Mc Canns - Anyones thoughts a changing

[Gordon R]

If the DNA rumours are false, we are no further forward. If they are true, the McCanns are in real bother.

[Mungler]

My money is on:

 

1. nothing will out

2. case closed in 2 months

3. big whiff left hanging over the McCanns, Joanne Lees stylee.

 

There is no evidence at all against the McCanns at this stage. You cannot say "there is no evidence to say they didn't do it", well there is evidence to say they didn't do it - its called "no evidence to say they did do it". Proving a negative is almost impossible.

 

Innocent until proven guilty.

 

If the world wishes to find them guilty on the basis of the Portuguese police making them official suspects then I ask again what about Robert Murat? The police pulled him in - is that another "there's no smoke without fire" wild bit of speculation. Indeed, if Robert Murat is completely and utterly innocent then his life is still f'ed right up - I hope he wasn't planning a career in teaching or childcare.

 

Now, imagine that the Portuguese police have got it wrong. In fact, got it wrong again. Well it's too late isn't it - suspicion has already been cast and lives ruined.

 

 

 

 

 

 

<Coughs>.

 

Anyone changed their thoughts in the meantime?

 

I see that the Star and Daily Express have changed their minds.

 

Any Star or Express readers care to comment or follow up on earlier remarks made?

[bob300w]

The Star and the Express, in their apology, have said "The McCanns are totally innocent", is not that as extreme as saying that they are guilty? Not libel, admittedly, but just as extreme when there is no proof either way.

Guilty of murder? I find it hard to believe that they are still walking free, if there is any proof at all of their guilt.

Guilty of child neglect? Without a shadow of doubt.

Outcome? Exactly as Mungler says;

1. nothing will out.

2. case closed in 2 months.

3. big whiff left hanging over the McCanns, Joanne Lees stylee.

[LEFTY478]

………The Portuguese Plod still have an awful lot of questions to answer and now, some 125 days after the abduction, I don't think the McCann’s are that answer. Now, I don't like the McCann's and way they have carried on, but I have never been in their position. Although if I had kids, I wouldn't bulk at the thought of coughing up £20 for babysitter, either.

 

 

 

The little girl is the victim here, the parents are not. Kate and Gerry have my empathy but, neither have or deserve my sympathy. It is their actions or inactions or the night in question, that have either caused or allowed the abduction of the little girl - who dispite the thoughts and prayers of half the world, is probably now dead - and for the record, I don't think they are directly involved but, they do have some (criminal) responsibility for which they actions should be called to book.

 

 

 

Have I changed my mind? No, for me, Zapp sums it up perfectly.

 

 

 

If nothing else, they are still guilty of being **** parents and selfish b*stards of the highest calibre for leaving their little kiddies alone while they went on the lash with their mates IMHO.

 

ZB

[Chard]

Haven't seen anything that changes my mind.

 

A couple of rags changing horses and running with the pack doesn't cut much ice, I'm afraid.

 

I haven't seen anything to convince me of Joanne Lees innocence either. Too many unexplained oddities.

 

However, we're not privy to the minor details of either case, so it's hard to form a firm opinion on either :blink: :wacko:

[Cranfield]

I think the "mortgage fund" was getting a bit low and their Lawyers were worried about their fees, that I believe was the motivation for the action against the Newspapers.

 

I still think there is a nasty smell hanging over the whole incident.

[tiercel]

I am with Mung on this.

 

To form an opinion you have to have facts.

 

There are so many smoke screens around this case you could do a batch of kippers with it.

 

Edited to say.

 

The fact that they have been trained to be immune to the trauma of death as doctors. May go some way to explaining their impassiveness.

 

 

TC

[Chard]

I am with Mung on this.

 

To form an opinion you have to have facts.

 

There are so many smoke screens around this case you could do a batch of kippers with it.

 

Edited to say.

 

The fact that they have been trained to be immune to the trauma of death as doctors. May go some way to explaining their impassiveness.

 

 

TC

 

 

Sometimes I feel like there ought to be 3 categories - Innocent, Guilty and Guilt Not Proven :wacko:

 

All these terrorist cases that were thrown out in the 70's and 80's because the Police fudged the evidence - I don't accept that they were "innocent". Innocent is a hell of a word and the accepted situation of "innocent until proved guilty" is admirable in many ways, but far from perfect. There are an awful lot of people wandering around who are as guilty as hell, but, in the eyes of the law, are "innocent" :blink:

 

Of course, it's a can of worms, I can see that. If it were any other way, there would be people (possibly like the McCanns) who would be walking around with a label attached to them, implying guilt, so I suppose it's best left alone. I'm not a fan of this Double Jeopardy stuff though. If new evidence comes to light, why the hell shouldn't a case be reopened?

 

Actually, have they scrapped the Double Jeopardy thing? Somethings ringing a bell somewhere :yes:

Edited March 20, 2008 by Chard

[kdubya]

"Guilt Not Proven" in todays law courts if you cant find em guilty BEYOND reasonable doubt, you dont find em guilty.

and quite rightly so.

 

What would you do then? hang them on the chance they might be guilty? rather than let em go on the chance they might actually be innocent?

 

This whole thread goes back to media speculation,and the fact because people saw it in the papers or telly! people put 2x2 together, and came up with their own UNJUSTIFIED numbers nothing more nothing less,

 

Now the first 4 papers have just been made to stand up in court and admit they sodding well LIED, more will follow, but of course one must remember the old adage NEVER LET THE TRUTH GET IN THE WAY OF A GOOD STORY time to wake up and realise that newspapers need to sell copies, end of!! it is their only remit, truth and factuality are a secondary matter, as for the budding Sherlock's on here stick to pigeon shooting!

cheers KW

[Dunkield]

I never thought I would say this . . .

 

I agree with KW.

 

They are still innocent until proven guilty, and all the mud flinging the Express and Co have dreamt up changes nothing.

It amazes and mildly depresses me that national papers can print what they do and then just print a one page apology (and a fairly hefty fine)

The problem with 'the general public' is if they are drip fed enough lies and fiction they lap it up.

[Cranfield]

Nobody is arguing that they are not innocent until proven guilty, but that will not prevent speculation, all the time that we don't know the truth. :wacko:

[roadkill]

lets face it they have money and are well above middle class ppl thats why they have not been done if it was any one from the working class they would have been charged and maybe have lossed the other children to social services

[bob300w]

Having been pondering this for most of the morning, consider this;

If the Portugese police had any proof of the guilt of either the McCanns or Murat, surely they would have removed the "official suspect" status from the other one(s)?

Another interesting thing is that the McCanns are usually referred to as "the McCanns" by the press and those posting on forums, and Murat as "Robert Murat". A subtle difference in people's attitudes to both parties?

Surely the big question in this case is; Why has it taken so long to decide whether either of the official suspects is guilty, there is either evidence or there is not. Another is; Why were the McCanns and Murat made official suspects in the first place?

Edited March 20, 2008 by bob300w

[Gordon R]

My view has not changed. At best, they are truly awful parents. They seem to relish the limelight too much for my liking. Innocent they may yet turn out to be, but they will always remain the people who put a few drinks before the safety of their children.

[Mungler]

Nah, I am sticking with my Peter Falconio and Joanne Lees theory. Useless police and a vicious press pack deliberately left us thinking Joanne Lees was in on it.

 

The foreign Johnny police are clueless and having the McCanns on their soil is a drain on their resources and spoiling their vital tourist industry. The McCanns having "their collars felt" is the Portugese telling them they have run out of suspects and that's the end of the line for the investigation unless they fancy being the target of a trial i.e. it's time for them to f-off.

 

And what about the bloke up the road who became a formal suspect (and still is I believe) ? And if the McCann's hire car contained vital evidence, why are the McCann's still driving it? Smells like Portugese horse poop to me.

 

Innocent until proven guilty and in the meantime anyone who believes what the Portugese police say or the press say without challenging it, is a mug.

 

 

 

So then:

 

1. the McCans have been formally and officially cleared of any involvement today

2. Robert Murat is a few bob bettter off for having his life completely ruined

 

Lessons learnt:

 

1. don't trust foreign police forces (or perhaps don't trust the police and/or foreigners)

2. don't believe a single word printed in the press

[MM]

1. the kid.

 

the kids if dead. simple. taken by a ghastly pedo, raped, murdered and burried in a ditch.

as the cops are a bit "simple" over there, they will never find her body.

 

2. the parents.

 

those two should be strung up for child neglect that resulted in the death of the daughter. they are more interested in getting hammered, and wife swapping than the kids. as he WAS well repected in his field, the last thing he wants is headlines "Gerry loves it doggy" ..ect ect.

 

3. the suspect.

 

Robert Murat ( i think , spel) is just a guy trying to make a few quid by conning the dumb*** public into thinking he had something to hide, when all along he knew he would be found innocent and take legal action against the press.

 

4. the "tapas" gang

 

why meet up with so many friends, who so far, have kept out of the limelight. DOGGERS and WIFESWAPPERS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i would like to point out that these views are not the views of Pigeon Watch, and that of some members.

Pigeon Watch takes not responsibility for the views expressed by its members...ect, ect, ect..... :unsure:

[Chard]

I haven't seen anything to make me change my mind. I've seen plenty to show me that the police and the press have made a total **** of the whole thing, but that doesn't show me the McCanns in any better light.

 

It's the same as the Guildford 4 and the Birmingham 6 whatever they were, in the 70's/80's. Those cases were flung out due to bad police practices, but that doesn't mean the suspects were innocent, in fact they probably weren't, just that they were convicted on dodgy evidence.

 

The McCanns are at the very least still guilty of being garbage parents, I have no idea what else.

 

Murat is just a ****. It beggars belief that that stupid little man has been made rich by this, what a load of old cock. :unsure:

 

And now this grubby little Portuguese plod is writing a book - he shouldn't be allowed to. This whole sorry affair still stinks as much as it ever did, from the top to the bottom.

Edited July 22, 2008 by Chard

[Axe]

They may not be guilty of Madeline's disappearance but they are certainly guilty of negligence. If they had been dutiful to their daughter, none of this would have happened. As their negligence opened the door on Madelaine's disappearance they are therefore party to it, like it or not.

 

They say you can't judge a book by its cover, but somehow in life, I have always been able to spot untrustworthy people around me. Each and every time I have seen the McCanns in the media, I have always felt similar thoughts about them.

 

Of course, it may well just be their way of dealing with having made a dreadful mistake and paying the biggest price for it. I have always tried to sum up how or what I would do in a similar situation, given that they must feel guilty in part, due to their negligence.

 

Ones things for sure, I doubt we will ever know the truth and without finding poor little Madelaine, there will never be any closure.

 

A sad story indeed.

[Staffs-Shooter]

Murat is just a ****. It beggars belief that that stupid little man has been made rich by this, what a load of old cock. :unsure:

 

And now this grubby little Portuguese plod is writing a book - he shouldn't be allowed to. This whole sorry affair still stinks as much as it ever did, from the top to the bottom.

 

Shocking. Ok so Murat was a suspect but what has it cost him?

 

Ones things for sure, I doubt we will ever know the truth and without finding poor little Madelaine, there will never be any closure.

 

A sad story indeed.

 

Terrible

[Gordon R]

There is talk of them appearing on the Oprah Winfrey show. Why :unsure: They are appalling parents who still find it extremely hard to accept any blame. It's the Press, the Police, the Public, but never them. I will throw up if I read about Kate McCann clutching Cuddle Cat again.

 

At the end of the day, a kid is missing - that is the tragedy.

[Cranfield]

I wonder who will get the substantial fee if they appear on Oprah's show.

Of course, it will be the Maddy Fund.

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The same Fund that paid their mortgage and first class world travel expenses.

[Gordon R]

Cranfield - perish the thought. We will make a cynic out of you yet. :unsure:

[myzeneye]

some interesting points here ..... i could make my own veiws known here but its all been covered.... lousy irresponsible parents, doesnt add up, horrible that she hasnt been found either way... and IF (?)innocent, horrible ordeal for the mccanns... maybe we'll never know what happened to that poor child... i only hope for her sake it was a case of overdose and coverup rather than being subject to anything at the hands of the sicko's....

 

slightly off topic, but in the same vein... what was the outcome of the young girl who was found in the uncles bed :unsure: that one quickly went away.....

[Browning GTS]

Just a thought on her disappearence. Was maddy even over there in the first place could something have happened to her over here and the parents said it happen over there to put off any investigation? a daft idea i know, but was there any outside witnesses before she disappeared to say she was on holiday?

[Mungler]

Eh?

 

I give up :unsure: