Lead ban & BASC

[JJsDad]

7 minutes ago, motty said:

I firmly believe that manufacturers could provide many alternatives in 5 years time.

I hope and think you are correct. The non-toxic range of cartridges has improved greatly since the ban came in for fowling all those years back. It is in the cartridge manufacturers interest to improve still further in line with the joint statent by CA, BASC et al. However the statment would have carried far more weight if Gamebore, Eley & Lyvale etc had been brought on board. The joint statement might have needed a bit of tweaking to reflect the cartridge industry views, the time line might have needed extending etc. But we wouldnt be facing the current fiasco where people are saying, `who lied`?

[rbrowning2]

We had all the leading uk cartridge manufactures in their first statement tell us it is IMPOSSIBLE in five years, yet some are in denial that they speak the truth.

[rbrowning2]

We will soon see more non toxic shot and biodegradable wads cartridges come along with bioammo, but why would they sell the wads to their competitors in the uk? They will keep them for their own cartridges and keep the price high. If they and Eley can do this and supply the entire uk requirements then where will this leave our uk cartridge manufactures, struggling to survive that’s where. Eley is a Spanish company.

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by rbrowning2

[mick miller]

🤣 It's like Brexit all over again. All we need is hope and belief!  Damn the non-believers.

Edited March 6, 2020 by mick miller

[JJsDad]

31 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

We had all the leading uk cartridge manufactures in their first statement tell us it is IMPOSSIBLE in five years

Yes, but they are responding to the joint statement by the shooting organisations, with whom they are a bit peeved. If the goverment steps in and introduces legislation banning all lead shot cartridges and single use plastics in say 2025, you might find the impossible suddenly becomes achievable, because otherwise the last person leaving the Gamebore building can turn out the lights.

Edited March 6, 2020 by JJsDad

[8 shot]

The BASC and the other orgs now have very little, if any credibility left to influence any discussion or policy decisions on the future of shooting. The BASC are, in my opinion finished for now until they remember what they are there for

[Dave-G]

49 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

And I firmly believe that the manufactures could not provide many alternatives in 5 years time, the uk cartridge manufactures lack the resources to do so, they mainly assemble components manufactured by EU companies if these companies don’t have the quantity or product range, like now,  then it won’t happen. And so far we have one small niche manufacture making a very small quantity of the water soluble wads, Assuming it is technically possible, Who would fund their massive expansion in manufacturing capacity and range?  The EU we have just left? 

 

It will possibly be much easier to find a solution when they don't have to find one that pleases the EU...

[lancer425]

4 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

It will possibly be much easier to find a solution when they don't have to find one that pleases the EU...

If the trade negotiations go as outlined  with the USa, we will have easier movement of ammo powders shot etc. Usa manufacturers are looking at non tox game ammo and bio wads , as they are increasingly cooming under the spotlight regarding lead. Many state reserves and Public land upland game hunting has been non tox for some time in some states. Could be the solution comes from the USA in the end..

[rbrowning2]

53 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

Yes, but they are responding to the joint statement by the shooting organisations, with whom they are a bit peeved. If the goverment steps in and introduces legislation banning all lead shot cartridges and single use plastics in say 2025, you might find the impossible suddenly becomes achievable, because otherwise the last person leaving the Gamebore building can turn out the lights.

Well that seams very unlikely even the EU are not going to look at lead (Pb) until 2021. The shooting  organisations have lost the plot.

36 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

It will possibly be much easier to find a solution when they don't have to find one that pleases the EU...

EU don’t need to be pleased, this is a Uk issue/problem won’t impact on the EU one tiny little bit, this is a mess of are own doing don’t expect any help from within the EU.

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by rbrowning2

[clangerman]

after today’s cartridge manufacturers statements i would think the most important thing is basc clearing it’s name why are they not rushing out to deny their claims you have be branded liars basc chop chop deny it or confirm it’s not going away 

[Dave-G]

46 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

EU don’t need to be pleased, this is a Uk issue/problem won’t impact on the EU one tiny little bit, this is a mess of are own doing don’t expect any help from within the EU.

 

You missed my meaning on that, but I'm slightly dyslexic so didn't get it across.  :-)

I omitted to suggest that sorting the issue would most likely result in EU protectionist obstruction to benefit European manufacturer(s) rather than a UK produced item if we were still in. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by Dave-G

[rbrowning2]

1 minute ago, Dave-G said:

You missed my meaning on that, but I'm slightly dyslexic so didn't get it across. 🙂

I omitted to suggest that sorting the issue would most likely result in EU protectionist obstruction to benefit European manufacturer(s) rather than a UK produced item if we were still in. 

+1

[Old farrier]

22 minutes ago, clangerman said:

after today’s cartridge manufacturers statements i would think the most important thing is basc clearing it’s name why are they not rushing out to deny their claims you have be branded liars basc chop chop deny it or confirm it’s not going away 

Not hard for them to answer really I’ll try and help

option 1

yes we did consult with the cartridge manufacturers 

option 2 

no we didn’t consult with the cartridge manufacturers 

one of those should be appropriate 

[8 shot]

22 minutes ago, clangerman said:

after today’s cartridge manufacturers statements i would think the most important thing is basc clearing it’s name why are they not rushing out to deny their claims you have be branded liars basc chop chop deny it or confirm it’s not going away 

I would like to think they're beavering away trying to sort this out. The long they leave it the deeper the hole, and it's a bloody big hole now.

 

One of them would be a start.

2 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Not hard for them to answer really I’ll try and help

option 1

yes we did consult with the cartridge manufacturers 

option 2 

no we didn’t consult with the cartridge manufacturers 

one of those should be appropriate 

 

[clangerman]

even basc should manage one of those it might seem funny to some but allowing the public to think the organisation representing shooters is a liar is NO joke 

[Old farrier]

10 minutes ago, clangerman said:

even basc should manage one of those it might seem funny to some but allowing the public to think the organisation representing shooters is a liar is NO joke 

Totally agree 

and I constantly see quoted ask Basc if you’re having a problem 

now if someone has been proven to not tell the true story 

how good is the advice? 

[clangerman]

8 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Totally agree 

and I constantly see quoted ask Basc if you’re having a problem 

now if someone has been proven to not tell the true story 

how good is the advice? 

exactly integrity is everything any organisation representing us cannot be seen to do wrong it’s our reputation at stake not theirs 

[scolopax]

56 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Not hard for them to answer really I’ll try and help

option 1

yes we did consult with the cartridge manufacturers 

option 2 

no we didn’t consult with the cartridge manufacturers 

one of those should be appropriate 

Or option 1.5. We consulted with the cartridge manufacturers representative body

[Old farrier]

13 minutes ago, scolopax said:

Or option 1.5. We consulted with the cartridge manufacturers representative body

Put your own options up if you like 👍

I was making it easy 😊

going from Basc statement 🙄

we consulted with the cartridge manufacturers!!!!!! 🤔

they need to establish some sort of credibility in this situation 

[clangerman]

7 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Put your own options up if you like 👍

I was making it easy 😊

going from Basc statement 🙄

we consulted with the cartridge manufacturers!!!!!! 🤔

they need to establish some sort of credibility in this situation 

i think their option of run and hide is hilarious seriously who does that? 

[lancer425]

59 minutes ago, scolopax said:

Or option 1.5. We consulted with the cartridge manufacturers representative body

Oh please do not cloud this discussion with any facts will you? And they were haveing so much  fun and you go and say this.

[Old farrier]

7 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

Oh please do not cloud this discussion with any facts will you? And they were haveing so much  fun and you go and say this.

Not sure where the consultation with the representative bodies came from 

[clangerman]

17 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

Oh please do not cloud this discussion with any facts will you? And they were haveing so much  fun and you go and say this.

as your such a basc fan now you have THEIR statement i hope thats a good enough FACT for you 

[Old farrier]

Problem is that with no credibility there Statements and talk is worthless Sadly 

[lancer425]

There could well be aspects of this we may never get to know about.

  And for any number of reasons, however this is of little consequence why do we need to know every last detail.. Its not necessary.

Who did what why and when who knew who didn’t , could fill another 24 pages easy with all this.

  BUT if you are a Pro Lead i will fight this on the beaches  type. Or the exact opposite. compliant or non compliant. Makes no odds.

The Organisations have given us ALL a transition period, a breathing space a development time. a learning period. An adjustment period. Where we can try and get our house in order and in five years then negotiate any laws the government might look at implementing then.

I think we can realistically consider that our organisations probably had some form of intel on this issue. And the issuing of their voluntary ban can only be seen as a big positive for shooting.