WalkedUp Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 No that’s not true You need to have known that such events could occur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, WalkedUp said: No that’s not true You need to have known that such events could occur. good lucky defending that one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 If you were out with your friends, then Alex punched Brian and Brian died and had no knowledge that this could of occurred it is not joint enterprise. You alert the police and say my friend Alex has killed Brian. Then go home and live happily ever after. Joint enterprise is a great law and helps put thugs away. I have been caught up in a mob attack and it was a disgrace. Hooded and covered face teenagers attacking Italian football fans with hammers etc. It was in vengeance of a Liverpool fan being stabbed by Ultras in the previous fixture but the mob just attacked old men, women and children. We jumped between some and then the mounted police charged. Anyone of them should have been convicted of attempted murder. In that moment I would have happily seen the lot of them strung from the lampposts. At the heart of every joint enterprise conviction is a person who has been killed and some scumbag who has been taken off the street. These are not good people. 1 minute ago, clangerman said: good lucky defending that one "A person who joins in a crime, which any reasonable person would realise involves a risk of harm, and death then results, is guilty at least of manslaughter", the maximum sentence for which is life imprisonment The rule that "a person who intentionally encourages or assists the commission of a crime is as guilty as the person who physically commits it" was not affected It remained open to a jury to decide whether a person intentionally encouraged or assisted a crime, for example through knowledge that weapons were being carried Job done 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, WalkedUp said: At the heart of every joint enterprise conviction is a person who has been killed and some scumbag who has been taken off the street. These are not good people. and a lot of perfectly law abiding have gone to prison or faced long trials for being with them five local chaps i know faced just such a ordeal after. a christmas drink with one turning out to be a idiot through drink which nobody could have foreseen our laws are based on nothing but convicting somebody and it’s not fussed if it’s the right person either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 32 minutes ago, WalkedUp said: No that’s not true You need to have known that such events could occur. Correct Also to add, to be convicted of murder it has to be proved you intended to kill the victim, if the level of proof required raised to beyond any doubt for the death penalty, I don't think anyone would be wrongly convicted. 15 minutes ago, clangerman said: our laws are based on nothing but convicting somebody and it’s not fussed if it’s the right person either That is nonsense. Our law is based on it being better that 10 guilty men (though the number varies) walk free, than one innocent is convicted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 22 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: Our law is based on it being better that 10 guilty men (though the number varies) walk free, than one innocent is convicted. if you believe that i will hope you never end up in a cell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 Just now, clangerman said: if you believe that i will hope you never end up in a cell I think the far bigger problem in this country is the amount of people that should be in a cell but aren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 42 minutes ago, clangerman said: and a lot of perfectly law abiding have gone to prison or faced long trials for being with them five local chaps i know faced just such a ordeal after. a christmas drink with one turning out to be a idiot through drink which nobody could have foreseen our laws are based on nothing but convicting somebody and it’s not fussed if it’s the right person either I do not know the details of the case. Did they act to prevent the attack, or stop the attack when underway? How quickly did they notify the police of the attack? How quickly did they provide evidence against the killer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said: I think the far bigger problem in this country is the amount of people that should be in a cell but aren't. i will certainly agree on that one longer sentences needed and hard labour 2 minutes ago, WalkedUp said: I do not know the details of the case. Did they act to prevent the attack, or stop the attack when underway? How quickly did they notify the police of the attack? How quickly did they provide evidence against the killer. unfortunately being a christmas drink by time they realised he was fighting it was all over and to late chap was fatally injured so all concerned arrested easy done getting your self in a spot with drinking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 @clangerman my interest has been piqued by this one, please can you send a link to your acquaintances’ case? I had a brief look but could not find anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 i couldn’t link a chain together just about manage a comment think the bones of it was court decided the others could or should have been aware but with drink involved seems harsh but as tee totaler i’m not to full of sympathy for either side apart from the victim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 Thanks Clangerman. Do you know what area it was, or names of the guilty, or their victim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 We await the details with interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 18 minutes ago, WalkedUp said: Thanks Clangerman. Do you know what area it was, or names of the guilty, or their victim? not with my memory must be more than ten years now just as good lesson not to get drunk with idiots i think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 Ok no worries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 23 minutes ago, WalkedUp said: Ok no worries. just asked my brother it was chap called thorn in three tuns pub 14yrs ago used pool balls in a sock victim had fractured skull died when they turned his life support of sounds more self inflicted now football taunts mixed with drink fatal error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted December 5, 2020 Report Share Posted December 5, 2020 1 hour ago, clangerman said: just asked my brother it was chap called thorn in three tuns pub 14yrs ago used pool balls in a sock victim had fractured skull died when they turned his life support of sounds more self inflicted now football taunts mixed with drink fatal error https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/2059044.man-killed-by-snooker-ball/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enfieldspares Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 (edited) We claim, often, some of us, and many of them that purport themselves as "leaders of the nation" that in Britain we are so much better than "others". The odious Williamson the latest such creature. A seven year old here, in Britain, has her throat cut in a public park. Yet on all the times I have visited my wife's family in Benin City in Nigeria you see small girls in public places selling telephone re-charge cards and they are not molested nor robbed of those re-charge cards nor of of the money paid to them for them. I remarked to my wife that in the UK you'd fear for the safety of such small girls. My wife replied that if someone as much as tried to harm such small girls people would chase after you, a crowd would form, someone would fetch a tyre and you'd be burned to death. Maybe perhaps a better, swifter and more appropriate form of justice. Edited December 6, 2020 by enfieldspares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkedUp Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 7 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/2059044.man-killed-by-snooker-ball/ 8 hours ago, clangerman said: just asked my brother it was chap called thorn in three tuns pub 14yrs ago used pool balls in a sock victim had fractured skull died when they turned his life support of sounds more self inflicted now football taunts mixed with drink fatal error Thanks both, appreciate the replies. https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/2121093.breaking-newshooligan-jailed-for-abertillery-manslaughter/ This is the sentencing for the snooker ball case but the killer was only sentenced to 4 years for effectively murder with a weapon (so he was out in two?) and mentions nothing of joint enterprise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 On 05/12/2020 at 01:32, Lloyd90 said: If she was sent to prison she would serve her time and then be released. She will now be placed under a criminal section of the Mental Health Act. She will most likely never get out of hospital and if she ever does will be subject to supervision and restrictions placed upon her for the rest of her life. She will never be discharged from the restrictions and can be forcefully given medication at any point from the start to any point in the future. The level of restriction and control over her if far higher than a prison sentence would ever be. She hasn’t just been ‘let go’. Exactly Lloyd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clangerman Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 4 hours ago, WalkedUp said: Thanks both, appreciate the replies. https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/2121093.breaking-newshooligan-jailed-for-abertillery-manslaughter/ This is the sentencing for the snooker ball case but the killer was only sentenced to 4 years for effectively murder with a weapon (so he was out in two?) and mentions nothing of joint enterprise. wrong case pub is in bristol but you were right there was no joint venture I never got the real story at the time as the clowns here kill each other so often rarely pay attention when hearing the details especially from drinkers lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead eye alan Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 On 05/12/2020 at 01:41, clangerman said: hope those screaming for the death penalty have a way to raise the innocent we convict She is not innocent that's for sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armsid Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 We spend millions to Human Rights lawyers INCLUDING CHERIE BLAIR to keep murderers and rapists free of deportation, yet deny Ghurka and fijian soldiers the right to live here. Before long these people will be living near you and under Human Rights no one will be told until they re offend They should be allowed to live near all the lovvies that defend thrm see what they say then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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