Update from BASC / DEFRA

[clangerman]

Just now, Konor said:

You seem keen to put words in my mouth to move away from the point. If you have no intention of following the guidelines as you stated then you are part of the problem. I have no opinion on your daughters hidden hero status or how you think it somehow adds weight to your declaration not to follow the guidelines.
If I’m following your reasoning you seem to blame the government for unnecessary deaths for not closing the borders earlier and are using this as a justification for not following guidelines aimed at limiting the death toll. Bizarre 

the most bizarre thing is the constant stay in stay in but is anyone shouting it telling the police they don’t know how to do their job NO because they are to scared so they come on here trying to dictate to those who do go if i was against going i would at least have the guts to take it up with those allowing it 

[lancer425]

8 minutes ago, Scully said:

Rhetorical as in attempting to persuade others by use of emotional language...’ at all costs’. 
Shooters don’t have any ‘rights’ that I’m aware of; I’m merely stating that as adults, ( regardless of whether we are shooters or not ) we have to apply common sense to the choices we make within the boundaries we are set. 
I am satisfied that I am doing as the government have asked, maybe not to the letter admittedly, but in doing so am putting no one at risk. That’s all I need to know. 

So your making up tour own rules in that case. Why when others are flowing the rules are you adjusting the rules to fit in with what you think is right for the country and others.

 Are you very special or just a little bit special.

[Konor]

2 minutes ago, clangerman said:

the most bizarre thing is the constant stay in stay in but is anyone shouting it telling the police they don’t know how to do their job NO because they are to scared so they come on here trying to dictate to those who do go if i was against going i would at least have the guts to take it up with those allowing it 

Sorry but I don’t think your reply is relevant to my post which you are referring to

[clangerman]

8 minutes ago, Konor said:

Sorry but I don’t think your reply is relevant to my post which you are referring to

when it comes to the guidelines or how they came about I think it’s all relevant not that it makes a difference to my decision to turn out only the constant stay in stay in makes me that determined to go 

[Konor]

Just now, clangerman said:

when it comes to the guidelines or how they came about I think it’s all relevant not that it makes a difference to my decision to turn out only the constant stay in stay in makes me that determined to go 

So have I got this right.

Because you feel you are being bullied or talked down to by people posting here dictating to you that you should be staying in,

(and by doing so following the guidelines designed to limit the spread of the virus and minimise the death toll),

That makes you more determined to go out and risk spreading the virus and increasing the death toll.

I understand and empathise with your reaction to being dictated to but equally feel it would be better and safer in the long run if people were to stay at home for the reasons already mentioned.

[andrewluke]

2 minutes ago, Konor said:

So have I got this right.

Because you feel you are being bullied or talked down to by people posting here dictating to you that you should be staying in,

(and by doing so following the guidelines designed to limit the spread of the virus and minimise the death toll),

That makes you more determined to go out and risk spreading the virus and increasing the death toll.

I understand and empathise with your reaction to being dictated to but equally feel it would be better and safer in the long run if people were to stay at home for the reasons already mentioned.

surely if it's safe enough for my son to go to work in M&S then it's even safer to go for a shot

[Old farrier]

4 minutes ago, andrewluke said:

surely if it's safe enough for my son to go to work in M&S then it's even safer to go for a shot

I’m assuming you’re son is going to work for his job 

unless you’re a professional pest controller you’ve been asked to stay at home 

there are many things we would like to do and feel that we are not at risk doing them however it’s not the right thing to do in this situation 

 

[Konor]

4 minutes ago, andrewluke said:

surely if it's safe enough for my son to go to work in M&S then it's even safer to go for a shot

I don’t know how that would be possible to calculate.

However as Iceland has tested 10% of their population and discovered that 50% of those found positive were asymptomatic I think that it would be easy to be complacent ,after all if you are displaying no symptoms you would expect not to be a danger to anyone else but these figures indicate an “unseen “threat that I feel we should be aware of and so take steps to minimise our impact on those more vulnerable to infection. 
The bottom line is stay home stay safe.

[southeastpete]

I’m not sure when the word work meant you had to be a paid professional. Are those volunteering in key positions not workers, so they should be fined every time they go to volunteer?

do you have to be paid in money for work, or are you paid in the enjoyment of the work, and the meat of the pigeons...?

i don’t think focussing on the ‘for work’ part will really help you. Then there is the essential part. And if you are arguing crop protection isn’t essential then never shoot another pigeon as you don’t satisfy the general licence.

how on earth is a paid gamekeeper essential? That whole industry is just for a hobby (“sport”) and really shouldn’t be considered essential in comparison to protecting the nations food source.

there are still blooming gardeners going out cutting peoples hedges and lawns! The local vicarage has a guy out on Easter Friday!!

what is more essential, hobbies, gardening, or protecting crops....

its clear what side of this everyone is on by now, and no one is going to change the others mind so why not just leave it....

[clangerman]

18 minutes ago, Konor said:

So have I got this right.

Because you feel you are being bullied or talked down to by people posting here dictating to you that you should be staying in,

(and by doing so following the guidelines designed to limit the spread of the virus and minimise the death toll),

That makes you more determined to go out and risk spreading the virus and increasing the death toll.

I understand and empathise with your reaction to being dictated to but equally feel it would be better and safer in the long run if people were to stay at home for the reasons already mentioned.

no anyone trying to dictate is wasting their time I make my decisions as for the guidelines as there is NO contact in a empty field i’m at LESS risk of infecting anyone than sat at home on the outskirts of a large town the numbers prove it 

[southeastpete]

1 minute ago, Konor said:

I don’t know how that would be possible to calculate.

However as Iceland has tested 10% of their population and discovered that 50% of those found positive were asymptomatic I think that it would be easy to be complacent ,after all if you are displaying no symptoms you would expect not to be a danger to anyone else but these figures indicate an “unseen “threat that I feel we should be aware of and so take steps to minimise our impact on those more vulnerable to infection. 
The bottom line is stay home stay safe.

I’d say it’s pretty easy to calculate. I’d start with the number of people you pull come into close proximity with and handle items others handle.

going shooting, 0

working in a shop, anything from dozens to hundreds.

[southeastpete]

Lancer, you wanted evidence of pigeons, go read this thread

 

[Konor]

2 minutes ago, clangerman said:

no anyone trying to dictate is wasting their time I make my decisions as for the guidelines as there is NO contact in a empty field i’m at LESS risk of infecting anyone than sat at home on the outskirts of a large town the numbers prove it 

I believe that sitting in afield anywhere you are of no risk to any one but you didn’t just materialise there you had to travel and any travel outwith the home carries a risk factor.

If you choose not to stay at home you are endangering others as until you are tested you will have no idea whether you are carrying the virus as an infected person nor wil you know if you are carrying the virus as a result of contact with a contaminated surface.

As you say you make your own decisions as does everyone else only some make responsible decisions ,others think  they know better ,I don’t think you know better.

[clangerman]

2 minutes ago, Konor said:

I believe that sitting in afield anywhere you are of no risk to any one but you didn’t just materialise there you had to travel and any travel outwith the home carries a risk factor.

If you choose not to stay at home you are endangering others as until you are tested you will have no idea whether you are carrying the virus as an infected person nor wil you know if you are carrying the virus as a result of contact with a contaminated surface.

As you say you make your own decisions as does everyone else only some make responsible decisions ,others think  they know better ,I don’t think you know better.

thinking you know better is your privilege same as i think for myself so it’s solved all make our own decisions go or stay in 

[Konor]

Just now, clangerman said:

thinking you know better is your privilege same as i think for myself so it’s solved all make our own decisions go or stay in 

I feel your decision should be based on the best possible advice not a selfish desire to continue with your hobby. You should be responsible enough to include the safety of others in your decision making process but apparently you are not.

As I wrote in my first reply post you are part of the problem your opinions here have reinforced that. 

If you are not responsible enough to follow simple advice aimed at controlling the pandemic it’s questionable whether you are responsible enough to possess a firearm or shotgun certificate.
 

 

[clangerman]

1 minute ago, Konor said:

I feel your decision should be based on the best possible advice not a selfish desire to continue with your hobby. You should be responsible enough to include the safety of others in your decision making process but apparently you are not.

As I wrote in my first reply post you are part of the problem your opinions here have reinforced that. 

If you are not responsible enough to follow simple advice aimed at controlling the pandemic it’s questionable whether you are responsible enough to possess a firearm or shotgun certificate.
 

 

in the same vein people who try to bully others by dictating to them are unsuitable to own firearms my decisions are made in accordance with the wishes of the police who enforce the rules so take it up with them 

[lancer425]

6 minutes ago, clangerman said:

thinking you know better is your privilege same as i think for myself so it’s solved all make our own decisions go or stay in 

Its on TV every adverts Stay home except for food health or work but only if you can not work from home.

We need to do as we are told, we can not just fudge the rules to suit out whims. Peoples lives are at stake The government keep telling us this .

 Where do we draw the line on making rules up. The sea angler out catching his tea, the trout fisherman doing the same. JUST getting food OFFICER, its safer than going in tesco.

Obey the law stay home. its very simple advice.

[clangerman]

Just now, lancer425 said:

Its on TV every adverts Stay home except for food health or work but only if you can not work from home.

We need to do as we are told, we can not just fudge the rules to suit out whims. Peoples lives are at stake The government keep telling us this .

 Where do we draw the line on making rules up. The sea angler out catching his tea, the trout fisherman doing the same. JUST getting food OFFICER, its safer than going in tesco.

Obey the law stay home. its very simple advice.

if your going to police this like the lead ban all you achieved so far is convince me to take a large slab of lead next time i’m out if your unhappy with the rules take it up with the police 

[Konor]

4 minutes ago, clangerman said:

in the same vein people who try to bully others by dictating to them are unsuitable to own firearms my decisions are made in accordance with the wishes of the police who enforce the rules so take it up with them 

And the rules are no unnecessary travel away from home 

[lancer425]

6 minutes ago, clangerman said:

if your going to police this like the lead ban all you achieved so far is convince me to take a large slab of lead next time i’m out if your unhappy with the rules take it up with the police 

What part of this dont you understand.

Here is the Prime Minister's letter in full:

I am writing to you to update you on the steps we are taking to combat coronavirus.

In just a few short weeks, everyday life in this country has changed dramatically. We all feel the profound impact of coronavirus not just on ourselves, but on our loved ones and our communities.

I understand completely the difficulties this disruption has caused to your lives, businesses and jobs. But the action we have taken is absolutely necessary, for one very simple reason.

 

If too many people become seriously unwell at one time, the NHS will be unable to cope. This will cost lives. We must slow the spread of the disease, and reduce the number of people needing hospital treatment in order to save as many lives as possible.

That is why we are giving one simple instruction — you must stay at home.

You should not meet friends or relatives who do not live in your home. You may only leave your home for very limited purposes, such as buying food and medicine, exercising once a day and seeking medical attention. You can travel to and from work but should work from home if you can.

 

When you do have to leave your home, you should ensure, wherever possible, that you are two metres apart from anyone outside of your household.

These rules must be observed. So, if people break the rules, the police will issue fines and disperse gatherings.

 

 

I know many of you will be deeply worried about the financial impact on you and your family. The Government will do whatever it takes to help you make ends meet and put food on the table.

 

The enclosed leaflet sets out more detail about the support available and the rules you need to follow. You can also find the latest advice at gov.uk/coronavirus.

From the start, we have sought to put in the right measures at the right time. We will not hesitate to go further if that is what the scientific and medical advice tells us we must do.

It's important for me to level with you — we know things will get worse before they get better. But we are making the right preparations, and the more we all follow the rules, the fewer lives will be lost and the sooner life can return to normal.

 

I want to thank everyone who is working flat out to beat the virus, in particular the staff in our fantastic NHS and care sector across England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. It has been truly inspirational to see our doctors, nurses and other carers rise magnificently to the needs of the hour.

Thousands of retired doctors and nurses are returning to the NHS — and hundreds of thousands of citizens are volunteering to help the most vulnerable. It is with that great British spirit that we will beat coronavirus and we will beat it together.

That is why, at this moment of national emergency, I urge you, please, to stay at home, protect the NHS and save lives.

[clangerman]

3 minutes ago, Konor said:

And the rules are no unnecessary travel away from home 

well there’s your answer phone the police and tell them to stop anyone shooting because it’s against the rules why is everyone so reluctant to take it up with the police they enforce the rules 

3 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

What part of this dont you understand.

Here is the Prime Minister's letter in full:

I am writing to you to update you on the steps we are taking to combat coronavirus.

In just a few short weeks, everyday life in this country has changed dramatically. We all feel the profound impact of coronavirus not just on ourselves, but on our loved ones and our communities.

I understand completely the difficulties this disruption has caused to your lives, businesses and jobs. But the action we have taken is absolutely necessary, for one very simple reason.

 

If too many people become seriously unwell at one time, the NHS will be unable to cope. This will cost lives. We must slow the spread of the disease, and reduce the number of people needing hospital treatment in order to save as many lives as possible.

That is why we are giving one simple instruction — you must stay at home.

You should not meet friends or relatives who do not live in your home. You may only leave your home for very limited purposes, such as buying food and medicine, exercising once a day and seeking medical attention. You can travel to and from work but should work from home if you can.

 

When you do have to leave your home, you should ensure, wherever possible, that you are two metres apart from anyone outside of your household.

These rules must be observed. So, if people break the rules, the police will issue fines and disperse gatherings.

 

 

I know many of you will be deeply worried about the financial impact on you and your family. The Government will do whatever it takes to help you make ends meet and put food on the table.

 

The enclosed leaflet sets out more detail about the support available and the rules you need to follow. You can also find the latest advice at gov.uk/coronavirus.

From the start, we have sought to put in the right measures at the right time. We will not hesitate to go further if that is what the scientific and medical advice tells us we must do.

It's important for me to level with you — we know things will get worse before they get better. But we are making the right preparations, and the more we all follow the rules, the fewer lives will be lost and the sooner life can return to normal.

 

I want to thank everyone who is working flat out to beat the virus, in particular the staff in our fantastic NHS and care sector across England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. It has been truly inspirational to see our doctors, nurses and other carers rise magnificently to the needs of the hour.

Thousands of retired doctors and nurses are returning to the NHS — and hundreds of thousands of citizens are volunteering to help the most vulnerable. It is with that great British spirit that we will beat coronavirus and we will beat it together.

That is why, at this moment of national emergency, I urge you, please, to stay at home, protect the NHS and save lives.

i’m probably getting a call to shoot tomorrow so need some sleep same as before if your unhappy take it up with the police they enforce the rules night all 

[Konor]

33 minutes ago, clangerman said:

well there’s your answer phone the police and tell them to stop anyone shooting because it’s against the rules why is everyone so reluctant to take it up with the police they enforce the rules 

i’m probably getting a call to shoot tomorrow so need some sleep same as before if your unhappy take it up with the police they enforce the rules night all 

I’m sure the police will be enforcing the rules unfortunately they will be reacting to a situation that should never have arisen in the first place if shooters like yourself were acting responsibly.

Your selfishness may result in people being put at risk but as long as you have your day out you are completely indifferent. 

“So there’s YOUR answer “follow the governments advice and stay at home or risk spreading the virus by going out ,it really is that simple

 To misquote a line from A Fathers Advice by Mark Beaufoy which I’m sure you’ll be aware of

“all the pigeons  ever bred won’t make up for one man dead”

let that sink in before you head out tomorrow

Edited April 11, 2020 by Konor
Addition

[stuartyboy]

I always thought that the real heroes in this are the frontline NHS staff. But reading this, I realise it's actually all the pigeon shooters out there protecting the fields from hungry hordes. 

Some folk say they are doing it for selfish reasons such as personal enjoyment or being scared to lose their permission, but no. They are superstars answering the call of the farmers.

I'm sure out there somewhere, there is a nurse who has just completed his or hers tenth consecutive 12 hour night shift and while trying to catch a few hours rest midday, they hear the 'pop, pop' in the distance. They rest their weary eyes, content in the knowledge that a true hero is making sure that in a few months they can get a loaf of bread. 

[stuartyboy]

If it's genuine and justified beyond a shadow of a doubt, crack on and good luck to you. But I think a lot of folk posting on here are muppets who want to go shooting for their enjoyment. 

While the folk who genuinely do need to control pests carry on quietly and get the job done with the blessings of landowners and the police.

[motty]

1 hour ago, Konor said:

I’m sure the police will be enforcing the rules unfortunately they will be reacting to a situation that should never have arisen in the first place if shooters like yourself were acting responsibly.

Your selfishness may result in people being put at risk but as long as you have your day out you are completely indifferent. 

“So there’s YOUR answer “follow the governments advice and stay at home or risk spreading the virus by going out ,it really is that simple

 To misquote a line from A Fathers Advice by Mark Beaufoy which I’m sure you’ll be aware of

“all the pigeons  ever bred won’t make up for one man dead”

let that sink in before you head out tomorrow

**** me! The hysteria is chronic!