More accusations

[ShootingEgg]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-49508761

 

RSPB saying again that there is persecution of BOP. Unsure there have been the number of convictions that they are accusing. Although they are saying birds are being killed and not found or seen. 

 

Of course if it is happening it needs to stop and people need to be prosicuted.. 

But evidence is key and staging traps in posts is simple and an easy thing to do as anyone can buy a trap. 

If i had a grudge or was trying to make out someone was doing something wrong then I could probably set something up to that effect, anyone can. So why do the RSPB get to spout missinformation and potentially false accusations. 

[JohnfromUK]

When any group has a large following/readership and high profile - they know that every little thing they publish will be widely distributed - and in this modern age of social media, probably 'go viral' by onward transmission.  It is therefore ever more important for the owners/managers/moderators to be very sure of the truth and integrity of their material before allowing publication.

The RSPB, like many well known organisations, is now run (partially anyway) by people who hold 'very strong views' on some topics.  They are inclined to look sympathetically on material that supports their own views perhaps without doing the 'due diligence research' that would be done by a person without the same strong views.

The sad fact is that in most organisations, the vast majority of the membership are good but rather uninvolved people who don't vote in elections for their leaders, and takeover by strong viewed extremists often happens.  The LACS and Animal Rights have tried this in many organisations such as the National Trust (who are big landowners).

[eddoakley]

Surely someone needs to put an article together accusing the rspb and/or other groups of heinous acts of vandalism and destruction of birds in order to create publicity for themselves and then, when the article is questioned and proof demanded simply reply that based on the rspb articles there seems to be no need for proof or evidence any more and assumptions are perfectly fine to quote as fact?

 

Edd

[old'un]

87 confirmed incidents and one prosecution. Seems the evidence is not that strong and as for the x-rays of birds containing shot, were the birds scientifically examined by an independent body? If someone with an agenda found a dead bird (died of natural causes) I would not put it past them to hang the dead bird up and take a shot at it, then hand it over to the RSPB.

I know a few keepers and not one would be foolish enough to set pole traps.

Deliberate poisoning is a very strong possibility but so is unintentional (poisoned rats/mice)

[andrewluke]

https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/features/rspb-control-that-dare-not-speak-its-name-1263

 

The RSPB?s former director of conservation, Mark Avery, discusses predator control in his book Fighting for Birds (an interesting read if you want to understand how the RSPB works): Conservation organisations are a bit coy about the amount of predator control they do, as it can never be enough for some critics and can never be too little for others. At the RSPB, we developed a policy that wouldn?t please everyone but was designed to be appropriate for a nature conservation organisation that is clearly on the side of nature, and not just cuddly nature.

He goes on to say that ideally there would be no shooting or trapping on RSPB reserves, but control is introduced when predator numbers are putting species of conservation concern at risk. Most of the control is undertaken to protect ground-nesting waders, but capercaillie, terns and cranes are also species ?which may have benefited?. He goes on to say that over the years I became more and more convinced that the RSPB needed to do a bit more predator control, but not nearly as much as some of our external critics would have us do.

Hiring professionals

When the RSPB does resort to predator control, members of staff rarely undertake it; professionals are brought in and the Society pays a proper fee for their services. For the past three years, a friend of mine has undertaken fox control on an RSPB reserve, using a rifle with night sights. He was brought in because the reserve?s nesting curlew were losing their chicks to foxes, and breeding success was virtually nil. As part of his contract he was sworn to secrecy, and he has told me very little about the job. Initially, he was asked by a manager not to shoot vixens that were clearly nursing cubs but now all foxes are to be shot.

Last year my pal agreed that I could join him for a fox shoot as long as I promised not to write about it, to which I was happy to agree to. However, I opted out when I discovered that it involved an all-night vigil from dusk to dawn. Twenty-five years ago I accompanied the Game Conservancy?s fox expert, Jonathan Reynolds, on a night?s excursion following a radio-collared fox on Salisbury Plain. By 3am I was struggling to stay awake, and by 4am I was asleep. The same was sure to happen again, except that I would fall asleep rather earlier.

Of course, one creature that you won?t find the RSPB controlling is birds of prey. Avery comments as follows: I know very few of the keenest proponents of legal predator control who aren?t also keen proponents of more control of birds of prey and other currently protected predators. There are thin ends of larger wedges at play here.

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by andrewluke

[panoma1]

35 minutes ago, old'un said:

87 confirmed incidents and one prosecution. Seems the evidence is not that strong and as for the x-rays of birds containing shot, were the birds scientifically examined by an independent body? If someone with an agenda found a dead bird (died of natural causes) I would not put it past them to hang the dead bird up and take a shot at it, then hand it over to the RSPB.

I know a few keepers and not one would be foolish enough to set pole traps.

Deliberate poisoning is a very strong possibility but so is unintentional (poisoned rats/mice)

Secondary poioning of non target birds is a very real possibility, rats and mice suffering rodenticide poisoning are easy pickings for carrion eaters and raptors! 

[Sha Bu Le]

On 29/08/2019 at 15:40, ShootingEgg said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-49508761

 

RSPB saying again that there is persecution of BOP. Unsure there have been the number of convictions that they are accusing. Although they are saying birds are being killed and not found or seen. 

 

Of course if it is happening it needs to stop and people need to be prosicuted.. 

But evidence is key and staging traps in posts is simple and an easy thing to do as anyone can buy a trap. 

If i had a grudge or was trying to make out someone was doing something wrong then I could probably set something up to that effect, anyone can. So why do the RSPB get to spout missinformation and potentially false accusations. 

Watched the report referred to by SE, I believe he is correct in his suspicions. It was so easy to pick holes in this video report. It never showed the BOP entering the trap, in spite of a Go Pro being set up to capture everything else.

The 'keeper' shown was never established as an employee of the estate which was not named

When he ( 'keeper) entered the ladder trap with a big stick the filming was stopped as being too horrific to show.

RSPB then moved on to claim 12 BOP had been killed recently and hidden. Using their 'tracking skills' they found one hidden under the only freshly picked patch of green heather. Did not show the other '11' (if they existed). Neither did they show any fatal injuries on the dead bird caused by either gun or other means.

Interaction between 'keeper' was not what you'd expect. No anger or hostility from either party.???

All in all I have seen more believable episodes of the magic round a bout. 

"Time for bed" said Zebedee 

 

 

[islandgun]

On 30/08/2019 at 10:55, andrewluke said:

https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/features/rspb-control-that-dare-not-speak-its-name-1263

 

The RSPB?s former director of conservation, Mark Avery, discusses predator control in his book Fighting for Birds (an interesting read if you want to understand how the RSPB works): Conservation organisations are a bit coy about the amount of predator control they do, as it can never be enough for some critics and can never be too little for others. At the RSPB, we developed a policy that wouldn?t please everyone but was designed to be appropriate for a nature conservation organisation that is clearly on the side of nature, and not just cuddly nature.

He goes on to say that ideally there would be no shooting or trapping on RSPB reserves, but control is introduced when predator numbers are putting species of conservation concern at risk. Most of the control is undertaken to protect ground-nesting waders, but capercaillie, terns and cranes are also species ?which may have benefited?. He goes on to say that over the years I became more and more convinced that the RSPB needed to do a bit more predator control, but not nearly as much as some of our external critics would have us do.

Hiring professionals

When the RSPB does resort to predator control, members of staff rarely undertake it; professionals are brought in and the Society pays a proper fee for their services. For the past three years, a friend of mine has undertaken fox control on an RSPB reserve, using a rifle with night sights. He was brought in because the reserve?s nesting curlew were losing their chicks to foxes, and breeding success was virtually nil. As part of his contract he was sworn to secrecy, and he has told me very little about the job. Initially, he was asked by a manager not to shoot vixens that were clearly nursing cubs but now all foxes are to be shot.

Last year my pal agreed that I could join him for a fox shoot as long as I promised not to write about it, to which I was happy to agree to. However, I opted out when I discovered that it involved an all-night vigil from dusk to dawn. Twenty-five years ago I accompanied the Game Conservancy?s fox expert, Jonathan Reynolds, on a night?s excursion following a radio-collared fox on Salisbury Plain. By 3am I was struggling to stay awake, and by 4am I was asleep. The same was sure to happen again, except that I would fall asleep rather earlier.

Of course, one creature that you won?t find the RSPB controlling is birds of prey. Avery comments as follows: I know very few of the keenest proponents of legal predator control who aren?t also keen proponents of more control of birds of prey and other currently protected predators. There are thin ends of larger wedges at play here.

 

The RSPB paid part of my wages for several years, in my work as a full time Mink trapper