Non Lead

[stagboy]

27 minutes ago, London Best said:

And not being very good for Grandad’s old Purdey.

In the current crisis (and its follow-on economic shock, which could take a decade to sort), who gives a stuff about the investment value of ancient Purdeys. 

Edited April 1, 2020 by stagboy

[Newbie to this]

23 minutes ago, stagboy said:

who gives a stuff about the investment value of ancient Purdeys

Maybe someone with ancient Purdeys 

[London Best]

1 hour ago, stagboy said:

In the current crisis (and its follow-on economic shock, which could take a decade to sort), who gives a stuff about the investment value of ancient Purdeys. 

Sod the investment value! Some folks appreciate using a quality gun. And no, I don’t have a Purdey and nor did Grandad.

[enfieldspares]

Purdey. The the gun for those that aspire to "best London made" but, like King George VI, can't quite afford it.

[London Best]

Yeah!

[enfieldspares]

Yeah! LOL! Purdey? Not for me. I use one of these. 

Edited April 1, 2020 by enfieldspares

[London Best]

22 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

Yeah! LOL! Purdey? Not for me. I use one of these. 

Looks pretty enough but I can’t identify it from the pic. 
Something appears to be wrong though.......did you realise one of your triggers has fallen off?

Just kidding, no offence meant.

[enfieldspares]

Oh! No! I'll be wanting my money back! It's a Boss, of course, always wanted one from reading Purdey's book "The Shotgun" oddly enough, when I was twelve or so,  and the poem "The Battle of the Guns".

Heres no occasion to be wordy,
my guns the gun! said Mr Purdey.

No gun but mine is worth a toss!
thus spoke the valiant Mr Boss.

You may in your armchair lolland

shoot with mine! quoth Mr Holland.

Find me a gun like mine! you cant!
thus up and spoke bold Mr Grant.

Just try my gun!now that's your style ,eh?
remarked irreverent Mr Meilly.

My gun will make your play go bang,
and give you game! punned Mr Lang.

A good gun needs no note of bugle!
observed sententious Mr Dougal.

No gun could neater be, or cleaner,
than mine is! pleaded Mr Greener.

On my guns fame no rival can cast a slur!
quoth worthy Mr Lancaster.

no gun can beat our gun, we say!
thus proudly Messrs. Moore and Grey.

Oh not for worlds would I speak coarsley,
but some folk fib, sighed Mr Horsley.

Prevent your shoulder getting kicks on,
and use my gun cried Mr Dickson.

all sportsman have for mine good word !
rejoined discreetly Mr Woodward.

On better barrels never shone sun than mine!
quoth modest Mr Johnson.

No other gun has got a leg, to stand on!
boasted Mr Egg.

The best of guns ( to say it i glad am)`s mine!
said honest Mr Adams

My gun is the best gun, confess`dly!
adjusted Mr Richards (Westley).

To find a word on which to pitch hard`s

for a rhyme with Westley Richards .

But had to wait until I was in my late fifties to actually buy one. Purdey guns never floated my boat...over complicated IMHO...even though I have shot one way back and briefly owned a Holland. But I also think that a fully engraved Lang gun is nicer than any Holland. But of all the gun fitting places Holland's do it best. But just ask them to give you "normal" specification not their bespoke "swept" style.

The best looking of the Spanish guns is the old Gunmark Kestrel. I bought my son one, secondhand, for about £600. It's "engraving" and brushed white metal finish to the action (which is rolled on actually I believe) is just nicer to look at than the hammer and chisel job and cyanide colouring of any AyA No2. 

Edited April 1, 2020 by enfieldspares

[lancer425]

Non lead wont damage any old gun nor will it under perform .

Edited April 1, 2020 by lancer425

[London Best]

I have shot for 59 seasons and used lots of different makes of guns, Spanish and mostly English, both as a gun and as a loader. I always wanted a “best London made gun” and when I started to do a lot of loading I got to handle many different ones. Some of the Purdey’s handled ok, but I found that many didn’t suit me (obviously, they were not made or fitted for me). I liked the handling of most of the Langs and Grants and Atkins, and also the Boss guns. I found the Churchill Premieres felt absolutely superb, to my tastes. Even the Mackay Browns suited me, although they were O/Us, and most of those feel like planks (to me!). But I rarely handled a Holland and Holland which didn’t feel “right” in my hands. I settled eventually ( when I could finally justify the cost) on a Holland Royal Brevis self-opener made in 1930 and had it fitted at H&H. I have used it for the last 8 seasons and have no intention of ever using anything else for game shooting.

Edited April 1, 2020 by London Best

[B725]

1 hour ago, London Best said:

I have shot for 59 seasons and used lots of different makes of guns, Spanish and mostly English, both as a gun and as a loader. I always wanted a “best London made gun” and when I started to do a lot of loading I got to handle many different ones. Some of the Purdey’s handled ok, but I found that many didn’t suit me (obviously, they were not made or fitted for me). I liked the handling of most of the Langs and Grants and Atkins, and also the Boss guns. I found the Churchill Premieres felt absolutely superb, to my tastes. Even the Mackay Browns suited me, although they were O/Us, and most of those feel like planks (to me!). But I rarely handled a Holland and Holland which didn’t feel “right” in my hands. I settled eventually ( when I could finally justify the cost) on a Holland Royal Brevis self-opener made in 1930 and had it fitted at H&H. I have used it for the last 8 seasons and have no intention of ever using anything else for game shooting.

Any chance of a picture please.

[London Best]

1 minute ago, B725 said:

Any chance of a picture please.

[B725]

Now that is very nice thankyou .👍

[London Best]

7 minutes ago, B725 said:

Any chance of a picture please.

[enfieldspares]

Holland's 1922 Patent. Holland's spring tube was a sublime design of pure genius. Did with three parts what Beesley (as in the Purdey) did with a whole basket full of limbs, springs, cams, lifters and levers!

I had a pair of 16 bore single trigger sidelocks with Holland's spring tube system. Somerton Guns which were actually top end Arietta guns.

My two French boxlocks, Manufrance Model 28E one in 12 bore and one in 16 bore have the Saint Etienne version of it. The picture below of it I've posted isn't of either of my guns however it of a Model 28E from the internet.

Edited April 1, 2020 by enfieldspares

[Stonepark]

8 hours ago, enfieldspares said:

 The picture below of it I've posted isn't of either of my guns however it of a Model 28E from the internet.

The Russian Purdey......

Edited April 2, 2020 by Stonepark

[London Best]

 Very interesting. I was not aware of the Manufrance version. Thank you.

[cardigun]

I would be interested to see a Purdey Self opening action, and H&H self opening action in pieces, side by side to see the number of parts.

[Old farrier]

10 minutes ago, cardigun said:

I would be interested to see a Purdey Self opening action, and H&H self opening action in pieces, side by side to see the number of parts.

I’d be interested to see it put back together afterward 😂😂

im sure there’s a utube of the assembly of a purdey I’ll try and find it 

[enfieldspares]

The Holland's is all under the barrel. Effectively it is a tube, a "compressor" and a spring that can in fact be removed in its entirety from under the barrels and the gun will still function perfectly. Here's a recent article about it:

https://hirvikota.wordpress.com/2019/04/30/holland-holland-the-royal-simply-the-best-the-field/

Here's a picture of Holland's system. I can't find a picture of the Purdey completely disassembled but I've seen enough so disassembled on gunsmith's benches to be intimidated such as to never want one for myself.

Edited April 2, 2020 by enfieldspares

[London Best]

Do you know what system the Boss sidelocks use? I mean the cocking/firing mechanism, as well as the self opening.

[enfieldspares]

The standard Boss works off the ejectors pressing, powered by coil springs, against the breech face. So an easy opener that only self opens if it hasn't been fired.

The small number of true self opening Boss guns use a set of, either side, a V spring and lifter. Here's a link to an interesting article. Holland's system is superior IMHO in that it is simpler and doesn't need the action stripped to say nothing of the benefit of using (as do Boss ejectors as noted) coil springs.

https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/the-boss-self-opener

[London Best]

Thank you very much for that explanation and link.  
Boss really are beautiful guns. I think I prefer the fine rose and scroll as found on Purdey and Boss guns to the acanthus on Holland’s. But I do love my H&H. I am especially fond of it’s exquisite handling more than any other feature.

[cardigun]

E.S

Thank you for all that information. I note that all the parts of the H&H opener, are outside the Gun lock.

On the Purdey, apart from the lever that kicks the barrels open, everything else is inside the action, and are existing parts of the Lock, doing double duty.

So the basketfull of extra parts is a bit of an exaggeration?

k.

[enfieldspares]

Maybe a bit but it makes the point for don't forget that like the Boss self-opening system you need the bits you have on the left side also in duplicate on the right side. The Holland 1922 Patent has one set of bits only. Centrally between the barrels. And a part that is independent of the process of either cocking the gun or powering the hammers.