Buying firearm abroad.

[stevelondon2017]

Hi. I’ve recently acquired my FAC and have already acquired a Tippman Arms M4 22LR but looking at a Ruger Enhanced Precision 308 for my big one. Over here they retail for almost £1900 but obviously in the states it’s almost half. My question is this...

1. Can I buy this during a trip to the US and bring it back?

2. What taxes would I have to pay to bring it in with me?

3. Can I also bring .308 ammo back with me also?

I look forward to your replies. Thanks in advance. 

Steve. 

[jasper682]

interested in the replies too . off to the states later on in year with shotgun cert in hand.

[Walker570]

Firstly I doubt you will be able to buy one right now as almost everywhere they are tight on background checks and first off your not a native so instant refusal.  20yrs ago it was no problem but now you need an export license to start with $250 . Add to this a handling charge by the airline, then a customs check when you fly in. These days certainly at Stansted even if coming from the EU you are escorted with the rifle to customs. Present purchase invoice and they will they add VAT and import duty(last time I looked it was 12%).  I used to import custom rifles and then it was worthwhile. Today it starts to get expensive.

If you still want to import a rifle then easy way is to have a company over there do it for you as they know how to obtain the export license to start with. I used Worldwide Sports Network Inc 25yrs ago, so don't know if they are still in business. They were first class at the job and also sold firearms as well.

Edited March 3, 2018 by Walker570

[stevelondon2017]

Oh. ? I assumed you wouldn’t need an export licence if you’re bringing it home yourself. I remember reading somewhere that a guy did exactly what I mentioned and the only ‘check’ they did was asking “are you allowed to have this in the UK?” A reply of “yes” was followed by... “oh, that’ll be $$$$ please. Cash or card?” Lol. However I don’t know how long ago that was. 

[Walker570]

I know that people like Brownells and Midway will not now ship to the UK. The export license used to be $50 and takes a bit of paperwork.  I may be wrong, but I know things have changed certainly with the purchase side with rifles in particular.  I'll sort the e mail details of a shop I know in Austin and you can speak with them. They might be able to help.

Customs will certainly charge you import and VAT. 

Just checked my old paperwork ..info@mcbridesguns.com   If in Texas they are a very good place to visit. Always helpful. 

Ask if you would be allowed to buy a rifle and do they know anything about transferring through US customs.

 

Hope this helps and I'm not being too negative, but knowing US Customs they do not take prisoners if you don't have the right paperwork etc.

Edited March 3, 2018 by Walker570

[stevelondon2017]

Thank you. I really appreciate that. I’ll contact that email address and see what they can advise me. I’ll also contact US customs and ask them. 

 

Thanks. 

[Delboysparky]

42 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Firstly I doubt you will be able to buy one right now as almost everywhere they are tight on background checks and first off your not a native so instant refusal.  20yrs ago it was no problem but now you need an export license to start with $250 . Add to this a handling charge by the airline, then a customs check when you fly in. These days certainly at Stansted even if coming from the EU you are escorted with the rifle to customs. Present purchase invoice and they will they add VAT and import duty(last time I looked it was 12%).  I used to import custom rifles and then it was worthwhile. Today it starts to get expensive.

If you still want to import a rifle then easy way is to have a company over there do it for you as they know how to obtain the export license to start with. I used Worldwide Sports Network Inc 25yrs ago, so don't know if they are still in business. They were first class at the job and also sold firearms as well.

You don’t need to be a US national to obtain firearms. Plenty of Brits over there who own firearms. 

Cant fail a US background check if you have no US history. 

Edited March 3, 2018 by Delboysparky

[saddler]

48 minutes ago, Delboysparky said:

You don’t need to be a US national to obtain firearms. Plenty of Brits over there who own firearms. 

Cant fail a US background check if you have no US history. 

Of course you DON'T but MOST of the USA has individual State-wide requirements - i.e. you NEED to prove permanent residence in the State in which you wish to make the purchase.
The RIGHT to buy guns in the USA is for U.S. residents, not tourists/illegal immigrants/etc.
You CAN fail a US background check as IF you are NOT originally born in the USA they can/will do checks in your place of origin.

1 hour ago, stevelondon2017 said:

Hi. I’ve recently acquired my FAC and have already acquired a Tippman Arms M4 22LR but looking at a Ruger Enhanced Precision 308 for my big one. Over here they retail for almost £1900 but obviously in the states it’s almost half. My question is this...

1. Can I buy this during a trip to the US NO and bring it back? & NO

2. What taxes would I have to pay to bring it in with me?
UK side = VAT & import duty
US side = around 5 to 10 years in Federal B&B = not really a "tax", but I reckon it would be taxing in other ways

3. Can I also bring .308 ammo back with me also?
NO

48 minutes ago, Delboysparky said:

 

ANYONE wanting to EXPORT from the USA needs to have an EXPORT PERMIT

Read up in the US ITAR rules. They are very complex, and worth further legal advice/study - as falling foul of them WILL get you in big trouble before you know whats happening.
There are a few specialist US FFL's who DO export from the USA. It is NOT cheap, but it is easy once you find such an FFL.
Expect their fees, plus the ITAR processing fee to make up for a good chunk of the price "difference (saving)" between the US & UK = then when in the UK you need to factor in VAT/Duty - and Proof House fees too if it's a gun you plan to later sell on as US proof is not recognised in the UK
IF you've jumped through all the above hoops you MAY have a small saving in the UK price, IF you are lucky; not discounting the idea, but for mass produced items, not a huge point unless it is a long since discontinued model or it has other extra "value" (markings/caliber/previous owner, etc).

That's the bad news.

The good news is that you CAN bring in some accessories; most reloading dies/presses, reloading tools, bipods, magazines that hold no more than 10 cartridges, some scopes (but nothing with a military use as defined by ITAR)
Shotgun cartridge components like wads and un-primed shotgun hulls are exempt from ITAR  - but not live ammo!

Read up on ITAR

1 hour ago, Walker570 said:

Firstly I doubt you will be able to buy one right now as almost everywhere they are tight on background checks and first off your not a native so instant refusal.  20yrs ago it was no problem but now you need an export license to start with $250 . Add to this a handling charge by the airline, then a customs check when you fly in. These days certainly at Stansted even if coming from the EU you are escorted with the rifle to customs. Present purchase invoice and they will they add VAT and import duty(last time I looked it was 12%).  I used to import custom rifles and then it was worthwhile. Today it starts to get expensive.

If you still want to import a rifle then easy way is to have a company over there do it for you as they know how to obtain the export license to start with. I used Worldwide Sports Network Inc 25yrs ago, so don't know if they are still in business. They were first class at the job and also sold firearms as well.

You were charged VAT & Duty on EU imports??

Edited March 3, 2018 by saddler

[Donkey]

And if you were given a gun by a US resident as a gift

[Lord v]

It's not worth it. Not unless your dropping serious dollar on a custom job. 

As saddler points out - read up on ITAR. The paperwork is a serious ball ache with very draconian punishment for even the smallest slip up. Most places just won't even bother. 

And that's before you get onto the wonderful world of tax and import duties. 

I'm back and forth to the US quite frequently and hoped to pick up a bargain at some point.... Not going to happen.

[Walker570]

No, I wasn't charged from the EU BUT arriving with my rifle/s at Stanstead they were brought from the plane by security and they took them and me through cistoms who just checked my FAC/Passport.  So if coming in from the USA I would assume the same procedure so they will see the rifle was purchased in the US and will then add VAT and import duty accordingly.

Back in the 80's I could buy rifles and shotguns openly at the gun stores no problem but handguns no. I brought two back to the UK with me no problem and was not charged VAT or import duty although I declared them, I think because I had them in the US for five or six years previous....don't really know, customs around the world are a law unto themselves and not to be messed with.

I have e mailed a friend in the USA to see if he can shine any light on the situation for us.

As said above it is a minefield and I considered the $100 handling fee I paid back in the late 80s well spent.  That is probably a lot more now, at least it covered more than one rifle. It was as if you wanted to export an Exocet missile !!!!!!  One would have thought they would want to export their US made goods.

 

Edited March 3, 2018 by Walker570

[Delboysparky]

1 hour ago, saddler said:

Of course you DON'T but MOST of the USA has individual State-wide requirements - i.e. you NEED to prove permanent residence in the State in which you wish to make the purchase.
The RIGHT to buy guns in the USA is for U.S. residents, not tourists/illegal immigrants/etc.
You CAN fail a US background check as IF you are NOT originally born in the USA they can/will do checks in your place of origin

Not in my experience. Plus the Home Office won’t disclose many offences to foreign governments. 

[saddler]

52 minutes ago, Donkey said:

And if you were given a gun by a US resident as a gift

I recall reading somewhere that it was once legal for a US citizen to give the gift of a firearm to a British citizen. I think the "gift" had to be physically exported by the US citizen to the UK.

The way my memory works, it may be something I read up to 30+ years ago...and NO idea IF that ruling still exists as a lot of new US laws (ITAR) have come into play on the US Statute books, due to the Clinton/Obama years and their anti-gun policies.
 

[walshie]

27 minutes ago, Delboysparky said:

Not in my experience. Plus the Home Office won’t disclose many offences to foreign governments. 

The Americans have access to all of our systems so it's not a case of the H.O having to divulge anything. That's how they decide to give you a visa or not. Immigration told a friend of mine what he had been convicted of a long, long time ago. And at least nowadays you have to be a permanent resident of the U.S to buy or own a gun there. Not sure of this applies to shotguns and rifles, but definitely handguns. 

Edited March 3, 2018 by walshie

[Delboysparky]

2 minutes ago, walshie said:

The Americans have access to all of our systems so it's not a case of the H.O having to divulge anything. That's how they decide to give you a visa or not. Immigration told a friend of mine what he had been convicted of a long, long time ago. And at least nowadays you have to be a permanent resident of the U.S to buy or own a gun there. Not sure of this applies to shotguns and rifles, but definitely handguns. 

No they don’t have access to all the U.K. systems, regardless of what you are told there is a disclosure system where requests are reviewed.

 

[Donkey]

I seem to recall the person gifting the gun has to accompany you with the gun to the airport to check it in

when you land in the uk you collect the gun from customs where it is transferred onto your certificate

you will still be eligible to pay duty on the gun

you can carry 5kilo of ammo but has to be locked in a box and in the hold

if you look on the BA website it has a section on taking firearms abroad there is a charge

 

[Walker570]

I know that easyjet let me fly to Slovenia cheaper than my rifle, so BA will want a handout as well.  At least £60 which is what easyjet charge.  It all adds up even if you can legally acquire and bring one back.  Personally, unless it was a very special piece, then I would think these days it is a non starter and not going to improve.

[Newbie to this]

There was another thread running on this, here is a link

https://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/369721-importing-from-the-usa/?tab=comments#comment-3378517

Ediit - Just checked and it is your thread anyway

Edited March 4, 2018 by Newbie to this

[stevelondon2017]

49 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

There was another thread running on this, here is a link

https://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/369721-importing-from-the-usa/?tab=comments#comment-3378517

Ediit - Just checked and it is your thread anyway

Lol. Yeah. That was aimed more and getting it sent to me rather then me physically going and bringing it back. 

[Walker570]

Just checked with a friend recent return from Texas on BA flight. He was charged £50 for his rifle but that was paid well in advance, but it has now gone up to £125 either way !!

[walshie]

To the OP, I'd be inclined to make my own inquiries with the relevant departments and take on board what has been said here by people who have actually done it. 

Edited March 4, 2018 by walshie

[Walker570]

Plus 1 walshie.  30yrs since I was involved but it can't have got any easier and just approaching the relevant department in the USA may get an answer but I found them reticent to even reply sometimes.  My contact in Texas came back and said he probably could only advise re purchase in Texas as all States have different rules and regs.

[phaedra1106]

As has been said above as a visitor (non-resident alien) you can't buy firearms in the USA.  You can have them exported to the UK but the export license can take up to 3 months to process and costs around $350.  There's also a per use charge and of course your agents handling charge, shipping, import duty, VAT etc. and of course the proof house fee.

Unless it's something extremely rare or a complete bargain there's no advantage in doing it for an off-the-shelf rifle.

Look for a Tikka TAC-A1, my 6.5 Creedmoor was only £1342, a friend just bought a .308 for £1450, it's a lot better made than the Ruger PR (I know as I have one in 6.5 Creedmoor).

Edited March 4, 2018 by phaedra1106

[Delboysparky]

2 hours ago, walshie said:

To the OP, I'd be inclined to make my own inquiries with the relevant departments and take on board what has been said here by people who have actually done it. 

I would agree with this, you don’t want to be getting on bother for listening to people who give duff advice

[CharlieT]

16 hours ago, Donkey said:

And if you were given a gun by a US resident as a gift

In the OP's situation the purchaser would be committing a federal offense punishable with a $5000 fine and up to 5 year prison sentence for lying when completing AFT form 4473.