Another London Terror Attack.

[GingerCat]

1 hour ago, udderlyoffroad said:

I think it's a mistake to look at any capital and extrapolate it to the rest of a country.  Not all of the UK is like London.  Have you actually been to any of those countries recently?

 

Eh?  A criminal record will be an automatic bar to even possessing them, and possession of same will lead to a mandatory prison sentence.  Much the same as with firearms currently.

It's not that I'm not getting it, I'm just challenging the conclusion you've come to. 

You seem to be envisaging some kind of dystopian free-for-all, and I'm envisaging a mandatory training scheme and licencing.

Look, I don't want to live in a society where a significant proportion of the population feels it necessary to carry something for protection.  But when my foreign-born partner laughed when I told her she really couldn't have a pepper spray in her handbag because it counts as a firearm in the UK, and it would affect her chances of getting a shotgun certificate...I began to realise that we have some very confused priorities in this country.

Put simply I don't feel there is a need, I have been to various countries and I have been a front line cop for best part of 2 decades. 

I genuinely fear it would be very detrimental to the country and totally unnecessary. 

We will have to disagree on it. 

40 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’m not ignoring you, I feel this topic needs addressing at length and will get back to it when I have a bit more time. There are several topics I need to get back to from weeks ago, but have to limit my time on PW as I’m pursuing a deadline.

Take your time, there is little if anything more for me to say. Nothing like a deadline to put a spin on things. 

Edited February 7, 2020 by GingerCat

[ordnance]

Quote

Put simply I don't feel there is a need, I have been to various countries and I have been a front line cop for best part of 2 decades. 

I genuinely fear it would be very detrimental to the country and totally unnecessary. 

We will have to disagree on it. 

Yeah they don't even trust the police with firearms for self defense , so civilians have no chance.

[toontastic]

9 minutes ago, ordnance said:

Yeah they don't even trust the police with firearms for self defense , so civilians have no chance.

I've not been home for quite a while but I seem to recall people still had firearms for personal protection. Is that still so

[ordnance]

7 minutes ago, toontastic said:

I've not been home for quite a while but I seem to recall people still had firearms for personal protection. Is that still so

They would be stricter now you need to be in a certain occupation or deemed to be under threat. 

Quote

(2) The licensing of firearms for the purpose of personal protection is a unique situation in Northern Ireland. To qualify for the grant of a personal protection weapon (PPW) an individual is required to meet certain conditions to satisfy the need for a PPW and the requirements of the Firearms (NI) Order 2004 (the Order). (3) The Policy provides the basis for decision-making by police staff in Firearms and Explosives Branch, who have delegated authority under Article 79 for the authorisation of applications for the grant of a Firearm Certificate for a PPW 2. INTRODUCTION (1) Summary (a) For the purposes of this Policy an applicant for a PPW will be deemed to have ‘good reason’ if it is established that: (b) There is a specific threat against the individual which creates a real and immediate risk verified by a specialist police report; or (c) In exceptional circumstances, a verifiable level of risk is established by other information and (d) The possession of a firearm is a reasonable, proportionate and necessary measure to protect the life of the applicant. (e) In addition to satisfying good reason primacy exists in the decision-making process to the requirements of Article 5(2) (a) of the Order in that the applicant must be considered a fit person to be entrusted with a firearm. (2) Application This policy applies to any person who in accordance with the Order is required to have a Firearm Certificate to legally possess a firearm and ammunition for personal protection purposes.

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by ordnance

[toontastic]

13 hours ago, ordnance said:

They would be stricter now you need to be in a certain occupation or deemed to be under threat. 

 

Cheers thanks for that, It seems back in the day everyone visiting the house carried a firearm for PP.

[udderlyoffroad]

 

15 hours ago, GingerCat said:

We will have to disagree on it. 

It's what a forum is for, after all 😁

 

 

[Fisheruk]

My experience of being in the States over many years is that the increase in Concealed Weapons Permits has lead to a reduction in petty muggings in many suburban areas, where it had becoming a regular occurrence. The difference between the States and the UK is that there are millions of households with guns and people are not phased by it, apart from the minority anti-gun lobby.

There are literally hundreds of thousands of people who have now gone through training and now have CWP., from elderly men and women to young folk. When someone comes out of Walmart you do not know whether they have a concealed weapon or not, be it an old woman on a mobility scooter, or a young fit man.

The idiots who use to try on the muggings now do not do try it because they don’t know whether the old lady they are trying to jump or the person 10 yards away will pull a semi-auto 22lr or 9mm pistol. Be it from the ladies purse (handbag) or a shoulder holster. It has worked in many areas over there, but we are a long way from that in the UK.

You also have to realise that the majority of the folk of this forum with FAC and SC permits are the minority in the UK. Many on here would be able to train for a Concealed Weapon Permit, most probably wouldn’t want to and therefore the volume of Concealed weapons would  be minimal in any given location and as such is unlikely to ever act as a deterrent. NI May be the exception in the UK.

We just need to take our hats off to the Police, who so far are doing pretty good in protecting us. Remember nothing will ever provide a cast iron guarantee.

[ordnance]

Quote

UK. Many on here would be able to train for a Concealed Weapon Permit, most probably wouldn’t want to and therefore the volume of Concealed weapons would  be minimal in any given location and as such is unlikely to ever act as a deterrent. NI May be the exception in the UK.

I know here in the past no training was required for a CCW, i knew people that had never held a firearm in their lives get a PPW.

[old man]

On 07/02/2020 at 13:29, GingerCat said:

The problem is allowing the carrying of weapons for self defence would literally change society as well know it in seconds. There's plenty of young men who have never been in trouble with police that are gang members and involved in serious criminality. They would all be packing. Shootings would be rife. Muggings would all be carried out with pepper spray or guns. 

Policing would change overnight also.  No longer could you approach one as you do, once inside the 21 foot draw distance he/she would be making decisions they don't have to currently.  We would resemble the states very very quickly.  A few people who have never had any trouble but could carry might feel a bit better but the majority would be worse off by a long way. Not something I'd like. 

Not wishing to be confrontational GC I agree with your summation that society would change very quickly, but if the powers that be continue down the same road as present society will change anyway just taking longer and in a different direction maybe? It will not continue as now where the only people starting to be concerned are the law abiding as they are easy targets? Known, easily accountable and controlled by removal of freedoms? 

No easy solution for sure but something must change?

On 06/02/2020 at 11:14, TIGHTCHOKE said:

 

But it is often quoted that most of these knives are carried for protection because the carrier fears others.

 

It is also often quoted that often the carrier ends up stabbed by his own weapon that he has been misguidedly carrying for defence!

 

Tighten the laws, only carry for a good reason like many of us do, carry out lots of stop and search operations and come down like a ton of bricks on anyone carrying without good reason.

It's not the carrying, it's the using maybe. To use the former opinion will lead to a ban on most personal items which won't affect the ones outside of the law?