Tightening up freehand groups

[Lloyd90]

Hello gents, do any of you shoot in clubs with shooting galleries? 
 

I have recently joined one as a probationary member and I entered a competition for a bit of fun, shooting sporting rifle. 
 

Initily I did use the club Ruger 10/22 which were fun but the triggers are rubbish so when the cards come out I will use my Anschutz 1422. I shot a few groups with it last night and got all 10 in the black inner circle but would just like some tips etc on tightening them up if possible. 
 

I also shot the club 38/357 lever which also was great fun, and managed to get all 10 on 2 cards I shot (20 total) in the black, any further tips on there? I shot 38 special. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Are you asking about shooting technique?

1. Breathing.

2. Solid shooting position.

3. Timing.

[Lloyd90]

20 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Are you asking about shooting technique?

1. Breathing.

2. Solid shooting position.

3. Timing.

Yes, stance, position, mounting the rifle, trigger technique, any exercises you can do to help you hold the rifle steady at that distance etc. 👍🏻👍🏻

[Scully]

When out shooting bunnies freehand with my .22rf, I have the sling shortened to the correct length to make it tight around my forearm/elbow when in the shooting position. But with or without a sling my technique is the same.
I bring the rifle slightly up above the target, take a breath and trickle it out as I lower the cross hairs onto the rabbits head, stop breathing out and squeeze the trigger. No hesitation or you create wobble. The second those cross hairs are on target I stop breathing and squeeze the trigger. Works very well, and although my description sounds lengthy and complicated, in practise the entire method takes around three seconds. Try it, you’ll be impressed. 

[Rob85]

What position are you shooting in?Natural alignment is key. Adjust your whole body to the target by moving your feet and/or whole body if youre prone. don't move the rifle with just your arms.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

39 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Yes, stance, position, mounting the rifle, trigger technique, any exercises you can do to help you hold the rifle steady at that distance etc. 👍🏻👍🏻

Practice, practice, practice!

[Walker570]

As TC says , practise makes perfect.  In our sniper training we used to do run downs from 400yrds, stopping every 50 to fire two shots run to the next ..repeat  repeat down to 50 then two shots standing unsupported. All time limited on exposures and movement and by the time we reached 50yrds your chest was heaving. Mount rifle lean back ever so slightly and pull left elbow into chest and let the cross hairs move slowly up and down across the bull and time your trigger release as it passed on the upward movement.  It was amazing how  good a groups could be shot BUT as said PRACTISE PRACTISE PRACTISE ....THEN PRACTISE SOME MORE and you can do this dry firing in your front room till it becomes natural.

[Stuarta]

Close your eyes and mount your rifle pointing toward the target. Open your eyes and and look where the rifle is pointing. keep the rifle still and move your feet so the target is on the end of the foresight. Close your eyes and remount the rifle, even if you are only slightly left or right of the target move your feet and repeat. This way you will get what target shooter call, the natural point of aim.

this takes tension out of the muscles especially in your shoulders and arms pushing or pulling the sights onto the target. This over a course of fire this will result in tighter groups as your muscles will not tire or cramp.

shotgun shooter you only focus on the bird or clay and point the gun, if you focus on the bead at the end of the barrel you will invariably miss, if you are using open sights on a rifle or pistol you must focus on the position of the foresight in the backlight, eyes can only focus on one thing at a time and with open sights it must be the foresight position, the target will be slightly blurred but thats fine. With telescopic sights it is easy to see a clear target and crosshairs at the same time but not so much fun.

stuart

[welshwarrior]

Shooting accurate tight groups is simply applying the marksmanship principles.  
Now lots of people can recite them backwards whilst standing on their heads. A lot less understand them few and truly apply them all constantly. 

[malmick]

@Lloyd90You don't say what distance and what size targets or groups your'e shooting. I would say if you are shooting with appropriate calibre for range then if you are shooting offhand groups within four minutes of angle then you are on the right track. Our freestanding sporting comps are 20 yards and 50 yards/50m and some of the guys in Div 1 have got average groups comfortably within this.

There's some good pointers above but I've seen lots of variation on stance and hold produce similarly good effects. Shooting off the right shoulder I like to use a stance with my left elbow tucked in to my torso, forearm upright with left hand just in front of the trigger guard. However, after I'd finished my last round of comp cards I did some playing around by holding the fore end much further forwards, a bit more like I hold a shotgun. I shot several strings of 5 shots (magazines), for each string I kept the rifle up, cycled the bolt quickly and fired fairly instinctively on target. I was surprised to see how little the group sizes opened up.

So I'm guessing loads of practice and applying the right principles fairly consistently is the way to go.

[1066]

I shoot these competitions regularly with both my Winchester 64AE in .357 mag and either my very old Voere semi-auto or Sako finnfire 22lr. Although there are various competitions the usual NSRA type are shot at 20 or 25 yards, free standing, no sling allowed and often different classification for open sights or optics.

The ones I shoot are what you might call "open" class so optical sights can be used, slow fire, so very little time pressure. The large bore (.38/.357/.44 etc) are shot on PL12 NSRA cards with a black of 14cm's. The .22lr are shot on the PL14 targets with a black of about 9cm.

As already said - practice, practice and more practice - try and think about each shot, why it was good or bad, don't be content to just whack them down the range and hope for the best.

I think the biggest factor that loses the most points, when shooting offhand, is trigger control - a slow squeeze directly back in line with the barrel. The shot might end up as an 8 because you are wobbling about a bit but trying to snatch the trigger as you float past the bull will often give you a 4.

If it was easy it would be no fun.

Here's a 99 I shot offhand a couple of weeks ago with my .357.

[malmick]

Good shooting there 1066, I bet that 64AE in .357 is a lovely rifle to shoot offhand. My favourite .22 rifle to use in comps is my Aschutz 1422 sporter with a very slick (well used) 54 match action.

I agree with you completely about trigger control, my own comp experience mainly comes from match pistol and you get very good at calling the shots in those disciplines.

I used to administer and score a sporting air rifle comp for one of the clubs I'm in and that used the 10m air pistol 4/89 target at 20 yards. Shooting that really focuses the attention.

 

[Lloyd90]

On 20/03/2020 at 11:56, 1066 said:

I shoot these competitions regularly with both my Winchester 64AE in .357 mag and either my very old Voere semi-auto or Sako finnfire 22lr. Although there are various competitions the usual NSRA type are shot at 20 or 25 yards, free standing, no sling allowed and often different classification for open sights or optics.

The ones I shoot are what you might call "open" class so optical sights can be used, slow fire, so very little time pressure. The large bore (.38/.357/.44 etc) are shot on PL12 NSRA cards with a black of 14cm's. The .22lr are shot on the PL14 targets with a black of about 9cm.

As already said - practice, practice and more practice - try and think about each shot, why it was good or bad, don't be content to just whack them down the range and hope for the best.

I think the biggest factor that loses the most points, when shooting offhand, is trigger control - a slow squeeze directly back in line with the barrel. The shot might end up as an 8 because you are wobbling about a bit but trying to snatch the trigger as you float past the bull will often give you a 4.

If it was easy it would be no fun.

Here's a 99 I shot offhand a couple of weeks ago with my .357.

 

Damn good shooting, is that open sights? I will have to start wearing my glasses I think. 

On 19/03/2020 at 14:53, malmick said:

@Lloyd90You don't say what distance and what size targets or groups your'e shooting. I would say if you are shooting with appropriate calibre for range then if you are shooting offhand groups within four minutes of angle then you are on the right track. Our freestanding sporting comps are 20 yards and 50 yards/50m and some of the guys in Div 1 have got average groups comfortably within this.

There's some good pointers above but I've seen lots of variation on stance and hold produce similarly good effects. Shooting off the right shoulder I like to use a stance with my left elbow tucked in to my torso, forearm upright with left hand just in front of the trigger guard. However, after I'd finished my last round of comp cards I did some playing around by holding the fore end much further forwards, a bit more like I hold a shotgun. I shot several strings of 5 shots (magazines), for each string I kept the rifle up, cycled the bolt quickly and fired fairly instinctively on target. I was surprised to see how little the group sizes opened up.

So I'm guessing loads of practice and applying the right principles fairly consistently is the way to go.

 

Its 20 yards I believe. No practice atm though, everything shut down 😞 

On 18/03/2020 at 19:20, welshwarrior said:

Shooting accurate tight groups is simply applying the marksmanship principles.  
Now lots of people can recite them backwards whilst standing on their heads. A lot less understand them few and truly apply them all constantly. 

Well, what are they  

[welshwarrior]

 

The shooting position and hold must be firm enough to support the rifle

The rifle must point naturally at the target without any undue physical effort.

Sight alignment and sight picture must be correct.

The shot must be released and followed through without undue disturbance to the position.

[1066]

7 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

 

Damn good shooting, is that open sights? I will have to start wearing my glasses I think. 

 

 

Thank you but no, unfortunately the 70 year old peepers struggle a bit now with open sights - I have a little White Tail classic 2.5-5 x 20 scope on the Winchester. It's a pleasure to shoot using low load of Unique with a cast 158gn bullet.