BASC.

[McSpredder]

 

On ‎02‎/‎03‎/‎2020 at 18:14, mudpatten said:

Why would BASC want to consult with the vast majority of it`s membership who, from the evidence of a huge number of online posts, absolutely do not understand it and have an ingrained and irrational fear of it.

 

3 hours ago, JJsDad said:

Reading through some of the posts on here, I can totally understand why BASC et al released their statement without discussion.

In other words:   Don’t bother discussing anything with the plebs who provide your funds.   Keep them in the dark as far as possible.   If they ask to see actual evidence, ignore the request and carry on repeating the same old mantra.   Pretend to know what you are talking about, even when you have obviously never read the scientific papers to which you refer.   Don’t be afraid of insulting the peasants, just keep telling they are too thick to understand the issues involved.

A sneering attitude reminiscent of the unsuccessful anti-Brexit campaign.  

I have been a member of both BASC and CA for many decades, and would like to see all the organisations flourish and prosper, but I am afraid you two are NOT helping them to retain members.

[clangerman]

2 hours ago, McSpredder said:

 

 

In other words:   Don’t bother discussing anything with the plebs who provide your funds.   Keep them in the dark as far as possible.   If they ask to see actual evidence, ignore the request and carry on repeating the same old mantra.   Pretend to know what you are talking about, even when you have obviously never read the scientific papers to which you refer.   Don’t be afraid of insulting the peasants, just keep telling they are too thick to understand the issues involved.

A sneering attitude reminiscent of the unsuccessful anti-Brexit campaign.  

I have been a member of both BASC and CA for many decades, and would like to see all the organisations flourish and prosper, but I am afraid you two are NOT helping them to retain members.

i think you nailed it perfectly the denial really annoys me a multi million pound organisation should have no problem fighting our corner and people just deny or pretend they do nothing wrong the lead ban is a perfect example we gave the opposition something for nothing and it’s fine annoys me no end 

[udderlyoffroad]

13 hours ago, JJsDad said:

here is no lead ban or ban on plastic wads and yet we have people rushing off to get their chokes reamed out, calling for the resignation of the BASC management, packing in shooting and not renewing their shooting org memberships.

The GL fiasco showed a worryingly low level of reading comprehension ('how do I apply for a general licence'?) amongst people, who nominally are entrusted with guns.  That or they appeared completely incapable of researching things on the internet in 2019.

 

13 hours ago, andrewluke said:

i won't be renewing with BASC so will have to give up my wildfowling

13 hours ago, mick miller said:

Or standing by your principles. One or t'other.

12 hours ago, B725 said:

Fair enough its a shame it has come to that and you have to give up your wildfowling. I cannot fault you for standing by your principles. 

What will that achieve, exactly?

If you remain a member, not only can continue wildfowling (I assume because it's the only insurance your wildfowling club will accept - please correct me if I'm wrong), but you can also continue to vote in BASC council elections....I.e. you have a voice.  Who is to say a candidate for BASC chairman won't come forward who will run on the basis of reversing this policy and opposing any lead ban, ever.  You could then vote for him, and if enough people who feel similarly do....

Or you could just chuck that £70 pa membership in, not get to go wildfowling and post disgruntled messages on a forum.

Nose and face indeed.

[andrewluke]

3 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

The GL fiasco showed a worryingly low level of reading comprehension ('how do I apply for a general licence'?) amongst people, who nominally are entrusted with guns.  That or they appeared completely incapable of researching things on the internet in 2019.

 

What will that achieve, exactly?

If you remain a member, not only can continue wildfowling (I assume because it's the only insurance your wildfowling club will accept - please correct me if I'm wrong), but you can also continue to vote in BASC council elections....I.e. you have a voice.  Who is to say a candidate for BASC chairman won't come forward who will run on the basis of reversing this policy and opposing any lead ban, ever.  You could then vote for him, and if enough people who feel similarly do....

Or you could just chuck that £70 pa membership in, not get to go wildfowling and post disgruntled messages on a forum.

Nose and face indeed.

do i support BASC because you are happy with them or do i not support them because i'm unhappy with them?,

this is not the only topic i'm not happy with,when i've contacted BASC in the past for help they were useless and dont practice what they preach

[clangerman]

stick to your guns i never now I look a idiot what’s the story on the insurance are you saying your forced to use basc insurance 

[andrewluke]

18 minutes ago, clangerman said:

stick to your guns i never now I look a idiot what’s the story on the insurance are you saying your forced to use basc insurance 

is this meant for me?,if so BASC is part of the wildfowling clubs subs,you have no choice but to become a member of BASC

Edited March 5, 2020 by andrewluke

[udderlyoffroad]

2 hours ago, andrewluke said:

do i support BASC because you are happy with them or do i not support them because i'm unhappy with them?,

Whether I'm happy is irrelevant.

But for the record, there's a few "home truths" I'd like to explain, in a calm manner, to BASC's board, given the chance.  I'd use small words and visual aids to ensure I got my point across. 😁

But, given your club requires membership, I still don't see why you wouldn't just pay them through gritted teeth, rather than giving up on wildfowling?

Fine, you're a man of principles.  To be admired.

My point is, by excluding yourself from the club, guaranteed nothing will change.  At least if you stay in, you can be heard.  You can got to Member's events, vote in council elections, etc.  Ok it may feel like yelling into the wind, but I fail to see how anyone wins from your current strategy.

BASC loses their subs, you have to stay at home whilst your mates go 'fowling.

[clangerman]

8 minutes ago, andrewluke said:

is this meant for me?,if so BASC is part of the wildfowling clubs subs,you have no choice but to become a member of BASC

ah all is clear now thanks if clubs insist you use basc i won’t be joining one you should be free to take insurance wherever you like 

[andrewluke]

3 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Whether I'm happy is irrelevant.

But for the record, there's a few "home truths" I'd like to explain, in a calm manner, to BASC's board, given the chance.  I'd use small words and visual aids to ensure I got my point across. 😁

But, given your club requires membership, I still don't see why you wouldn't just pay them through gritted teeth, rather than giving up on wildfowling?

Fine, you're a man of principles.  To be admired.

My point is, by excluding yourself from the club, guaranteed nothing will change.  At least if you stay in, you can be heard.  You can got to Member's events, vote in council elections, etc.  Ok it may feel like yelling into the wind, but I fail to see how anyone wins from your current strategy.

BASC loses their subs, you have to stay at home whilst your mates go 'fowling.

i've paid my BASC subs for years hoping things would get better but can see that it's not going to happen so now seems to be the right time to stop contributing to BASC

[clangerman]

11 minutes ago, andrewluke said:

i've paid my BASC subs for years hoping things would get better but can see that it's not going to happen so now seems to be the right time to stop contributing to BASC

why do people persist this is a basc thing there is NOTHING wrong with basc as soon as the mismanagement is removed there will be a stampede to rejoin i will go out of my way to encourage membership of basc as i’m sure will everyone else WHEN the right people are in charge 

[Pushandpull]

If you are not involved, it will not be obvious that the relationship between most wildfowling clubs and BASC is a bit more than the provision of insurance. There is of course the historical fact that the post-war growth of WAGBI and then BASC was largely driven by those clubs, and at one time WAGBI was instrumental in obtaining leases. Many older fowlers have a great sentimental attachment to WAGBI and the days when their head office was simply "Headquarters".

More to the point, BASC have inserted themselves into the relationship between clubs and their landlords who are in most cases the Crown Estate. They also represent fowling interests on the Joint Tidal Group. Disaffiliation by a club and its members is not a simple or easy step, although it is being considered here and there around the country at present.

[greylag]

All very well bad mouthing BASC,and yes they are far from perfect but at heart they are the voice of a huge amount of shooting people.Without them and the other organisations there would be very little shooting of live game in this country.Who do people think we're at the forefront of the general license debate,because believe me if it was left to the likes of NRW and Natural England  WJ would have had there way and all the freedom we have at the moment would have been taken away.As far as packing in wildfowling because of the lead debacle ,I think you would live to regret the decision.Better to fight within than look from the outside .We need to stick together,and not go off in splinter groups.

 

 

N

 

[JJsDad]

39 minutes ago, greylag said:

All very well bad mouthing BASC,and yes they are far from perfect but at heart they are the voice of a huge amount of shooting people.Without them and the other organisations there would be very little shooting of live game in this country.Who do people think we're at the forefront of the general license debate,because believe me if it was left to the likes of NRW and Natural England  WJ would have had there way and all the freedom we have at the moment would have been taken away.As far as packing in wildfowling because of the lead debacle ,I think you would live to regret the decision.Better to fight within than look from the outside .We need to stick together,and not go off in splinter groups.

There speaks the voice of reason and common sence,  rather than some of the hysterical reactions to the BASC et al announcement that have been quoted here and elsewhere.

Edited March 5, 2020 by JJsDad

[lancer425]

16 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

There speaks the voice of reason and common sence,  rather than some of the hysterical reactions to the BASC et al announcement that have been quoted here and elsewhere.

Absolutely. Without BASC we would be in a very vulnerable position.   This is just not a big enough deal to lose any blood over.

[udderlyoffroad]

23 minutes ago, andrewluke said:

've paid my BASC subs for years hoping things would get better but can see that it's not going to happen so now seems to be the right time to stop contributing to BASC

You tried nothing, that didn't work, so you're giving up?

What ever happened to engaging?

 

13 minutes ago, Pushandpull said:

If you are not involved, it will not be obvious that the relationship between most wildfowling clubs and BASC is a bit more than the provision of insurance. There is of course the historical fact that the post-war growth of WAGBI and then BASC was largely driven by those clubs, and at one time WAGBI was instrumental in obtaining leases. Many older fowlers have a great sentimental attachment to WAGBI and the days when their head office was simply "Headquarters".

More to the point, BASC have inserted themselves into the relationship between clubs and their landlords who are in most cases the Crown Estate. They also represent fowling interests on the Joint Tidal Group. Disaffiliation by a club and its members is not a simple or easy step, although it is being considered here and there around the country at present.

Interesting background, thanks.  Did not know that.

 

27 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

There speaks the voice of reason and common sence

+1

[lancer425]

17 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

You tried nothing, that didn't work, so you're giving up?

What ever happened to engaging?

 

Interesting background, thanks.  Did not know that.

 

+1

Oh yes The help basc do to help shooters is immeasurable and the subscription cheap at twice  the price, JTG the help with consents advice on legal matters negotiations with the crown Natural England. Just things that go on everyday at BASc. they do not make a big fuss about all this maybe they should. but they chose to just carry on helping advising and supporting its members not just the  Wildfowling clubs.  All this talk of failure let down mismanagement. they have had Difficulties in upper management, but this really has not impacted their work on the ground one bit.  I see no bad in BASC they look good where i am stood. If people  think differently then get out more your not seeing things as they really are. 

Edited March 5, 2020 by lancer425

[clangerman]

2 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

The help basc do to help shooters is imeasurable and the subscription is more than worth the price, JTG the help with consents advice on legal matters negotiations with the crown Natural England. Just things that go on everyday at BASc. they do not make a big fuss about all this maybe they should. but they chose to just carry on helping advising and supporting its members not just the  Wildfowling clubs.  All this talk of failure let down mismanagement. they have had Difficulties in upper management, but this really has not impacted their work on the ground one bit.  I see no bad in BASC they look good where i am stood. If you think differently then get out more your not seeing things as they really are. 

people can see EXACTLY how things are if the basc management has done no wrong we would not be having this discussion 

[lancer425]

3 minutes ago, clangerman said:

people can see EXACTLY how things are if the basc management has done no wrong we would not be having this discussion 

This discusion was born to calm down runaway horses, an atempt to shut the gate near the big road nothing else, just to calm down and encourage patience.

[clangerman]

5 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

This discusion was born to calm down runaway horses, an atempt to shut the gate near the big road nothing else, just to calm down and encourage patience.

nobody can say members have not been more than patient with basc management it’s no good waiting until we are sat holding nothing more than a catapult saying how did that happen? 

[andrewluke]

15 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

Oh yes The help basc do to help shooters is immeasurable and the subscription cheap at twice  the price, JTG the help with consents advice on legal matters negotiations with the crown Natural England. Just things that go on everyday at BASc. they do not make a big fuss about all this maybe they should. but they chose to just carry on helping advising and supporting its members not just the  Wildfowling clubs.  All this talk of failure let down mismanagement. they have had Difficulties in upper management, but this really has not impacted their work on the ground one bit.  I see no bad in BASC they look good where i am stood. If people  think differently then get out more your not seeing things as they really are. 

BASC tried to shaft our club a couple of years ago when dealing with our leases,no club committee members were allowed in when negotiations were taking place ,when Basc came back to the club they had negotiated a cracking deal,we could continue shooting on our marshes but were told that we could not shoot mallard,wigeon,teal or pintail????,club queried the decision which was then reversed,

when i needed help with application for fac i was passed pillar to post,the last guy i spoke to said he could not speak to my firearms dept manager as he did want not to upset her because his certificate was with the same firearms dept???

[panoma1]

Let’s all stop supporting BASC........and we can all just watch, as the snowflakes and antis flush shooting down the pan!........

[lancer425]

1 minute ago, andrewluke said:

BASC tried to shaft our club a couple of years ago when dealing with our leases,no club committee members were allowed in when negotiations were taking place ,when Basc came back to the club they had negotiated a cracking deal,we could continue shooting on our marshes but were told that we could not shoot mallard,wigeon,teal or pintail????,club queried the decision which was then reversed,

when i needed help with application for fac i was passed pillar to post,the last guy i spoke to said he could not speak to my firearms dept manager as he did want not to upset her because his certificate was with the same firearms dept???

Not knowing the exact details of your clubs predicament when you asked for BASCs assistance, it is hard to comment. But given our experiences with BASC in handling our affairs, i can only say i see only positives. 

4 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Let’s all stop supporting BASC........and we can all just watch, as the snowflakes and antis flush shooting down the pan!........

Too true.

[clangerman]

1 minute ago, panoma1 said:

Let’s all stop supporting BASC........and we can all just watch, as the snowflakes and antis flush shooting down the pan!........

sat on the rape tomorrow my uppermost thought will be if everyone keeps denying the basc MANAGEMENT have done no wrong how much longer will i be able to look out on my pattern and that is what you should be asking your self 

[lancer425]

23 minutes ago, clangerman said:

nobody can say members have not been more than patient with basc management it’s no good waiting until we are sat holding nothing more than a catapult saying how did that happen? 

Ok ill play.

 Lets be hearing specific thing in detail that BASC have so terribly LET YOU OR US ALL DOWN ? Not more generalisations but  specific details now. WHERE.? the stage is yours. We are all ears.

4 minutes ago, clangerman said:

sat on the rape tomorrow my uppermost thought will be if everyone keeps denying the basc MANAGEMENT have done no wrong how much longer will i be able to look out on my pattern and that is what you should be asking your self 

Longer with them than without BASC that is a certainty.

[clangerman]

Just now, lancer425 said:

Ok ill play.

 Lets be hearing specific thing in detail that BASC have so terribly LET YOU OR US ALL DOWN ? Not more generalisations but  specific details now. WHERE.? the stage is yours. We are all ears.

i’m positive nobody wishs to play when shooting is at stake certainly not me there is more than enough complaints on here to prove basc management need to go NOT basc  and if you are happy thats not the case unfortunately time will prove me right in the same way as we will still be knee deep in unwanted steel shot game in due coarse