Timberwolf00 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 Me and my mate have permission on the same ground, I have SGC and he has FAC so the question is can I shoot his 223 under his supervision? Sorry if this has been covered before, it's in scotland I ask this about many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow243 Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 you can use a rifle on any estate stalking you can let someone use your rifle if your a land owner or have shooting rights and you are with them ie beside them not half way down the field etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HW95J Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 As above, yes you can use with supervision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timberwolf00 Posted July 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2019 (edited) Cheers guys , so all good then where we have permission from the farmer I can use his gun as long as he is next to me.👍 Edited July 7, 2019 by Timberwolf00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingman Posted July 7, 2019 Report Share Posted July 7, 2019 Definitely fine. I’ve used my mates .308 and 6.5 on land that he has full permission over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted July 7, 2019 Report Share Posted July 7, 2019 15 hours ago, Timberwolf00 said: Cheers guys , so all good then where we have permission from the farmer I can use his gun as long as he is next to me.👍 3 hours ago, Wingman said: Definitely fine. I’ve used my mates .308 and 6.5 on land that he has full permission over. Are you absolutely certain about this? There's no mention of any words akin to estate rifle, occupier, occupier's servant, ie ghillie, stalker, game keeper. Having permission simply doesn't cut the mustard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingman Posted July 7, 2019 Report Share Posted July 7, 2019 All I can say is it’s probably best to check with your local firearms officer for the definitive answer. I am going back a bit so quite likely things may have changed. Best be safe so you don’t fall foul of the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted July 7, 2019 Report Share Posted July 7, 2019 It all in here https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q320.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted July 7, 2019 Report Share Posted July 7, 2019 Extracted from Countryside Alliance FAQs: A person who does not hold a firearm certificate may borrow a rifle (the ‘estate rifle’) from the occupier of private land and use it on that land in the presence of the occupier or the occupier’s servant. “Servant” would be taken to include a stalker, gamekeeper or ghillie employed by the occupier. · The borrower must be aged 17 years or older. If the borrower is 17 years old, then the lender must be aged 18 years or over. · The rifle may only be used on the occupier’s land. · The occupier’s servant, if accompanying the borrower, must hold a firearm certificate for the estate rifle. · All conditions on the lender’s firearm certificate must be complied with. Relevant Act(s): Section 16 (1) Firearms Amendment Act 1988 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow243 Posted July 7, 2019 Report Share Posted July 7, 2019 How come when someone asks a question and it gets answered with a few of the same replies somebody else always says all the right replies are wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontastic Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 On 06/07/2019 at 08:36, scarecrow243 said: you can use a rifle on any estate stalking you can let someone use your rifle if your a land owner or have shooting rights and you are with them ie beside them not half way down the field etc etc And how many on here have shooting rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontastic Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 Just to clarify one important point, you can be accompanied by not only the land owner/shooting rights holder but also by someone who has been given permission "in writing" from land owner/rights holder. Permission in writing is the key wording of the ammended act, it is illegal to allow someone to use your rifle if your permission is only verbal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontastic Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 9 hours ago, scarecrow243 said: How come when someone asks a question and it gets answered with a few of the same replies somebody else always says all the right replies are wrong Because most of the replies so far have actually been incorrect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow243 Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 any farm i have had permission on with my rifles has given shooting rights as i always ask for permission to shoot foxes and deer and the geese etc with the shotgun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 17 minutes ago, scarecrow243 said: any farm i have had permission on with my rifles has given shooting rights as i always ask for permission to shoot foxes and deer and the geese etc with the shotgun Simply to clarify things: If for whatever reason and you had done nothing wrong, should you go on any of your farms where you have permission later on today could the farmer tell you that he had withdrawn that permission as of now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontastic Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 42 minutes ago, scarecrow243 said: any farm i have had permission on with my rifles has given shooting rights as i always ask for permission to shoot foxes and deer and the geese etc with the shotgun Rubbish, I don't for one minute believe every farmer you've shot for has just handed over the shooting rights to you. One place I shoot on the shooting rights cost 90,000 and you say you pick these up for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, toontastic said: Rubbish, I don't for one minute believe every farmer you've shot for has just handed over the shooting rights to you. One place I shoot on the shooting rights cost 90,000 and you say you pick these up for free. A lot of people confuse 'rights' with 'permission'. Rights are generally bought and paid for, with formal legal documentation in place in the form of a lease. A permission letter does not confer any 'rights' and can be withdrawn at any time without prior notice. Edited July 8, 2019 by Penelope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontastic Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, Penelope said: A lot of people confuse 'rights' with 'permission'. Rights are generally bought and paid for, with formal legal documentation in place in the form of a lease. A permission letter does not confer any 'rights' and can be withdrawn and any time without prior notice. And someone wrongly believing they have shooting rights could easily find themselves in legal bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 47 minutes ago, Penelope said: A lot of people confuse 'rights' with 'permission'. Rights are generally bought and paid for, with formal legal documentation in place in the form of a lease. A permission letter does not confer any 'rights' and can be withdrawn at any time without prior notice. This ^^^^^^^^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 A hypothetical question relating to this? A 16 man DIY game syndicate lease the shooting rights to a farm on a formal annual basis. Two of the syndicate members are named on the lease, but all members pay the same fees and have equal voting rights, generally observed at the AGM. Who are the 'occupiers', the two named on the lease or all members, given that they have equal rights within the syndicate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshMike Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 (edited) As below : I hold an open licence and plenty of people have been out in my company and used my rifles. In this respect I have been a "servant" of the occupier in that I have their permission to be on their ground. I have detailed this in the letter I have sent to the Firearms officer when "signing off" peoples mentoring conditions and the FEO has never contacted me to say I am factually incorrect with ref to section 16(1). Edited July 8, 2019 by WelshMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old farrier Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 53 minutes ago, Penelope said: A hypothetical question relating to this? A 16 man DIY game syndicate lease the shooting rights to a farm on a formal annual basis. Two of the syndicate members are named on the lease, but all members pay the same fees and have equal voting rights, generally observed at the AGM. Who are the 'occupiers', the two named on the lease or all members, given that they have equal rights within the syndicate? And more to the point who’s liable if anything goes wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Old farrier said: And more to the point who’s liable if anything goes wrong? In what way? Shooting related accident or injury? All covered in BASC syndicate cover. Guests are also covered under the policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontastic Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 49 minutes ago, WelshMike said: As below : I hold an open licence and plenty of people have been out in my company and used my rifles. In this respect I have been a "servant" of the occupier in that I have their permission to be on their ground. I have detailed this in the letter I have sent to the Firearms officer when "signing off" peoples mentoring conditions and the FEO has never contacted me to say I am factually incorrect with ref to section 16(1). Have you got your permission in writing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshMike Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 24 minutes ago, toontastic said: Have you got your permission in writing Not in all cases. Ironically I havent given myself permission in writing to shoot on my own ground...but its only 28 acres. Not sure where the info I posted went... Try page 40 section 6.21 of the below item https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/firearms-law-guidance-to-the-police-201 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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