Guest cookoff013 Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 how did i miss this thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringDon Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, gamekeeper1960 said: Don't know about everywhere but unless you are shooting at the ground in don't see how their stand point is on that one... Think it was off branches etc. I’m still a novice shotgun so I just accept what they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 9 hours ago, Mr gen said: I already think joker are an awesome, cheap cartridge, used them for some time now. I hope they work out such a simple solution to a problem. Its a bit like the space race back in the day, the Americans spent millions on creating a pen that worked in zero gravity the Russians took a pencil, bio degradable plastic and all that malarkey, paper and cork eh? the issue was graphite particles floating around in the air, and could annoy the electronics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HW95J Posted July 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 11 hours ago, gamekeeper1960 said: No worries I'm looking forward to giving them a go...in fact theres a good write up on "shooting uk"... Have just cut it open to see the inside... Very interesting to see the wad, especially as it's comprised of traditional materials. There's been so much focus on biodegradable wads with the same shape as plastic which I can see as being an advantage both in time to break down and in patterns but I wonder if not enough attention was paid to this idea of a paper/cork shot-cup. It's good to have variety on the market and see what works. I don't want to lose lead but change does seem to be happening so we might as well be as informed as possible. If they end up working then I'd have nothing against using them. Would love to see smaller bore sizes of that wad for reloading... Keep us posted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatcatsplat Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 11 hours ago, gamekeeper1960 said: No worries I'm looking forward to giving them a go...in fact theres a good write up on "shooting uk"... Have just cut it open to see the inside... That's a hell of a construction and looks like 6 components to it, but why does that mean steel fibres are double the price - No way on this earth that costs 20p to mass manufacture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HW95J Posted July 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 Well if these can be £45/slab it does make you wonder. It doesn't cost that much more in materials for the additional powder/shot for a game load. I think manufacturers try to justify the cost in relation to marketing and research etc, in reality it's not to do with components. We just get shafted is the take away! It's not like that isn't the case with lead as well, each brand has a million different lines of cartridge and how much difference is there in material cost between say a Black Gold and a Clear Pigeon? Probably nothing like the price difference... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatcatsplat Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, HW95J said: Well if these can be £45/slab it does make you wonder. It doesn't cost that much more in materials for the additional powder/shot for a game load. I think manufacturers try to justify the cost in relation to marketing and research etc, in reality it's not to do with components. We just get shafted is the take away! It's not like that isn't the case with lead as well, each brand has a million different lines of cartridge and how much difference is there in material cost between say a Black Gold and a Clear Pigeon? Probably nothing like the price difference... Hopefully a few people will get in on the game and competition will drive the price down. My wildfowling club has just mandated non-toxic and non-plastic where possible, so would definitely appreciate a price drop - Especially with my cartridge to kill ratio! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted July 17, 2020 Report Share Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, HW95J said: Well if these can be £45/slab it does make you wonder. It doesn't cost that much more in materials for the additional powder/shot for a game load. I think manufacturers try to justify the cost in relation to marketing and research etc, in reality it's not to do with components. We just get shafted is the take away! It's not like that isn't the case with lead as well, each brand has a million different lines of cartridge and how much difference is there in material cost between say a Black Gold and a Clear Pigeon? Probably nothing like the price difference... That’s true of life, they are in business to make money pure and simple like all businesses are, they expect a return on their investment Their is actually a lot of competition in cartridges at manufacture and retail which keep the prices down to you and me. No legal reason, except for wildfowling to use non toxic shot so shoot what’s best for you, that’s what I will be doing, very early days for these new eco friendly biodegradable cartridges. The cardboard in the jockers does not look as strong as use by gamebore in their steel shot cardboard cup wads I wonder how much testing they have done to confirm the shot does not penetrate through to touch the barrel? would also like them all to include the ballistic data on the box, time that CIP made this mandatory for all cartridges. Edited July 17, 2020 by rbrowning2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen-H Posted July 18, 2020 Report Share Posted July 18, 2020 I would like to give these a try! If they could develop a well priced pigeon load it would keep a lot of falconry people happily supplied with woodies! Does anyone in the northwest supply jocker cartridges never seen them in any of my local shops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted July 18, 2020 Report Share Posted July 18, 2020 Wad says 2.50mm steel so UK 6.5, which seems to be born out by pellet count. The triple layer wad (which I sometimes use in my 410 loads) is also interesting. If a 28g was available, would be an acceptable decoying cartridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamekeeper1960 Posted July 19, 2020 Report Share Posted July 19, 2020 Well off I went this morning to Alan Evans fair clay shoot at Litcham to a 100 sporting with a few friends to try out the bio cartridges. .we took a couple of boxes each to shoot with our normal loads to give them a fair trial and to be quite honest they weren't bad, the only draw back was the wad at times took on the appearance of a confetti bomb plus as stonepark suggest they are a little short on shot for long range targets, but on short to medium range they were more than good enough. ..I look forward to seeing them bring them out in a 24g or even 28g form ... I would definitely use them again and am thinking that we have a sim day coming up at the end of August and I'm sure they would be a great cartridge for the occasion. ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 On 19/07/2020 at 23:21, gamekeeper1960 said: Well off I went this morning to Alan Evans fair clay shoot at Litcham to a 100 sporting with a few friends to try out the bio cartridges. .we took a couple of boxes each to shoot with our normal loads to give them a fair trial and to be quite honest they weren't bad, the only draw back was the wad at times took on the appearance of a confetti bomb plus as stonepark suggest they are a little short on shot for long range targets, but on short to medium range they were more than good enough. ..I look forward to seeing them bring them out in a 24g or even 28g form ... I would definitely use them again and am thinking that we have a sim day coming up at the end of August and I'm sure they would be a great cartridge for the occasion. ... Thanks for the update, they may also be a little lacking on energy for the long range targets, you may have hit them and not broken them. confetti is a little worrying they may not have the integrity required to keep the shot away from the bore of the gun. Would be good to try and collect the wads after firing to examine them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamekeeper1960 Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 2 hours ago, rbrowning2 said: Thanks for the update, they may also be a little lacking on energy for the long range targets, you may have hit them and not broken them. confetti is a little worrying they may not have the integrity required to keep the shot away from the bore of the gun. Would be good to try and collect the wads after firing to examine them. Yeah I think you're right on collecting a wad to see but not practical where I was shooting. ..but I think the problem at range was just the lack of shot as I normally shoot steel and the gamebore super steel had no problem breaking the same clay ...so might be better if they were loaded with 7.5 or just increase the load ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 On 16/07/2020 at 22:20, gamekeeper1960 said: No sooner said then done... I'll let you guys know how it goes Sunday and report back... Thank you .. far quicker than I was expecting !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 Is there a pic of a fired wad? To see the setback? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry2016 Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 (edited) These are a great little cartridge, the benefits of steel Steel shot will not damage the barrels of a shotgun it is a soft iron. Steel shot is lighter therefore you get more shot per gram than lead. It will kill It is environmentally friendly There are now cartridges available for most disciplines with a biodegradable wad (more gauges comeing) Prices vary but some are reasonable The future is bright the future is steel ..... Edited July 25, 2020 by Terry2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamekeeper1960 Posted July 25, 2020 Report Share Posted July 25, 2020 3 hours ago, cookoff013 said: Is there a pic of a fired wad? To see the setback? Hi yeah picture above .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted July 26, 2020 Report Share Posted July 26, 2020 that guy comes across quite well. cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 Interesting video, do they not have to have steel shot and high performance printed on the cartridge case to comply with CIP? So looks like that could be a CIP non compliance. Do they carry the CIP approval on the box? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 I'm more interested in the fact that the bio plastic is still plastic and as such unless in an industrial composter will not break down as quickly as stated and even then contains up to 10% normal thermo plastic which only breaks down to pieces 2mm or less (i.e. micro plastic). Whilst Bio plastic is arguably more green than mineral oil\natural gas plastic, it still is plastic and should not be discarded into the environment where it can be avoided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 they would have to be CIP approved for sale in uk. it would probable be "cip standard performance for normal proof" ie sub 740bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 2 hours ago, cookoff013 said: they would have to be CIP approved for sale in uk. it would probable be "cip standard performance for normal proof" ie sub 740bar. Would does not mean they do their is more to CIP than just pressure, packing wording has to comply and feel certain steel shot should be printed on the cartridges especially for high performance steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted July 27, 2020 Report Share Posted July 27, 2020 Its illegal to sell ammo that exceeds cip or has not been tested. There is no legal criteria for wadding. Just safe. It should have "steel shot" printed on the side of the shell. I believe there is a shotsize limit to standard steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudger687 Posted October 30, 2020 Report Share Posted October 30, 2020 I am very interested in these cartridges - the 28 gram in particular looks to be a viable clay/pigeon load. My main concern is how well the wadding protects the barrel (yes I am aware that soft iron "shouldn't" scratch barrels, but I am a bit cautious nevertheless). Can anyone report back as to the state of their barrels after a few hundred/thousand of these jocker cartridges have been put through them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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