al4x Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 We have a little issue that I can’t say much about but if as a licence holder you don’t notify the police of a change of address and then don’t fit a cabinet to your new address and keep your shotgun behind the door are you likely to just be revoked or is there an offence attached to this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 Briefly.....Legislation dictates It is the responsibility of the certificate holder to ensure the guns are kept safe and secure to the satisfaction of the police, failure to do so after grant (or failure to keep/store them in the stipulated secure manner on which the certificate was granted) may well render the person unsuitable to hold a certificate, certainly in your hypothetical example the person concerned risks losing their certificate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 I'm pretty sure - which doesn't help much - that there is an offence committed but have no doubt that someone will be along with the definitive answer. However, I'm absolutely certain that if someone wishes to persue that aim then some applicable legislation will be found to facilitate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 It's in black and white. It's not complying with the conditions of the ticket, specifically conditions 3 and 4a. I don't know if it would be grounds for revocation, but I certainly wouldn't want to find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 There are most certainly grounds for revocation as given above (unsuitability). The only thing in doubt which is what al4x is after is has an offence been committed to boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 I’ll fill in the full story when I can but like you i’m Not sure if there is a specific offence. I know this case has allowed access to people without a certificate but plod have been inept and verging on dangerous so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 I confess I am not aware of a specific criminal offence! But that doesn't mean there isn't one! Lol! But if a criminal offence took place as a result of unauthorised access to unsecured guns....the certificate holder would certainly lose their certificate for a considerable period of time, if not forever?.............I suppose something around "negligence" could (maybe?) be the basis of an offence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 My copy of the Firearms Act 1968 was reprinted in 1981. If this is still valid, then, yes, an offence has been committed. See Chap 27, Part 1, Sect 2 (2). I don't know, but imagine that the fine at least will have been increased since then, but the possible punishment is/was 6 months and/or £200. It is also an offence to fail to act on a revocation order within 21 days. I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 Amended by Part 1 Section 1 (2) of the Firearms Act 1988. The offence is: (2)It is an offence for a person to fail to comply with a condition subject to which a firearm certificate is held by him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 Given that the sgc was granted at one address where I suspect the security and cabinet were checked and approved and he’s moved without notifying the fld not taken the cabinet and storage of the gun is hardly secure i should think there’s a few rules broken personaly think there’s good grounds to revoke certificate and remove the gun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 Gun has gone whether there are more is another matter and I guess a revoke will happen but is there an offence / sentence attached or is it deemed revoking the cert is enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 (edited) My own Googling suggests revocation, but no prosecution. A lot would depend on whether other offences were involved. This would be an straightforward conviction, as an offence has been committed. Edited May 28, 2018 by Gordon R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 Leaving an unsecured shotgun in premises has certainly been the cause of revocation in most cases I'm aware of, and conviction in those where such occurrences have led to theft or loss of said shotgun. I don't know the circumstances of the OP's topic, but I have seen many instances of 'keepers and shooters who have simply left shotguns behind doors and footwells of vehicles for easy access, often loaded. In every instance in my experience it is people who have owned shotguns since the days when licenses were available over the PO counter and cabinets weren't more or less obligatory. Perhaps the practice will die out with that particular generation, but for people who simply perceive them as tools, as in the cases I describe, perhaps not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 3 hours ago, Gordon R said: Amended by Part 1 Section 1 (2) of the Firearms Act 1988. The offence is: (2)It is an offence for a person to fail to comply with a condition subject to which a firearm certificate is held by him. It’s on the front of your ticket that you must let the Police know if you change address within 7 days, So as long as the term ‘firearm certificate’ also applies to shotgun licences then an offence is committed and may be pushed for prosecution. As always it will be down to the individual force of how hard they come crashing down on someone ... now please put us out of our misery and let us know what’s going on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 I can’t as let’s face it a lot of people who shoot are on here. However this was certainly 3 weeks in the property while the holder has been on holiday but there is a lot more to it. When we get it settled I will fill in the dots! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2018 (edited) Ok I think it’s fine to say a little more on this. We have a property we let out has it’s ups and downs tennant wise. The latest has had a few issues but this came about when we had work needing to be done to the windows. Contacted tennant and fine builder can have access so the work started. Second day I got the call to say you know there is a gun in there, thinking probably an air gun etc I said take a photo and send it to me. Lo and behold looked like a 20b plus cartridges, so there started the moral dilema if he is a shooter do I report or not. Had a word with a mate in the police and decided really I had no idea when he was coming back or if it was legally held so had to. Called it in on the non emergency and they were pretty complacent and said I guess we need to collect it and keep it safe. Then we waited builder went home and about 5 hours later had the call could we give access to check it. I was still at work but my other half went over to let in a wpc who didn’t know one end of a gun from another. She was able to confirm it was real and I got the call from my other half to say she had carried it downstairs un broken and it was on the sofa waiting firearms to check it was unloaded but they were an hour away. So I talked my other half through opening it, then the ejectors popped and both squealed.... pair of snap caps flew across the room. After that said wpc was happy to take it to the local for safe keeping and that was the last from them. Tennant did come back and the letting agent had a load of grief about our builder stealing his antique rifle..... answered that quite quick with the reference number he could use to reclaim it. We think he has got divorced and moved out of the family house and that is where he presumably has a cabinet. Due to a few things we have just said we won’t renew the tenancy so hopefully things will work out ok with regard to him moving out but I am still staggered at the lack of urgency that this was treated and hasn’t been followed up with us at all. Edited July 2, 2018 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted July 2, 2018 Report Share Posted July 2, 2018 (edited) 42 minutes ago, al4x said: Ok I think it’s fine to say a little more on this. We have a property we let out has it’s ups and downs tennant wise. The latest has had a few issues but this came about when we had work needing to be done to the windows. Contacted tennant and fine builder can have access so the work started. Second day I got the call to say you know there is a gun in there, thinking probably an air gun etc I said take a photo and send it to me. Lo and behold looked like a 20b plus cartridges, so there started the moral dilema if he is a shooter do I report or not. Had a word with a mate in the police and decided really I had no idea when he was coming back or if it was legally held so had to. Called it in on the non emergency and they were pretty complacent and said I guess we need to collect it and keep it safe. Then we waited builder went home and about 5 hours later had the call could we give access to check it. I was still at work but my other half went over to let in a wpc who didn’t know one end of a gun from another. She was able to confirm it was real and I got the call from my other half to say she had carried it downstairs un broken and it was on the sofa waiting firearms to check it was unloaded but they were an hour away. So I talked my other half through opening it, then the ejectors popped and both squealed.... pair of snap caps flew across the room. After that said wpc was happy to take it to the local for safe keeping and that was the last from them. Tennant did come back and the letting agent had a load of grief about our builder stealing his antique rifle..... answered that quite quick with the reference number he could use to reclaim it. We think he has got divorced and moved out of the family house and that is where he presumably has a cabinet. Due to a few things we have just said we won’t renew the tenancy so hopefully things will work out ok with regard to him moving out but I am still staggered at the lack of urgency that this was treated and hasn’t been followed up with us at all. Sounds about right for the Police then ? Be more interested to hear more about his excuse of the “antique rifle” ... I’m just surprised they were thick enough to know they put it there and still let the builder / you round. If your builder wasn’t honest, or yourself... someone could easily have stolen it! Edited July 2, 2018 by Lloyd90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted July 2, 2018 Report Share Posted July 2, 2018 (edited) Compare the above with several reported incidence where someone going about their lawful business Pigeon shooting was challenged at gunpoint by a police armed response unit complete with hovering police helicopter! I suspect the police used the report of someone with a gun as an excuse to justify the expense of a full police training exercise! little surprises me about the conduct of our police in this day and age! Edited July 2, 2018 by panoma1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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