 1 Shotgun for clay pigeon shooting, they are normally only allowed for vermin control and PSG.

Mines conditioned for clays

[walshie]

If you can show good reason for a S1 shotgun, they are supposed to add the clay condition anyway. I still don't think that's what the OP meant.

Edited January 20, 2018 by walshie

[stevelondon2017]

Wow. I've never had such a response from any forum ever. Thanks for all your comments. Ill try and be a little clearer.

 

I am going mainly for FAC for s1 for rifle stuff. I am very familiar with firearms as in rifles ands pistols however not for shotgun. A couple of my friends have s2 shotguns for clay shooting (However they are also looking at going s1 route). I was advised to get shot gun added because as someone said, its only a couple of quid more if added together.

I am 'presuming' that a s1 shotgun is generally better than a s2 in respect of round capacity, solid slug (for target shotgun shooting which I would probably do more of rather than clay as I'm now a member of the NRA at Bisley and they do that there), etc. Or should I say 'more choice' of what shotgun you can get.

As I say I'm not immediately interested in the shotgun part but probably would dig into this certainly within the year so wanted it on there ready for when I do. If I can justify having the s1 shotgun on there (because of the target shooting at Bisley) is it not worth me adding it rather than a s2?

 

Thanks, Steve.

 

2 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

Are you applying for a sec 1 or sec 2 shot gun .

If its a sec 2 .You just put. Shotgun and nothing in the  ammunition bit .

If its sec 1 you will have to state cal of the shot gun . But still nothing in the ammunition bit. Hope this helps 

When you say the calibre, with shotguns would that just be 12 gauge or 20 gauge or is there more to it?

Edited January 20, 2018 by stevelondon2017

[Newbie to this]

3 minutes ago, stevelondon2017 said:

Wow. I've never had such a response from any forum ever. Thanks for all your comments. Ill try and be a little clearer.

 

I am going mainly for FAC for s1 for rifle stuff. I am very familiar with firearms as in rifles ands pistols however not for shotgun. A couple of my friends have s2 shotguns for clay shooting (However they are also looking at going s1 route). I was advised to get shot gun added because as someone said, its only a couple of quid more if added together.

I am 'presuming' that a s1 shotgun is generally better than a s2 in respect of round capacity, solid slug (for target shotgun shooting which I would probably do more of rather than clay as I'm now a member of the NRA at Bisley and they do that there), etc. 

As I say I'm not immediately interested in the shotgun part but probably would dig into this certainly within the year so wanted it on there ready for when I do. If I can justify having the s1 shotgun on there (because of the target shooting at Bisley) is it not worth me adding it rather than a s2?

 

Thanks, Steve.

 

When you say the calibre, with shotguns would that just be 12 gauge or 20 gauge or is there more to it?

Yes 12 gauge / 20 gauge etc would be the calibre, I would apply for a SGC at the same time as your FAC this is done on the same form as previously mentioned and add a section 1 shotgun to your list of guns to accuire on your FAC. 'If you don't ask you don't get' your FEO can only say yes or no, but you will need to show good reason for the section 1 shotgun. Which by the sounds of things you have.

Hope it all goes well 

[Lord v]

If you apply for a sec 1 shotgun and sec 1 firearms you won't actually get a sec 2.

Which is the whole point in the dual application. 

You need to apply for both. 

6 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

If I can justify having the s1 shotgun on there (because of the target shooting at Bisley) is it not worth me adding it rather than a s2?

 

[stevelondon2017]

7 minutes ago, Lord v said:

If you apply for a sec 1 shotgun and sec 1 firearms you won't actually get a sec 2.

Which is the whole point in the dual application. 

You need to apply for both. 

Oh right. So if only apply for and get accepted for a s1 (super duper shotgun which can be semi auto, shorter and hold more rounds) I wouldn't be able to get a s2 (2+1 full length etc)? Sounds a little odd. Like doing a full manual driving test but then not being able to drive an automatic. Or have I misunderstood?

 

12 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Yes 12 gauge / 20 gauge etc would be the calibre, I would apply for a SGC at the same time as your FAC this is done on the same form as previously mentioned and add a section 1 shotgun to your list of guns to accuire on your FAC. 'If you don't ask you don't get' your FEO can only say yes or no, but you will need to show good reason for the section 1 shotgun. Which by the sounds of things you have.

Hope it all goes well 

Excellent. Thanks for clearing that up. Im pretty fearful of looking like a right gun freak with all these guns on the 'to acquire' list So far I have a 22LR for small range practise, 2 bigger calibre ones for trips to Bisley (however I only intend on getting one bigger one, just not sure with cal. yet) on the long ranges and now looks like a s1 shotgun and an SGC. Going to think I'm a nutter. :-|

 

Do you think its wise doing all that or maybe leave off the shotguns for now?

Edited January 20, 2018 by stevelondon2017

[Lord v]

As I understand it yes. Also be aware that there are significant restrictions on sharing S1 firearms with others that don't exist for section 2. 

Also, you can get semi autos on sec 2....

[Lord v]

There are two boxes on top of form 201 to state exactly what you are applying for. 

You will need to tick both. 

If you don't want a sec 2 then don't apply for one. 

If you have good reason it doesn't matter what they personally think. (As long as you aren't demonstrably mad or otherwise prohibited). 

Edited January 20, 2018 by Lord v

[stevelondon2017]

6 hours ago, J D Hunter said:

You will not get a shorter barrel because it is section 1, minimum barrel and overall length still apply.

Thank you very much. Think I've got it now.

 

One point that I saw on a youtube explanation was that a s2 must have a barrel length minimum 24" and overall length of 40" whereas a s1 .... don't worry, just rewatched it... he was talking about low capacity s1 shotguns which is min 12" and overall of 24". My bad.

6 hours ago, J D Hunter said:

You will be limited as to where you can use a Sec1 and for what purpose. I would still apply for Sec2 licence.

Even if you agree and only use the s2 equivalent, say 2+1 rounds instead of filling it up?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

7 hours ago, stevelondon2017 said:

Even if you agree and only use the s2 equivalent, say 2+1 rounds instead of filling it up?

You will still be using a Section 1 Firearm, I would check with any ground in advance to see whether they are happy for you to turn up with a Section 1 Firearm for their clay pigeon shoot.

[scotslad]

With a shotgun ticket (unless it has changed massively, have to admit only renewed mine last Oct but forgotten the form already) there is no restriction on how many guns u can own or wot calibre.

It's a far simplier and more common sense ticket than an FAC, esp when it comes to buying or selling guns

U also don't need a good reason to posses a shotgun, unlike for a rifle/sec 1

[Ultrastu]

Personally I'd avoid a fac shotty .

More hassle than its worth imo.

Just get a sec 2 ticket for your shotgun .And a sec1 for your rifle .

If at a later date you feel you must have a fac shotgun. Add it to your sec1 ticket .with a simple variation .

 

[Breastman]

There's a fair old mix of terminology in that little lot which I think is what has lead to the confusion.

If I've read your original post right you were applying for an FAC (Firearms Certificate) and were told that you might as well apply for a SGC (Shotgun Certificate) at the same time? Yes, you might as well do this if you think you'll want to get into shotgun shooting, as it is cheaper than applying for both separately.

If you don't plan on shooting Practical Shotgun (PSG)/Target Shotgun then there's little advantage in buying/applying for an FAC (S1) shotgun. Although its better having the OPTION to use the extra capacity for other things i.e. pest control, S1 guns are harder to sell as there is a smaller market for them and if you buy one that is not suitable for PSG then your market is tiny, and there are a LOT of shotguns that aren't suitable for PSG - despite shonky RFDs trying to sell them as such or clueless hacks in Gun Mart advertising them for PSG.

As mentioned FAC shotguns require a 'good reason' to possess and that does not include only clay pigeon shooting, although you can also do that with them providing A/ You get the condition added to your FAC B/ The ground you're using allows FAC/S1 shotguns. You/the ground do not need any special clearance (other than the condition on the certificate) to use them with 'normal' clay cartridges. It is different when using solid slug ammunition but I can't imagine you'd get many clays with that!

You don't need to apply for any shotgun ammo on either certificate apart from solid slug which you would apply for on the FAC and again require a good reason to do so - PSG. 300 is the norm.

 

 

[stevelondon2017]

10 hours ago, Breastman said:

There's a fair old mix of terminology in that little lot which I think is what has lead to the confusion.

If I've read your original post right you were applying for an FAC (Firearms Certificate) and were told that you might as well apply for a SGC (Shotgun Certificate) at the same time? Yes, you might as well do this if you think you'll want to get into shotgun shooting, as it is cheaper than applying for both separately.

If you don't plan on shooting Practical Shotgun (PSG)/Target Shotgun then there's little advantage in buying/applying for an FAC (S1) shotgun. Although its better having the OPTION to use the extra capacity for other things i.e. pest control, S1 guns are harder to sell as there is a smaller market for them and if you buy one that is not suitable for PSG then your market is tiny, and there are a LOT of shotguns that aren't suitable for PSG - despite shonky RFDs trying to sell them as such or clueless hacks in Gun Mart advertising them for PSG.

As mentioned FAC shotguns require a 'good reason' to possess and that does not include only clay pigeon shooting, although you can also do that with them providing A/ You get the condition added to your FAC B/ The ground you're using allows FAC/S1 shotguns. You/the ground do not need any special clearance (other than the condition on the certificate) to use them with 'normal' clay cartridges. It is different when using solid slug ammunition but I can't imagine you'd get many clays with that!

You don't need to apply for any shotgun ammo on either certificate apart from solid slug which you would apply for on the FAC and again require a good reason to do so - PSG. 300 is the norm.

 

 

Excellent. Thanks for the breakdown.

 

So am I right in thinking (as I may want to go for target shooting shotgun in the future) to apply for my rifles and s1 shotgun under FAC, apply for the standard SGC at the same time, and then under ammunition put my rifle ammo plus solid slugs, say PSG300.

 

Sound about right?

2 questions... do I need to specify anything on the FAC part about the s1 shotgun or just something like '12 gauge shotgun' or '20 gauge shotgun'?

Also what ammo should I put down for this as I say, I'm not into it at the moment so don't know whats used for it.

Thanks, Steve

[Breastman]

Some forces can be 'funny' about S1 shotguns/solid slug and unless you are a member of a club that shoots PSG/TSG, or at least a member of the UKPSA/NRA you may have trouble getting them. There is of course no harm in asking but be prepared to have more justification/reasons at the ready than you would expect a normal S1 firearm.

 

Again, its a postcode lottery to the information you will be requested to supply. Some forces just ask for the information required by law i.e. calibre/bore, firearm type and what you will be using it for/your 'good reason'. So it would be 12bore - multi-shot shotgun - Target shooting at XYZ club - club address/secretary details.

 

Other forces demand that you specify the action type as well (e.g. self-loading/pump-action etc) so be prepared to have to make a choice during the application. If say you chose self-loading, but you later decide you want to get a pump-action instead, you can get this changed free of charge, however depending on how busy/efficient your force is it may be a load of hassle if they take a long time.

 

As mentioned above, if you're not a member of a club that shoots PSG/TSG and/or a member of the UKPSA/NRA who organise competitions you may struggle to get the S1 shotgun. The only ammunition you need to request is solid slug. 250-300 is the norm for PSG requirements.