ditchman Posted July 14, 2019 Report Share Posted July 14, 2019 GINA MILLAR...... ere' we go again......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 https://order-order.com/2019/07/17/uk-fintech-growth-hits-record-high-despite-brexit/ UK fintech growth is at record levels this year: UK fintech startups have already managed to secure £2.34 billion of investment in the first six months of 2019 – despite the expectation that Brexit would happen in March. The sector is well on course to smash last year’s record of £2.66 billion. It comes just after yesterday’s ONS figures showed wages rising at 3.6%, the fastest rate since 2008, while unemployment is at a 45-year low and inflation is steady at its target of 2%. Still waiting for Osborne’s “immediate and profound” economic shock…Despite Brexit! Poor Anna Soubry. She’s lost influence, friends, and will probably lose her seat. She has poured her heart out to ITV’s Paul Brand “we made some terrible mistakes over leadership and I can tell you now that the problem was was that Chuka wouldn’t step up to it. And if Chuka had stepped up to it he would have been our leader, it was certainly …well I always assumed it was absolutely going to happen. Paul Brand: Why do you think he didn’t? Anna Soubry: You’d have to ask him that but he does have history of not stepping up. Very sad because he… to me he was absolutely the future for our country. I genuinely believe that, I wouldn’t have left my party if I hadn’t believed that. PB: Were you trying to persuade him to stand as leader? AS: Good God, yes. Goodness me yes. He should have been our leader and he wasn’t and then after the EU elections which were a terrific blow of course they were you don’t give up at the first hurdle, for God’s sakes. PB: How did you feel when he joined the Lib Dems? AS: I think he made a terrible mistake. I was genuinely really sad about that. For me it personally hurt, it really did hurt. I thought he was my big buddy. He was a major part of why I left the Tory party. To start something new with him as the leader, I don’t want to be the bloody leader I genuinely believe that Chuka Umunna should be prime minister of our country and had the – just what we were needing to be a great prime minister. I genuinely believe that. PB: Have you spoken to him since he joined the Lib Dems? AS: Unfortunately, he has never called. He has never called me. Which I think is very sad. PB: The friendship’s sort of broken down then? AS: Very sad. Very sad. We have exchanged emails but you now, you sort of, well I won’t go into it all but … Watch her heartbreaking ITV interview in full and hold back your tears… Boo Hoo! Source: Guido Fawkes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamus Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 What actually happens in the event of a 'No-Deal' Brexit? … I mean what happens as regards trade and travel, indeed all undertakings entered into when were a part of the EU (i.e. their liabilities and guarantees to us and vice versa) … If there's 'No Deal' how exactly will we 'deal' with the rest of Europe from Nov 1st? … I'm curious to know, because I just don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 Just now, Tamus said: What actually happens in the event of a 'No-Deal' Brexit? … I mean what happens as regards trade and travel, indeed all undertakings entered into when were a part of the EU (i.e. their liabilities and guarantees to us and vice versa) … If there's 'No Deal' how exactly will we 'deal' with the rest of Europe from Nov 1st? … I'm curious to know, because I just don't know. I wont matter because in the event of a no deal Brexit, the UK will fall off a cliff edge into the Sea of Oblivion, where they be dragons ! Or we can be optimistic, and say that , probably not much at all to the ordinary man on the street, the trouble is , as above, no body really talks about it seriously, especially if you are a remainer, and prefer to paint a picture of doom.~Hopefully, when it becomes imminent the businesses that are going to be directly affected will take measures to preserve trade and travel, with government support from both sides of the EU/UK divide. Either that, or learn how to fight dragons 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead eye alan Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, Tamus said: What actually happens in the event of a 'No-Deal' Brexit? … I mean what happens as regards trade and travel, indeed all undertakings entered into when were a part of the EU (i.e. their liabilities and guarantees to us and vice versa) … If there's 'No Deal' how exactly will we 'deal' with the rest of Europe from Nov 1st? … I'm curious to know, because I just don't know. We whould go to WTO trading rules. Simples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamus Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, dead eye alan said: We whould go to WTO trading rules. Simples. Who says? … Certainly the boss of the WTO gave a categoric "No!" to the idea, again, recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, Tamus said: Who says? … Certainly the boss of the WTO gave a categoric "No!" to the idea, again, recently. No he didnt. He said the GATT 24 clause 5b couldnt be used , for tariff free WTO trade, as there wasnt a deal in progress between the 2 parties. WTO rules would still apply, just with tariffs, including 10 % on cars, seeing as most of our cars are imported, that makes European car manufacturers 10 % more expensive, not good for them, and thats just for starters. Like I said, business will make something work, or many of them wont be in business. All the threat and bluster, is going to end up killing trade, and thats before anythings happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 The EU will "deal" when they accept that the UK will leave without a deal, if they don't relent! It is the deliberate traitorous, anti democratic actions of a remainer Parliament, who in an attempt to stop Brexit, forced through the vote that we wouldn't leave without a deal and the weak subservient "negotiating" position the UK had to take as a result, that has cost this country dear monetarily and prevented us securing an acceptable exit deal......just what the remainers have been working for since day one! To stop Brexit at any cost! The EU were handed all the weapons to defeat Brexit by a remainer UK Parliament, because they want us to stay! So the EU didn't need to give us anything, they want us to remain in the EU so why would they help us leave?........It's different now......if we don't blink......I recon they will!.....If not **** em! After we leave, If they offer us nothing that advantages the UK........we need give the EU nothing in exchange!......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 19 minutes ago, panoma1 said: The EU will "deal" when they accept that the UK will leave without a deal, if they don't relent! It is the deliberate traitorous, anti democratic actions of a remainer Parliament, who in an attempt to stop Brexit, forced through the vote that we wouldn't leave without a deal and the weak subservient "negotiating" position the UK had to take as a result, that has cost this country dear monetarily and prevented us securing an acceptable exit deal......just what the remainers have been working for since day one! To stop Brexit at any cost! The EU were handed all the weapons to defeat Brexit by a remainer UK Parliament, because they want us to stay! So the EU didn't need to give us anything, they want us to remain in the EU so why would they help us leave?........It's different now......if we don't blink......I recon they will!.....If not **** em! After we leave, If they offer us nothing that advantages the UK........we need give the EU nothing in exchange!......... 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 See, even oowee believes in no deal now ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamus Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 25 minutes ago, Rewulf said: No he didnt. He said the GATT 24 clause 5b couldnt be used , for tariff free WTO trade, as there wasnt a deal in progress between the 2 parties. WTO rules would still apply, just with tariffs, including 10 % on cars, seeing as most of our cars are imported, that makes European car manufacturers 10 % more expensive, not good for them, and thats just for starters. Like I said, business will make something work, or many of them wont be in business. All the threat and bluster, is going to end up killing trade, and thats before anythings happened. So, we've applied to the WTO to do this have we? I missed that. If I've got the figures right we export a little over 1.2 million cars annually from the UK to the EU (80 odd % of the cars we actually manufacture here) and we import something just over 1.8 million cars annually from the EU into the UK (i.e. 12.4% of the cars the other 27 EU countries produce annually). I agree, a 10% price rise on their cars to us will be bad for our consumers and for their exporters, but it seems it would be even worse for us trying to sell so much of our production to them. In fact why would they import our cars when they could just keep more of their own at home for less? Anyways, thanks for your answer and I look forward to seeing what will actually happen. Though I'm still none the wiser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Tamus said: If I've got the figures right we export a little over 1.2 million cars annually from the UK to the EU (80 odd % of the cars we actually manufacture here) As long as you realise those car manufacturers are not British, they are French , German, and Japanese, apart from a few niche products , we dont have a UK car marque. So if the EU want to willfully make life hard for us, they make life hard for the businesses of the EU by proxy. Lets see how popular that makes them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 i rekon cause of her age and hormoans ...she has got the hots for chuka amuna.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 Just now, ditchman said: i rekon cause of her age and hormoans ...she has got the hots for chuka amuna.. Hes probably already been there, hes a bit of a ladies man is our Chuka. Mind you they reckon hes a bit of a mans man when the mood takes him 😲 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Rewulf said: Hes probably already been there, hes a bit of a ladies man is our Chuka. Mind you they reckon hes a bit of a mans man when the mood takes him 😲 well i didnt know that....................... mind you im not that surprised..........i rekon half the females at westminter...are in the "bury me in a "Y" shaped coffin" club......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinfireman Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 3 hours ago, Tamus said: What actually happens in the event of a 'No-Deal' Brexit? … I mean what happens as regards trade and travel, indeed all undertakings entered into when were a part of the EU (i.e. their liabilities and guarantees to us and vice versa) … If there's 'No Deal' how exactly will we 'deal' with the rest of Europe from Nov 1st? … I'm curious to know, because I just don't know. Until a new trade deal is concluded with the EU, we trade under WTO rules. It will not take the EU long to conclude a trade deal, as we already meet requirements on virtually everything we trade! We have been using their rules for 45 years, so we know them backwards! We trade under WTO with the rest of the world, until we do separate deals with them. USA is already wanting to do a trade deal with us, as is most of the English speaking world. 2 hours ago, Tamus said: Who says? … Certainly the boss of the WTO gave a categoric "No!" to the idea, again, recently. He does NOT make the decisions! They are made by individual countries! 2 hours ago, panoma1 said: The EU will "deal" when they accept that the UK will leave without a deal, if they don't relent! It is the deliberate traitorous, anti democratic actions of a remainer Parliament, who in an attempt to stop Brexit, forced through the vote that we wouldn't leave without a deal and the weak subservient "negotiating" position the UK had to take as a result, that has cost this country dear monetarily and prevented us securing an acceptable exit deal......just what the remainers have been working for since day one! To stop Brexit at any cost! The EU were handed all the weapons to defeat Brexit by a remainer UK Parliament, because they want us to stay! So the EU didn't need to give us anything, they want us to remain in the EU so why would they help us leave?........It's different now......if we don't blink......I recon they will!.....If not **** em! After we leave, If they offer us nothing that advantages the UK........we need give the EU nothing in exchange!......... Correct! 1 hour ago, ditchman said: i rekon cause of her age and hormoans ...she has got the hots for chuka amuna.. That could be true.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 wonder what boris has to say with peston to-nite........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamus Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Rewulf said: As long as you realise those car manufacturers are not British, they are French , German, and Japanese, apart from a few niche products , we dont have a UK car marque. So if the EU want to willfully make life hard for us, they make life hard for the businesses of the EU by proxy. Lets see how popular that makes them. Nah, sorry, I'm really not following your reasoning here. How is it 'them' making life hard for EU businesses if 'we' make the decision to go with No Deal? That's like the kidnapper's line of reasoning, where they blame the ransom payers for anyone getting hurt. Frankly, I can only see lots of production moving elsewhere without it hurting 'Europe' much at all and the UK losing out on exports while simultaneously being hurt, quite badly, by having to pay more for imports, because of our choice. I'm in agriculture, by the way. Any loss of 'frictionless' trade with Europe and particularly a move to WTO regs will disadvantage the part of my sector's produce that is currently exported to Europe, by sticking us with tariffs of considerably more than 10% while simultaneously bumping up the costs of the machinery, fertilisers, feeds, seeds, drugs and other chemicals that we import from the EU.... and the greater part of all those things actually comes into the UK from Europe these days, but we knew that all along. Any further weakening pound will just exacerbate the issue of increased costs in sectors already struggling to generate any profit. If I'm honest, I wasn't much looking forward to the deal and I've no appetite for a no deal, but I'm still completely in the dark about what will happen and how it will all actually work from Nov 1st onwards. No-one will tell us. Indeed, is it for definite that we will leave the EU at all? I initially thought that was a certainty, but now that we are drifting toward departure date number three, I'm not so sure of even that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 just been watching and listening to .."live"...jerermy hunt....................he is to say the least regards his communication skills...............eeerrrr......inept ? it was excruciating to watch and listen to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamus Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) 54 minutes ago, pinfireman said: Until a new trade deal is concluded with the EU, we trade under WTO rules. It will not take the EU long to conclude a trade deal, as we already meet requirements on virtually everything we trade! We have been using their rules for 45 years, so we know them backwards! We trade under WTO with the rest of the world, until we do separate deals with them. USA is already wanting to do a trade deal with us, as is most of the English speaking world. It'll be the easiest 'deal' in History. Or so they told us three years ago... but we're now talking about No Deal... Edited July 17, 2019 by Tamus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 29 minutes ago, Tamus said: Nah, sorry, I'm really not following your reasoning here. How is it 'them' making life hard for EU businesses if 'we' make the decision to go with No Deal? That's like the kidnapper's line of reasoning, where they blame the ransom payers for anyone getting hurt. Frankly, I can only see lots of production moving elsewhere without it hurting 'Europe' much at all and the UK losing out on exports while simultaneously being hurt, quite badly, by having to pay more for imports, because of our choice Let's look at those points. First you need to separate the EU from Europe. Brussels has set itself up as the de facto central European government, and tried to make every one believe this is what you want and need. The fact they have done this without a single democratic vote in any country, should ring alarm bells TBH, but I digress. The fact is, if your business wants to trade with a European business, for mutual benefit, then what's stopping you? An EU law, a tariff? If these laws or tarrifs are going to hurt day to day business for 10s of millions of EUROPEANS including us, then those laws or tariffs, conditions, whatever, are not going to be popular, at all. So, let's vote these people out, who are hurting Europe so badly, oh I forgot, you can't. Much easier to make it all someone else's fault, like us, the US, or the Russians.... So if we can't have no deal, because the EU holds UK business to ransom/threats ect, what are we left with? Whatever 'deal' the EU LET'S us have... is this OK? If we didn't have our own politicians actively assisting Brussels in this, it would certainly help with negotiating 'the easiest deal in history' but I'm afraid that horse has bolted. If it comes to tariffs, because I believe a WTO Brexit is now inevitable, remember that they work both ways, and should be short lived, before common sense takes hold, and businesses , the real driving force in European trade, take control, in this sorry tale of a proxy, pseudo government, putting its own interests before the people it's supposed to represent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, Tamus said: What actually happens in the event of a 'No-Deal' Brexit? … I mean what happens as regards trade and travel, indeed all undertakings entered into when were a part of the EU (i.e. their liabilities and guarantees to us and vice versa) … If there's 'No Deal' how exactly will we 'deal' with the rest of Europe from Nov 1st? … I'm curious to know, because I just don't know. www.eureferendum.com is a very informative blog on this topic. Dr Richard North, who writes it, is a Brexiter who was campaigning to leave the EU as far back as 97. He is a an expert on the ins and outs of of EU and other international trade agreements and often covers examples, sector by sector. He is, unfortunately, very combative and doesn't mince his words and as a result has insulted or offended pretty much everyone of influence or importance on both sides of the debate. As a result his writing is far less well known than it should be. Incidentally, the comments section of his blog is well worth reading too. Shipping agents, exporters, incognito civil servants...they all pop up from time to time with sector specific expertise. And the level of discussion amongst ordinary posters is better too. It's not just people in trenches throwing Mills bombs at each other. I've learned loads from eureferenum. An edited extra. As an example, this post http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86369 from back in 2017 pretty much sums up the difficulties and points out the unreality of most of the political discussion. A browse through the back pages of the blog will throw up a mass of such detailed info. And there's always Sir Ivan. https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/12/13/full-speech-sir-ivan-rogers-on-brexit/ . Of course, whenever he speaks the Ultras - when they can't just ignore him -, instead of trying to refute his points, immediately start shooting at the messenger...bizarrely even trying to use his expertise and vast experience in the field of international trade negotiation as ammunition! But it's probably all too late now anyway. Edited July 18, 2019 by Retsdon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 5 hours ago, Tamus said: I'm in agriculture, by the way. Not sheep or dairy I hope! http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/press/index.cfm?id=2026 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamus Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 7 hours ago, Retsdon said: www.eureferendum.com is a very informative blog on this topic. Dr Richard North, who writes it, is a Brexiter who was campaigning to leave the EU as far back as 97. He is a an expert on the ins and outs of of EU and other international trade agreements and often covers examples, sector by sector. He is, unfortunately, very combative and doesn't mince his words and as a result has insulted or offended pretty much everyone of influence or importance on both sides of the debate. As a result his writing is far less well known than it should be. Incidentally, the comments section of his blog is well worth reading too. Shipping agents, exporters, incognito civil servants...they all pop up from time to time with sector specific expertise. And the level of discussion amongst ordinary posters is better too. It's not just people in trenches throwing Mills bombs at each other. I've learned loads from eureferenum. An edited extra. As an example, this post http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86369 from back in 2017 pretty much sums up the difficulties and points out the unreality of most of the political discussion. A browse through the back pages of the blog will throw up a mass of such detailed info. And there's always Sir Ivan. https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/12/13/full-speech-sir-ivan-rogers-on-brexit/ . Of course, whenever he speaks the Ultras - when they can't just ignore him -, instead of trying to refute his points, immediately start shooting at the messenger...bizarrely even trying to use his expertise and vast experience in the field of international trade negotiation as ammunition! But it's probably all too late now anyway. Yes I've read these people too. The idea that we are fully aligned is for the birds, since there's already a raft of legislation in every sector that we should be working toward ratifying but aren't so we're already falling our of alignment at a considerable rate. It's very messy, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamus Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 6 hours ago, Retsdon said: Not sheep or dairy I hope! http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/press/index.cfm?id=2026 Used to be dairy, sheep and grain, but for the last twenty odd years it's been mainly beef cattle and sheep production. Since we voted to leave we can see the world has moved on and the protections the EU gives its members are clearly already ceasing to apply to the UK, witness the new Japan/EU and Mercosur/EU trade deals and of course the Aus/NZ EU trade talks in progress. Far from having the English speaking world beating a path to the door at Westminster (to do a deal), they're all getting into bed with our big neighbours (The EU). As I already said, anything that diminishes 'frictionless' trade with the EU hurts my sector. I anticipate pain, but I've no idea how much or when, or indeed 'if' it will actually all happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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