Lead ban & BASC

[lancer425]

5 minutes ago, stagboy said:

Companies that cannot adapt to market trends tend to fade away. But commerce abhors a vacuum. I wonder when these guys (below) will get in the UK market?

https://bioammo.es/

 

 

Soon hopefully. i always thought the answer to this would come from Winchester or one of the european manufacturers. the uk is dire really. Eley and RIO maybe and the small ones they might get good. I like this joker firm, not sure about them but small and keen to be good and make stuff cheap that works. These Joker LAs were ok for what they were. Hope these card steels work.   I think they wont be around long they will get swallowed up ran through the gizzard of some pest of a greedy firm and spat back out as a satellite not resembling itself.  so glad i reload. 

[8 shot]

I always thought the organisations had to be appealing to the membership, no members no org, quite simple. 

[lancer425]

3 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

I always thought the organisations had to be appealing to the membership, no members no org, quite simple. 

Get involved make it appealing. If you can not do it yourself for time etc. find a front man who talks the language you like send him to council get things changed in there, if its the right direction i am sure it will float.

[andrewluke]

30 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

No not really. its not cartridges as such, its way deeper than that. Talking cartridges Hull. just the solway steel everything else now poor. Gamebore. super steel mamoth steel and 10 rhinos ok. lyalvale. the supremes in the day and 36 gram lead game ok but everything else poor. proper not used any no steel not for or againt. caladonian monarch. ok glad they are around keep things honest. Eley. Well rio connection ammo in house bismuth is good for its bismuth content. but prety poor really.

No monarch and proper if he gets his act together with non tox ok. but rest of em in uk. PAH!. Ill go abroad thanks RC NSI FOB why we not get FOB here the viri  super sports good. Winchester and rotweilel i like them always have. B&P victory most good Big four here PAH! Eley with maxam. maybe probably Er maybe not. . BIG?

so steel not much good(what's available now) but you want to move away from lead and use steel which you don't have much confidence in

[8 shot]

4 minutes ago, andrewluke said:

so steel not much good(what's available now) but you want to move away from lead and use steel which you don't have much confidence in

+1

[lancer425]

1 minute ago, andrewluke said:

so steel not much good(what's available now) but you want to move away from lead and use steel which you don't have much confidence in

In our big four firms no. But eley has the RIO conection, and gamebore Kent , but out of ours nothing that good. But will work good enough i suppose.

Said it many times the answer will come from abroad . Gamebore might use kents upland bio wad when it comes out its a big deal in the states. i am guessing thats what the hint has come from in the card cup vid from TGS. Could be Kent have something in the mill at the moment.

All this little girl lost stuff in the uk firms statements are rubish they have been on this a wile.

[clangerman]

7 minutes ago, 8 shot said:

I always thought the organisations had to be appealing to the membership, no members no org, quite simple. 

think it goes along the lines of your walking along some shiny chap accosts you gives out a load of spiel it sounds to good to be true so like a idiot I hand the money over (stop laughing!) and walk of thinking i had a right result insurance and all these benefits until i need help then it’s a different story think i need to write sucker on my hat 

[Newbie to this]

33 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

FAIR COP GOV! .   Its been interesting it has to be said. But always nice to see us shooters totally un united and not behind our shooting organisations one bit. and may i add in uncertain times.  OH! yes very comforting. ! NOT!.

Why get behind a shooting org that doesn't get behind it's own members or even keep them informed.

If as you say BASC had some insider information why not inform the membership.

Something simple like...

Dear members

BASC has been informed that a lead/plastic ban is on it's way. We have managed to secure an agreement of a voluntary 5 year phase out of both to give the cartridges manufacturers time to develop viable/affordable replacements for both.

We plan on making a public statement to the above, but felt it prudent to inform our members beforehand.

In the meantime BASC will be fighting for a compensation scheme for all those who have guns which will become obsolete with the removal of lead shot.

We hope you understand that BASC has fought for lead shot as best we could, but with the emergence of the above information, we feel this is a fight that cannot be won and the voluntary phase out is in the shooting community's interests.

Regards

As for the uncertain times, surley BASC has played a part in the recent uncertainty.

And I agree not very comforting when the biggest representative of shooting calls for bans without consulting or even informing their members!

 

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by Newbie to this

[wymberley]

56 minutes ago, stagboy said:

From Lyalvale Express accounts:

The 52 weeks to March 30 2019 has seen difficult trading conditions. The ultimate users of our products still continue to have reduced disposable  income. As a result of these difficult conditions the operating profit has reduced by 29.2%. Despite this reduction in profit the cash generate continues to be satisfactory.

 

The un-highlighted words are or may well be true from their point of view, but surely those quoted, as I've indicated in another current post, do not seem to me to be the case.

[8 shot]

8 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Why get behind a shooting org that doesn't get behind it's own members or even keep them informed.

If as you say BASC had some insider information why not inform the membership.

Something simple like...

Dear members

BASC has been informed that a lead/plastic ban is on it's way. We have managed to secure an agreement of a voluntary 5 year phase out of both to give the cartridges manufacturers time to develop viable/affordable replacements for both.

We plan on making a public statement to the above, but felt it prudent to inform our members beforehand.

In the meantime BASC will be fighting for a compensation scheme for all those who have guns which will become obsolete with the removal of lead shot.

We hope you understand that BASC has fought for lead shot as best we could, but with the emergence of the above information, we feel this is a fight that cannot be won and the voluntary phase out is in the shooting community's interests.

Regards

As for the uncertain times, surley BASC has played a part in the recent uncertainty.

And I agree not very comforting when the biggest representative of shooting calls for bans without consulting or even informing their members!

 

 

Such common sense will get you nowhere, we've had Duncan Thomas giving the people who help him get a Lifetime achievement award, a proper school boy dressing down on social media, the one thing he said  the membership shouldn't do, and possible fabrication of the truth by 9 shooting organisations In truth, the 51/52 pages written on this subject, those 120 odd words would have probably increase membership, put the orgs in a stronger position going forward, and probably give all the cartridge companies here and abroad the certainty they need to invest large amounts of money they need to. 

[Old farrier]

1 hour ago, Newbie to this said:

Why get behind a shooting org that doesn't get behind it's own members or even keep them informed.

If as you say BASC had some insider information why not inform the membership.

Something simple like...

Dear members

BASC has been informed that a lead/plastic ban is on it's way. We have managed to secure an agreement of a voluntary 5 year phase out of both to give the cartridges manufacturers time to develop viable/affordable replacements for both.

We plan on making a public statement to the above, but felt it prudent to inform our members beforehand.

In the meantime BASC will be fighting for a compensation scheme for all those who have guns which will become obsolete with the removal of lead shot.

We hope you understand that BASC has fought for lead shot as best we could, but with the emergence of the above information, we feel this is a fight that cannot be won and the voluntary phase out is in the shooting community's interests.

Regards

As for the uncertain times, surley BASC has played a part in the recent uncertainty.

And I agree not very comforting when the biggest representative of shooting calls for bans without consulting or even informing their members!

 

 

Top marks good post 👍👍

unless the reason for the ban is the financial investment in the game bird sales and marketing 

then 

dear members 

we have invested a lot of your money in the BGA and unless you lot shoot non toxic we can’t sell it and then we will have to explain why we lost the money 

hope you understand as we’re more bothered about selling it than you shooting it and now we’ve hacked off the cartridge manufacturers you’re all going to have to load your own 

please note we sold off any of our guns that would’ve been made obsolete because we had advanced notice 

not as good as yours newbe but you can get the drift 👍

[stagboy]

1 hour ago, wymberley said:

The un-highlighted words are or may well be true from their point of view, but surely those quoted, as I've indicated in another current post, do not seem to me to be the case.

I agree. And the other companies seem to be doing well. 

[lancer425]

19 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Top marks good post 👍👍

unless the reason for the ban is the financial investment in the game bird sales and marketing 

then 

dear members 

we have invested a lot of your money in the BGA and unless you lot shoot non toxic we can’t sell it and then we will have to explain why we lost the money 

hope you understand as we’re more bothered about selling it than you shooting it and now we’ve hacked off the cartridge manufacturers you’re all going to have to load your own 

please note we sold off any of our guns that would’ve been made obsolete because we had advanced notice 

not as good as yours newbe but you can get the drift 👍

Fear not OF the cartridge firm are well up to speed but this girl is a just playing hard to get. She has her next move planned dont you worry about that. 

[stagboy]

I've heard that Elvis is running the BGA and Lord Lucan is the chairman.

[lancer425]

18 minutes ago, stagboy said:

I've heard that Elvis is running the BGA and Lord Lucan is the chairman.

I though Lucian was chair at molyshot.

[rbrowning2]

We could be heading for a double whammy, WJ win their JR and that limits bag sizes plus the voluntary ban on lead shot/single use plastic.
Not a single word from the basc man on that TSG video re small gauge guns and to keep banging on about a lead shot ban that may or may not happen.

It is 100 percent clear that basc thinks game shooting is the be-all and end of all shooting and could not care a less about anybody else. 

[lancer425]

52 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

We could be heading for a double whammy, WJ win their JR and that limits bag sizes plus the voluntary ban on lead shot/single use plastic.
Not a single word from the basc man on that TSG video re small gauge guns and to keep banging on about a lead shot ban that may or may not happen.

It is 100 percent clear that basc thinks game shooting is the be-all and end of all shooting and could not care a less about anybody else. 

WOA! Hang on a bit. Whats all this.re v Small bore? And indeed the real in law ban may not come. And why dont BASC care about anybody but game shooters?

[Old farrier]

8 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

WOA! Hang on a bit. Whats all this.re v Small bore? And indeed the real in law ban may not come. And why dont BASC care about anybody but game shooters?

Well small bores for shooting non toxic biodegradable wad isn’t happening anytime soon with anything affordable 🙄

cant see the voluntary ban being reversed ☹️
with the lack of response from Basc it’s sort of looking that way 

anyway working on my shopping list to comply voluntary 157 days to get a cartridge sorted 

[andrewluke]

14 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

WOA! Hang on a bit. Whats all this.re v Small bore? And indeed the real in law ban may not come. And why dont BASC care about anybody but game shooters?

dont you worry,there will definately be a ban on lead now that BASC has publicly agreed that is is toxic,how can basc now defend lead?

[lancer425]

1 minute ago, Old farrier said:

Well small bores for shooting non toxic biodegradable wad isn’t happening anytime soon with anything affordable 🙄

cant see the voluntary ban being reversed ☹️
with the lack of response from Basc it’s sort of looking that way 

anyway working on my shopping list to comply voluntary 157 days to get a cartridge sorted 

You can reverse a vaulantary ban any time you like just do not do it. Its voluntary. I am not breaking my neck to do this, if i can not get fibre wads or think they are not suitable  ill just carry on.   Unless we get some wads very similar in price strength and performance to the current plaswads i wont be using fibre. Not hearing much positive about them at the moment. I will start with these jokers if i can get some. See what these are like. Lots of the things we need to do to get these type of wads working looks to have been addresed in that picture on the other thread, they might work ok. 

 

4 minutes ago, andrewluke said:

dont you worry,there will definately be a ban on lead now that BASC has publicly agreed that is is toxic,how can basc now defend lead?

Thats silly BASC or the orgs told them nothing they have not known for years. Lead is toxic as if they did not know that many years ago. .

[andrewluke]

7 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

You can reverse a vaulantary ban any time you like just do not do it. Its voluntary. I am not breaking my neck to do this, if i can not get fibre wads or think they are not suitable  ill just carry on.   Unless we get some wads very similar in price strength and performance to the current plaswads i wont be using fibre. Not hearing much positive about them at the moment. I will start with these jokers if i can get some. See what these are like. Lots of the things we need to do to get these type of wads working looks to have been addresed in that picture on the other thread, they might work ok. 

 

Thats silly BASC or the orgs told them nothing they have not known for years. Lead is toxic as if they did not know that many years ago. .

so why has basc been defending lead for so long and suddenly have a change of heart??

[Terry2016]

21 hours ago, lancer425 said:

rc b&p AND FOB  Are innovative firms they could easily bring something out. .

Agreed, I am sure they will. 

Definitlty a step in the right direction for us as this will future proof shooting.

[lancer425]

7 minutes ago, andrewluke said:

so why has basc been defending lead for so long and suddenly have a change of heart??

To reply here is to guess. There has been lots of guessing on this thread on this subject.   Lots going on in Europe  and across the world, not all of it common knowledge and some of it totaly behind the scenes, we are in a quite comfortable place right now with our shooting orgs suggesting this voluntary transition period ban, its giving us time, and i think we need time right now.  

I think the orgs have been quite clever. nothings changed in law, yet we are seeing to be doing. This gives us the high ground. Its infuriating the antis and in my book thats always a good thing.

[Terry2016]

5 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

You keep fighting their corner, and dismissing everything else as wack job conspiracy theories. 

BASC and the others are membership organisations, the members should have been consulted and BASC Etc. should have put their argument forward and then put it to the membership, whatever was then decided should have been the official stance (regardless of what BASC's magical crystal ball could see, (and I'm the conspiracy nut)) (also bear in mind I said I may be wrong). The membership is their bread and butter, these are the people that they should be fighting for, not giving up and rolling over on their behalf, even if there is a profit to be made 

Consult the members? why should they do that  ?  you join BASC for insurance and technical support and to know you are supporting an organisation that fight tp protect shooting for the future. 

BASC is set up as an association they have a member elected council to represent the views of the membership.  they do not consult the membership on the future of shooting or decisions they are going to take. 

I think Brexit has gone to everyones head ..everyone is aloud a vote ...  these organisations are not set up like that and never will be, nothing would ever get done.. 

 

 

[clangerman]

27 minutes ago, andrewluke said:

so why has basc been defending lead for so long and suddenly have a change of heart??

as in most stupid mistakes my friend money is the real reason it’s all here if you read back