First reload OAL help

[The Mighty Prawn]

Hi all

time to metaphorically bite the bullet and start reloading, this is my first effort (no primer or powder) at seating and I’m already confused.

loading 150g Hornady SST with N150 - the bible says min OAL of 2.8 but I’m already below that and not seated to the cannelure yet? I reckon I’m going to be about 2.7 if I seat deeper.

am I being overly cautious in worrying about this? 

[Rewulf]

Im not familiar with that bullet , but there is a school of thought on the necessity of cannelures  and crimping in general.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/cannelure-affect-on-accuracy.769058/

 

https://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/threads/150g-hornady-sst-for-308.131714/

Personally , I would try a group with the 2.8 OAL , and then move up and down a couple of thou at a time to find the sweet spot.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Rewulf

[Windswept]

Is that a 308? What data are you using? A quick google shows a COL for a 150 SST in 308 Win as 2.735" (Don't take my word for it though, check for yourself).

The other thing to check is your cases are not trimmed too much.

Always worth checking when you're new to reloading.

[Mr.C]

Don't worry about crimping, I don't bother these days. Seat to bog standard oal and find a bullet your setup likes. Advice from others with a similar setup can be very helpful with this. 

Then concentrate on a charge your barrel likes, keeping a lookout for pressure signs, before worrying about how far off the lands to seat your bullets. 

That should keep you busy for a while..... 

[Walker570]

Never ever crimped. Checking length of case of course becaue if that is a weeb bit short it will obviously effect OAL.  I have probably loaded hundreds of rounds slightly below OAL with no noticeable difference.  My normal process is to mark up the bullet with a black permanent marker pen and insert into the chambe bolt closed, withdraw and check for land marks, if there are any then push the bullet in a tad further until those marks disappear. The bullet is then clear of the lands. ALWAYS check for pressure signs...flattend primers etc., when producing anew load.   I rarely if ever use maximum loads and over the years have found that a load slightly off max will print the best groups.  Lots of trial and eror and powder burnt when you get into this and a chrono is also useful.

[London Best]

With my .308 I have found it likes most bullets seated .015 inch off the lands for best accuracy. Some barrels may like four times that. Ignore the cannelure. I have never crimped reloads. The OAL stated in reloading books is often the MIN you should not go below. Check that rounds of your finished length will feed through your magazine/rifle. Always check for signs of excess pressure.

[The Mighty Prawn]

Thanks team, I’ll try the finger tight bullet in the rifle and try and work back from that. As it’s my first reload I’ve got myself confused as the powder says 2.8 min yet the bullet is 2.735

i will check for pressure signs when I eventually get round to actually putting powder in one and making it go bang!

[silver fox 1]

Evening I’ve just checked the Hornady 9th  Edition reloading manual  and it says  The 150gr sst  cartridge overall length is  2.735”  hope this helps 

[The Mighty Prawn]

13 hours ago, silver fox 1 said:

Evening I’ve just checked the Hornady 9th  Edition reloading manual  and it says  The 150gr sst  cartridge overall length is  2.735”  hope this helps 

Thanks SF1

[Windswept]

Out of curiosity, why have you chosen Viht-N150 rather than N140? They look fairly similar in performance but I've found more data for N140 with 150 gr bullets.

[The Mighty Prawn]

2 hours ago, Windswept said:

Out of curiosity, why have you chosen Viht-N150 rather than N140? They look fairly similar in performance but I've found more data for N140 with 150 gr bullets.

Rather unscientifically based on what they had in the shop! I’ve got a kilo to work my way through so hopefully I can get it to work

[Windswept]

3 hours ago, The Mighty Prawn said:

Rather unscientifically based on what they had in the shop! I’ve got a kilo to work my way through so hopefully I can get it to work

You're learning! I've only been reloading a few years and you get used to powders being out of stock or worse, being banned. I'm sure N150 will work well.

Another thing you'll come across is if you look up reloading data in 5 different places you'll often get 5 different min/max loads etc.

[Imperfection]

I only crimp loads i use in lever action rifles and then its a heavy crimp to prevent recoil from starting a chain reaction in the tubular magazine.

Standard box magazines rifles i crimp just enough to grip the bullet. Powder wise-i get on well with the Ramshot range.

 

[The Mighty Prawn]

Had some time tonight to tinker so but a bullet loose in the case and then chambered it in my rifle which when ejected had a COL of 2.884 so I’ll work with the 2.8 and play with powder loads before messing with length

obviously anticipating pulling the trigger on that first home load to be a buttock clenching experience and will be wearing glasses as well as hearing protection

unfortunately the wife got track and traced on Christmas flippin day so we’re in the house until at least Saturday!

[Rewulf]

On 27/12/2020 at 17:50, The Mighty Prawn said:

Had some time tonight to tinker so but a bullet loose in the case and then chambered it in my rifle which when ejected had a COL of 2.884 so I’ll work with the 2.8 and play with powder loads before messing with length

obviously anticipating pulling the trigger on that first home load to be a buttock clenching experience and will be wearing glasses as well as hearing protection

unfortunately the wife got track and traced on Christmas flippin day so we’re in the house until at least Saturday!

If youre nervous , just start at the lowest powder load, standard OAL , and see what the accuracy is like.
Dont be a speed demon , get an accurate , powder weight/type / bullet weight/type combination, and work from that base line.
Think about case make , primers and seating depths later, they will have the least effect.

Theres a great deal of satisfaction in producing a good accurate cartridge, I was very lucky to hit it off with my first attempt (I was stunned how much more accurate they were over factory ammo)

[silver fox 1]

3 hours ago, Rewulf said:

If youre nervous , just start at the lowest powder load, standard OAL , and see what the accuracy is like.
Dont be a speed demon , get an accurate , powder weight/type / bullet weight/type combination, and work from that base line.
Think about case make , primers and seating depths later, they will have the least effect.

Theres a great deal of satisfaction in producing a good accurate cartridge, I was very lucky to hit it off with my first attempt (I was stunned how much more accurate they were over factory ammo)

This^  Start off with a standard overall length and leave the bullet seating  length for later,  otherwise you have too many variables going on at once. work your Powder load up  first and see how it shoots,  One thing at a time 👍

Edited December 29, 2020 by silver fox 1

[Vince Green]

The thing about the cannelure generally speaking (if its a reputable manufacturer) is that its a good indication of where the manufacturer thinks you should be seatiing to.

You dont have to agree of course

[London Best]

Manufacturers have to ensure a c/f rifle cartridge suits all rifles. You are only loading to suit your own.

[The Mighty Prawn]

Well I finally got to the range with my first 21 reloads. I’ll paste some pics below for consideration. I was only shooting 50 yards as that’s the length of the range and due to COVID can’t use the benches in the covered area so this is all prone in the snow which is my excuse for why some are a little wild.

the number of grains is in the corner by each group and by my eye the 45 grain group is the best, the 46 are also good but by my eye the primers look like they are starting to flatten? 46 is a PPU case is pretty much full.

didn’t have a chrony so not sure what speeds I’m getting but as a first load I’m happy. Need to shorten them 20 thou to fit the magazine as well - had to single load these straight into the chamber.

 

 

Here’s the primers, do those 46 ones look a bit flat?

[Rewulf]

I would run the tests again at 100 and 200 if you can with the most promising weights.

Nons of them look bad , but 50 is not a good indicator I'm afraid .

I've tested bullet types at 100 ,and they seemed ok , push them out to 2 and 300 and it just starts to fall apart. 

[The Mighty Prawn]

Good advice thanks, will try and find somewhere to get to 100 at least

mighty try asking the farmer whose shoot I beat on if I can borrow a field for a few hours once the game season is over

[Windswept]

The primers in the 46.0 gr don't look bad to me but why such a high charge? Unless I'm not reading the same data, the Viht data lists 43.5 as the max charge for a Hornady GMX and I would say 46 would be the max load looking at the Hornady data.

[The Mighty Prawn]

21 minutes ago, Windswept said:

The primers in the 46.0 gr don't look bad to me but why such a high charge? Unless I'm not reading the same data, the Viht data lists 43.5 as the max charge for a Hornady GMX and I would say 46 would be the max load looking at the Hornady data.

I’m working with load data from the current Lee Modern Reloading manual - for a 150 grain projectile using N150 is has a min load of 42 and a bit, max load 48 and a bit (don’t have book to hand for exact figures) so I started at 43 and ran out of space at 46 (there was a tiny bit of rattle so not a compressed load but I certainly didn’t want to put more in

[Walker570]

Good advice is to start at least 10% down on printed max in reloading books and then build up till you find what YOUR rifle likes to eat.   I don't do much testing today because I have loads which I know work but always check a couple from a new batch of powder or bullets.

Load 3 rounds from 10% down and then 3 a bit heavier then 3 from a bit heavier using the charts.  I load five sets of 3.  I then put five targets out at 100yrds and fire one from each batch at it's target, eventually running through all the loads. I shoot on the lowest scope setting and do not look at the groups until all 15 rounds are fired. I then check the targets and normally there will be one load which is better than the rest. If that is good then that is the one to go in the book. If the best is still a bit loose then another set  very slightly either side of that load should tighten it up.  All of this must be done from a firm rest. I use a 'sledge' and therefore very little input from me other than trigger release.  

By not shooting a string from each load will even out any discrepancies in trigger human intrusion to some extent and will even out barrel warming effect. Not looking/checking fall of shot till complete also eleviates any human adjustment.

[The Mighty Prawn]

Good advice, thanks mate