THIS IS NOT A VALUATION POST but some help would be nice

[For4Bore]

hello all new here i have read the posts on the rules and this is not a valuation post however i do have a slight problem being able to research the value of my 1917 .410 mk3 SMLE lee enfield as far as i can see theres 2 for sale 1 on gunstar and 1 on gun trader both are not my rifle and both are wildly different in price, is there any other website i have missed so i can get some research done on my shotgun or possibly a friendly rfd who i could ask? (admins if this is still a grey area my apologies feel free to delete)

[Guest stevo]

Try here 

https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns/enfield-lee/bolt-action/410-gauge/180109205736019

[matone]

They were £25 from Elderkins in 1972,if that`s any help.

[Dave-G]

How very dare a non shooter who inherits a firearm come onto a site with many  people who use them and enquire about its value to help decide what he does with it. Dunno what the world is coming to - he'll want to how to clean it next.  

[For4Bore]

Thanks for the effort Stevo i have seen that one already but its nothing like my one thats is an ishapore enfield my one is not the only one close i have seen is on gunstar and thats a mk1 1914.

 

im sure 99% of this website are friendlier however as a person who does not use these sort of things often not a pleasant experience so far    

16 hours ago, Dave-G said:

How very dare a non shooter who inherits a firearm come onto a site with many  people who use them and enquire about its value to help decide what he does with it. Dunno what the world is coming to - he'll want to how to clean it next.  

i am a section 2 certificate holder and shoot every weekend 52 weeks a year 

[Dave-G]

16 hours ago, For4Bore said:

Thanks for the effort Stevo i have seen that one already but its nothing like my one thats is an ishapore enfield my one is not the only one close i have seen is on gunstar and thats a mk1 1914.

im sure 99% of this website are friendlier however as a person who does not use these sort of things often not a pleasant experience so far    

i am a section 2 certificate holder and shoot every weekend 52 weeks a year 

Hmm - looks like my whit(worth?) wasn't very transparent. 

[inthedark]

1 hour ago, For4Bore said:

 this is not a valuation post however                                                 i do have a slight problem being able to research the value of my 1917 .410 mk3 SMLE lee enfield

Make your mind up

And welcome to the forum, it's actually a great, friendly place with lots of knowledge (and a little crustiness now and then)

[hambone]

Welcome to the forum  some members just can't help themselves

[Dunkield]

You don't have to make a welcome post to start posting here - welcome to the forums

As you have read the house rules you are already in exclusive club of about 1% of our members 

[JJsDad]

Without a close examination to establish its condition nobody is going to be able to give you an accurate valuation, sight-unseen. A lot of surplus No 1 Rifles (SMLEs) & No 4s were just smooth-bored throughout without any attempt to leave any choke in; this smoothboring was done to get around firearms legislation. In the early 1980s as an RFD I could buy a pallet load of No 4 Rifles with 2 groove rifling for around £6.50 each. Smooth-bore it, re-cut the chamber and re-proof and sell it as a shotgun for a nice little profit. Trouble was, the pattern past 15 yrds was invariably awful. Its worth what someones prepared to pay for it; the re-enactment boys would probably pay more for a No 1 than somebody who wants a .410 in. for vermin control or pottering around. Ignore the frosty reception all forums have their self appointed sheriffs.

[For4Bore]

Thank you inthedark, hambone and Dunkield nice to see that potentially the FAO's checked hospitality on your visits Ha Ha.

JJsDad, all i know of this rifle is it was chambered sometime after 1939 to .410 more than likely used for pow or prison guards, as its a mk3 smle could i take a mk4 valuation and apply it to mine? obviously condition taken in to consideration.

[JJsDad]

I think you are getting mixed up with Marks (Mk) and Numbers (No:) of early British military rifles. If its dated 1917 its probably a No: 1 Mk 3 Rifle. I say probably, because there were 2 other rifles also on issue, the P14 and the P17 which were not Enfield rifles. If you look at the `Milsurps` website you should be able to identify exactly what you have. Altenatively stick a happy snap on here.  I would suggest an Enfield manufactured No 1 Mk 3, subject to condition, is worth more than a No 4. The later (No: 4) produced during WW2 were built throughout the Commonwealth when quantity of rifles produced per day was viewed more than quality. The term "wartime" finish was a polite way of covering up lack of quality control on material, surface finish, poor heat-treatment, accurate bedding of the fore-end, etc.

[Graham M]

I think you may find that it won't actually take a modern .410 cartridge as some of these older .410 conversions were made to shoot a cut-down .303 case converted to .410.

 

[For4Bore]

I took this from a quick google search of "a 1917 mk3 enfield" this is the same look of my rifle (im afraid i have no real way of posting a picture of mine) as u say i may be confusing the No vs the Mk i will confess not exactly my strong suit are lee enfield rifles so im guessing from what you have said JJsDad its a No1 mk3?

 

Graham M. I tested it last week with 2 1/2" furlong cartridges, seemed to work fine ejector claw didn't grip 1 shell very well but popped out easy enough when jimmy'd out with a penknife 

[JJsDad]

Rifle Short Magazine Lee Enfield (SMLE) No: 1. In your case a Mk 3. Have to dig my Enfield book out to tell you the difference between the preceding Mk 1 & 2.

I would suspect more desirable than a No: 4 or one of the Ishapore copies. Find yourself a WW 1 or 2 re-enactment group, probably get a more accurate value figure from them. Its not like valuing a modern shotgun; there is a pretty limited market for old ladies like that.

[For4Bore]

Thank you JJsDad you have been most helpful i will continue my quest to find out whats its rough value is, right now it sits pretty in my safe and more than likely will do so for the foreseeable future as its is a lovely looking gun and a bit of a novelty to me  something i can show off to friends atleast, thanks again for your help and to the others (well most of them) for the welcome.

[AYA117]

No1 Mk 3 on Gunstar.

https://www.gunstar.co.uk/enfield-smle-no-1-mark-111-410-bore-gauge-single-barrel/Shotguns/994763

[JJsDad]

There you go, splash out £995 and you can say say you have a matched pair !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AYA117]

Then you have to track down a double case for them 

[saddler]

1 hour ago, For4Bore said:

I took this from a quick google search of "a 1917 mk3 enfield" this is the same look of my rifle (im afraid i have no real way of posting a picture of mine) as u say i may be confusing the No vs the Mk i will confess not exactly my strong suit are lee enfield rifles so im guessing from what you have said JJsDad its a No1 mk3?

 

Graham M. I tested it last week with 2 1/2" furlong cartridges, seemed to work fine ejector claw didn't grip 1 shell very well but popped out easy enough when jimmy'd out with a penknife 

How many cartridges will the magazine hold? Sometimes this can be overlooked with older conversions.

I have a few similar ex-military smoothbored "rifles" - some in their original military chambering & one modified to .410
Been re-enacting on & off since the late 1980's. These things USED to be very very common, as it was easier to be granted a SGC for a smoothbore...and little was changed in the gun aside from the bore.
Then the '89 Act lead to the 2-shot rule, so the advantage of a smoothbore went out of the window & people went down the FAC route.

Value? Whatever someone will pay for it. 
Mine were £40 (Swede M96, 6.5x55), £100 (Finnish M91, 7.62x53R) & £120 (No.4 Lee Enfield - .410) - all within the last three or four years, only the latter from a non-dealer/only the latter was on SGC due to magazine capacity of the other shotguns.
IF the seller is asking substantially more than an unaltered rifle version, then almost zero chance of a sale being made. A few dealers seem to think these things are total one-off rarities & they then price them above what a de-activated version would fetch, not less...almost £1000 for the one linked above?? I'd wager that one being in stock for some decades to come!!

Edited March 19, 2018 by saddler

[buze]

3 hours ago, For4Bore said:

im sure 99% of this website are friendlier however as a person who does not use these sort of things often not a pleasant experience so far    

Hmmm, "nope" :-)

 

[For4Bore]

Hello Saddler, the magazine is pinned and welded in place and cannot be removed so magazine holds zero carts its just there for aesthetics, not sure if that can/will make any difference to the price of the rifle.

As for the one linked above i thought it wasn't the same as my rifle however after talking with JJsDad it seems it is just 3 years older, i dont think id pay £1000 for it personally hence why i was asking for people with any info on how i could find out what they generally go for.

if by end of the week i cant find any other relevant information i think ill just insure it for £400 i think £4 for every year it has been around seems fair Ha Ha.

Thanks again to all those who have helped.  

[matone]

8 hours ago, JJsDad said:

Without a close examination to establish its condition nobody is going to be able to give you an accurate valuation, sight-unseen. A lot of surplus No 1 Rifles (SMLEs) & No 4s were just smooth-bored throughout without any attempt to leave any choke in; this smoothboring was done to get around firearms legislation. In the early 1980s as an RFD I could buy a pallet load of No 4 Rifles with 2 groove rifling for around £6.50 each. Smooth-bore it, re-cut the chamber and re-proof and sell it as a shotgun for a nice little profit. Trouble was, the pattern past 15 yrds was invariably awful. Its worth what someones prepared to pay for it; the re-enactment boys would probably pay more for a No 1 than somebody who wants a .410 in. for vermin control or pottering around. Ignore the frosty reception all forums have their self appointed sheriffs.

So even at £25 there was a decent profit to be had back then ! Wonder how many were converted in the 70/80`s ?

Always seemed a shame to me ......

[JJsDad]

9 hours ago, matone said:

So even at £25 there was a decent profit to be had back then ! Wonder how many were converted in the 70/80`s ?

Always seemed a shame to me ......

The real earner at the time was to de-act them. Then they could be sold to anyone & everyone off ticket. Then the laws changed to make the conversion far more detailed & then the need for proof house examination on top; this all conspired to make the job of converting them un-economic, unless the customer was prepared to pay several hundred pounds for a wall hanger. As you say, bit of a shame to essentially `butcher` them; but for years in the 60s/70s the world was awash with bolt action ex-military rifles that no one wanted. In the early 80s you could buy a chinese copy of the AK-47 complete with cleaning kit, bayonet & sling for £120 trade, so the chance of selling a pallet load of well used war time finish Enfield Rifles (probably with 2 groove rifling) was virtually impossible.

[Gordon R]

Quote

Hmmm, "nope" :-)