Head Teacher's Reply to Know it All Parents.

[henry d]

4 hours ago, AVB said:

 

But the stats show they are not more vulnerable despite what you say about a shop worker having more protection.

So who should fall down the queue to make up for a healthy 25 year old teacher being pushed up the queue? 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55795608

So where do we stop? 

For 30 years I have had the trickle down of various ailments from school children via my wife, we've had scabies, head lice, colds, diarrhea etc We've been vaccinated against all the three main hepatitis viruses too, why should this be any different?

[AVB]

45 minutes ago, henry d said:

So where do we stop? 

For 30 years I have had the trickle down of various ailments from school children via my wife, we've had scabies, head lice, colds, diarrhea etc We've been vaccinated against all the three main hepatitis viruses too, why should this be any different?

No different. But are teachers prioritised above others for the things you mention? So who do you think should be sacrificed in order to vaccinate teachers above others? Just tell me where you would draw the line?

1) residents in a care home for older adults and their carers

2) all those 80 years of age and over and frontline health and social care workers

3) all those 75 years of age and over

4) all those 70 years of age and over and clinically extremely vulnerable individuals[footnote 1]

5) all those 65 years of age and over

6) all individuals aged 16 years to 64 years with underlying health conditions which put them at higher risk of serious disease and mortality

7) all those 60 years of age and over

8. all those 55 years of age and over

9) all those 50 years of age and over

Edited January 31, 2021 by AVB

[markm]

It’s not like they are going to stop everyone else. They done roughly 500,000 yesterday. Therefore teachers could be all done in one / two days. Or have all teachers over 40 (as a suggestion) done, that will only be 1/2 to 1/3 of the school workforce then the rest a week or two later - even roll it out over 3 weekends. The effect on the roll out would be minimal. 
 

You complain about your children’s schools, on most school / covid threads.  Yet here is a suggestion to get them open quicker and you’re not happy. 

[AVB]

51 minutes ago, markm said:

It’s not like they are going to stop everyone else. They done roughly 500,000 yesterday. Therefore teachers could be all done in one / two days. Or have all teachers over 40 (as a suggestion) done, that will only be 1/2 to 1/3 of the school workforce then the rest a week or two later - even roll it out over 3 weekends. The effect on the roll out would be minimal. 
 

You complain about your children’s schools, on most school / covid threads.  Yet here is a suggestion to get them open quicker and you’re not happy. 

Yes I want schools open. Just tell me who should be sacrificed to vaccinate a  low risk (under 50 no medical condition) teacher? The current priorities are listed above. The government have made it clear, and it is blindingly obvious, that for every person you push up the queue somebody has to be pushed down. 

[clangerman]

and WHY are the schools closed except for essential workers? they are shut because snot slobber covered kids touch each other and everything else SPREADING infection giving teachers the jab is about protecting the parents NOT teachers if you want to cry about que jumping ask the council why my daughter gets a jab tomorrow thirty not mixing with the public or at risk work that one out 

[AVB]

1 minute ago, clangerman said:

and WHY are the schools closed except for essential workers? they are shut because snot slobber covered kids touch each other and everything else SPREADING infection giving teachers the jab is about protecting the parents NOT teachers if you want to cry about que jumping ask the council why my daughter gets a jab tomorrow thirty not mixing with the public or at risk work that one out 

You do realise that having the jab doesn’t necessarily stop the spread of infection so how will teachers having the jab protect Parents?

[clangerman]

4 minutes ago, AVB said:

You do realise that having the jab doesn’t necessarily stop the spread of infection so how will teachers having the jab protect Parents?

more concerned that this country is so CORRUPT she is being jabbed nobody is that essential even family 

[markm]

1 hour ago, AVB said:

Yes I want schools open. Just tell me who should be sacrificed to vaccinate a  low risk (under 50 no medical condition) teacher? The current priorities are listed above. The government have made it clear, and it is blindingly obvious, that for every person you push up the queue somebody has to be pushed down. 

No-one is being sacrificed. It may cause a day or two delay. The advantages are schools are open, people can get rid of their kids and back to work, the teaching unions can’t complain (as this is what they’ve asked for).

Schools can stay open with regular testing, pupils who test positive are sent straight home but teachers will still be there (as long as they are being careful).   

It’s just a small step (largish) step back to normality. 

Edited February 1, 2021 by markm

[Sciurus]

57 minutes ago, clangerman said:

more concerned that this country is so CORRUPT she is being jabbed nobody is that essential even family 

I know I might regret asking this question but are you saying someone has been corrupted to inoculate your daughter ahead of more urgent cases? If so, who has been corrupted and for what reason? 

Surely you are not implying your daughter has bribed a NHS worker to put her name at the top of the list?

As a matter of interest what does your daughter do?

I am seriously confused as to why you think we would know the answer!

[clangerman]

i’m saying the que system is already being abused as she’s my own daughter it will help keep me safer but that does not make it right she has been claimed by her employer as so essential she needs a jab this quick 

[Demonic69]

Having spent a few years working in IT in schools, I find it amusingly ironic that a headteacher is complaining about non-professionals interfering with his staff. Teachers are some of the most know-it-all people I've ever met and are, usually, more than happy to "advise" on where you're going wrong in every aspect of your life

Maybe if the education sector actually listened to people with real-life experience we might be scoring higher on the international rankings. Also, judging by the complete inability of most schools to offer any more than perfunctory education for kids at home, especially during the first lock-down, I'd guess that these Professional Educators could have done with a bit more guidance on how to cope with changes in the workplace.

I offered to help local schools with their infrastructure to get them setup on Zoom and other platforms early on. I was met with deafening silence as most of the staff were enjoying 100% pay and lovely walks around the peak district.

[markm]

38 minutes ago, Demonic69 said:

Having spent a few years working in IT in schools, I find it amusingly ironic that a headteacher is complaining about non-professionals interfering with his staff. Teachers are some of the most know-it-all people I've ever met and are, usually, more than happy to "advise" on where you're going wrong in every aspect of your life

Maybe if the education sector actually listened to people with real-life experience we might be scoring higher on the international rankings. Also, judging by the complete inability of most schools to offer any more than perfunctory education for kids at home, especially during the first lock-down, I'd guess that these Professional Educators could have done with a bit more guidance on how to cope with changes in the workplace.

I offered to help local schools with their infrastructure to get them setup on Zoom and other platforms early on. I was met with deafening silence as most of the staff were enjoying 100% pay and lovely walks around the peak district.

It’s little wonder you don’t work there anymore. “I attended the university of life...... I’ll have you know.”

 

Not sure what you mean by “most schools?” How do you know?
 

The whole blended learning has moved on significantly to what it was even months ago. 

 

If you did know anything about schools, it’s not normal for outsiders to have access to ICT systems, for obvious reasons and I don’t know of any schools using ‘zoom’ for their lessons. I think you’ll find google classroom & ms teams are being used by all schools.  

 

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by markm

[12gauge82]

4 hours ago, markm said:

It’s not like they are going to stop everyone else. They done roughly 500,000 yesterday. Therefore teachers could be all done in one / two days. Or have all teachers over 40 (as a suggestion) done, that will only be 1/2 to 1/3 of the school workforce then the rest a week or two later - even roll it out over 3 weekends. The effect on the roll out would be minimal. 
 

You complain about your children’s schools, on most school / covid threads.  Yet here is a suggestion to get them open quicker and you’re not happy. 

Actually it will, why teachers? Why not supermarket workers, or taxi drivers, or emergency services ect. Should we vaccinate teachers simply because their union is shouting loudest? 

If half a million teachers get it, half a million others won't. 

6 minutes ago, markm said:

It’s little wonder you don’t work there anymore. “I attended the university of life...... I’ll have you know.”

 

 

 

 

Nothing wrong with the university of life. Sometimes formal education is best and sometimes it's near useless, it just depends on what peoples goals are and what they end up doing. 

 

[AVB]

1 hour ago, markm said:

No-one is being sacrificed. It may cause a day or two delay. The advantages are schools are open, people can get rid of their kids and back to work, the teaching unions can’t complain (as this is what they’ve asked for).

Schools can stay open with regular testing, pupils who test positive are sent straight home but teachers will still be there (as long as they are being careful).   

It’s just a small step (largish) step back to normality. 

It’s funny that the government don’t agree that “it is only a couple of days”. And cue then every other union clambering to get their workers prioritised.

Why would children who test positive be sent home but a teacher who tests positive wouldn’t? Surely if the teacher tests positive they would have to also be sent home as they still present a risk of spreading the virus.  So being inoculated doesn’t guarantee that schools will be fully staffed. So what’s the point? 

Does it protect teachers?  - Only those low risk ones who wouldn’t be vaccinated as part of the 9 current priorities

Does it guarantee schools remaining open? - No as teachers who test positive would still need to isolate.  

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by AVB

[Demonic69]

3 minutes ago, markm said:

It’s little wonder you don’t work there anymore. “I attended the university of life...... I’ll have you know.”

 

 

Nothing to do with University of Life of University of Sheffield. Every industry ends up as an echo chamber, hearing only what we want to hear. In the private sector that leads to stagnation and a lack of competitiveness, so firms either have to listen to outside sources or start losing customers. In the public sector the funds keep rolling in regardless or performance, to a degree, and they tend to be driven by those who've been at it a longer time, without any fresh input or differing perspectives. A lot of the NQTs tried and failed to make make improvements at the schools I worked at, usually giving up after a few years and falling into the same complacency as their peers. It's a shame, one IT teacher was well ahead of his time, but the old-guard knocked that enthusiasm out of him and missed out on his intuitiveness. If he's still there he'll be a major asset to them during technologically trying times

[Demonic69]

21 minutes ago, markm said:

Not sure what you mean by “most schools?” How do you know?

Fair point, "Most schools that I've interacted with or have spoken to colleagues, friends or family about". Better?

You obviously know better though. How many schools have you dealt with directly over the last year?

26 minutes ago, markm said:

If you did know anything about schools, it’s not normal for outsiders to have access to ICT systems, for obvious reasons and I don’t know of any schools using ‘zoom’ for their lessons. I think you’ll find google classroom & ms teams are being used by all schools. 

You must be correct. Schools never use CRB/DBS checked contractors. I've also not worked for manages services in schools. Are you a teacher?

Zoom was the only real option in the early days of lock-down for face-to-face teaching, especially before "Zoombombing" became a big thing. Google Classroom is collaborative, not video conferencing. Both Teams (O365A1) and Google Meet (the conferencing app) were paid for services that many schools (that I know of) didn't have subscriptions to or the budget to sing up for. Google making Meet free clearly changed things, but both my kids' schools still use Zoom for face to face though.

38 minutes ago, markm said:

I think you’ll find google classroom & ms teams are being used by all schools.  

Not sure what you mean by "all schools". How do you know?

[markm]

AVB - Sorry I meant teachers who have had the vaccine (hopefully) do not test positive, so don’t have to self isolate. However - just because they are ‘low risk’ it doesn’t mean they can’t catch COVID, if they do, they have to self isolate, thus potentially closing schools.

 

12gauge82 - I’ve already told you at least 2 times. Not wasting any more on you. 
 

Demonic69 - GC and Teams are free to schools, with all the resources you’d need to run remotely. However, they have add-one (eg - google has enterprise for education £42 per member of staff, per year.  I didn’t have to google that......). Not quite sure why schools would ‘need your services’ if they don’t know you from Adam...... they will all have ICT support from the LEA, MAT or bought in services. 
 

How many are using zoom and not GC and Teams?  Not sure really, but in the north of the UK and south of Scotland, as well as multiple forums I am on for education, I don’t know of any who are. However IF they are, their data protection impact assessment should be flashing CODE RED. It’s also not designed to be an educational platform. To give one example - in a google classroom meet the teacher can lock it down so no chat, no video, most importantly - no outsiders can join in.  Google Meet, only restriction is 100 participants and is a VC app woven into a educational platform. Why create problems for students?  Zoom videos (little control if any) and then give work in google  - MS). KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid should be the motto. 

But hey, what do I know.......
 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by markm

[AVB]

7 minutes ago, markm said:

AVB - sorry I meant teachers who have had the vaccine (hopefully) do not test positive, so don’t have to self isolate. However - just because they are ‘low risk’ it doesn’t mean they can’t catch COVID, if they do, they have to self isolate, thus potentially closing schools.
 

Is there any evidence to support that view though? My understanding, and happy to be corrected, is that even if you have had the vaccination you could still catch COVID, still test positive and still transmit the virus. Which, if true, will cause more of a problem as people will let their guard down once vaccinated and therefore more likely to become infected. 

[markm]

1 minute ago, AVB said:

Is there any evidence to support that view though? My understanding, and happy to be corrected, is that even if you have had the vaccination you could still catch COVID, still test positive and still transmit the virus. Which, if true, will cause more of a problem as people will let their guard down once vaccinated and therefore more likely to become infected. 

Letting the guard down will become a problem and a frustration in society, not just schools.  I may be wrong on catching, transmitting etc etc. I’m not even sure if that’s been investigated scientifically yet. 

[Demonic69]

17 minutes ago, markm said:

Demonic69 - GC and Teams are free to schools, with all the resources you’d need to run remotely. However, they have add-one (eg - google has enterprise for education £42 per member of staff, per year.  I didn’t have to google that......). Not quite sure why schools would ‘need your services’ if they don’t know you from Adam...... they will all have ICT support from the LEA, MAT or bought in services. 

I never said they needed my services. I offered to help, as a solutions architect for a large multinational outsourcing provider, personally specialising in multi-user and remote work technologies (for free I might add), and was ignored . As very few schools, that I know of through the many discussions myself and colleagues have had on the matter, managed any form of cohesive education during the first lock-down I'd be inclined to assume the LEA, MAT or other services didn't manage to provide a great deal of useful assistance. I was talking to talking Primary though, secondary get far larger budgets and much more assistance.

25 minutes ago, markm said:

How many are using zoom and not GC and Teams?  Not sure really, but in the North of the UK and south of Scotland, as well as multiple forums I am on for education, I don’t know of any who are. However IF they are, their data protection impact assessment should be flashing CODE RED. It’s also not designed to be an educational platform. To give one example - in a google Classroom meet the teacher can lock it down so no chat, no video, most importantly - no outsiders can join in.  Google Meet, only restriction is 100 participants and is a VC app woven into a educational platform. Why create problems for students?  Zoom videos (little control if any) and then give work in google  - MS). KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid should be the motto. 

But hey, what do I know.......

Schools are still using Zoom to teach, Facebook is pretty much littered with parents talking about Zoom meetings with their kids, my kids' schools use it, my family's schools use it, my colleagues' schools use it. They also use Google Classroom for assigning work, but not for live teaching. Some even still use Moodle and other learning platforms to great effect. There are also a plethora of other platforms we seem to have accounts and passwords for.

Teams requires much more investment and/or infrastructure than many Primary schools have. Zoom fixed their zoombombing issues pretty early on and is now seen as a fairly robust video conferencing platform, with even some of our MOD clients looking at ways to allow secure access for collaborative working with partners. I'm not a fan TBH, but when lock-down 1.0 hit it seemed to be the only platform capable of connecting students with teachers in a straight forward fashion.

Your idea of KISS is great when the schools already have the infrastructure or resources in place. When you ask a Primary to setup Google Classroom, Meet, O365/Teams and other platforms we end up with the situation we had. Zero worthwhile education being provided to kids.

[12gauge82]

59 minutes ago, markm said:

 

 

12gauge82 - I’ve already told you at least 2 times. Not wasting any more on you. 
 

 

You may have posted but you haven't given a logical answer. So I'll assume you simply can't answer my question 👍

[henry d]

19 hours ago, AVB said:

So who do you think should be sacrificed in order to vaccinate teachers above others?

No one is being sacrificed for goodness sake! There are 450K teachers in England and the latest figures for vaccinations state that over 2.2 million people in England had been vaccinated that week. So unless my maths or the data is incorrect; if you were to vaccinate all the teachers we push the queue back just a couple of days.

[12gauge82]

21 minutes ago, henry d said:

No one is being sacrificed for goodness sake! There are 450K teachers in England and the latest figures for vaccinations state that over 2.2 million people in England had been vaccinated that week. So unless my maths or the data is incorrect; if you were to vaccinate all the teachers we push the queue back just a couple of days.

So which of the vulnerable groups would you push down the que to vaccinate teachers? Also I think you'd find it took significantly longer than a couple of days. 

[wascal]

6 hours ago, Demonic69 said:

Having spent a few years working in IT in schools, I find it amusingly ironic that a headteacher is complaining about non-professionals interfering with his staff. Teachers are some of the most know-it-all people I've ever met and are, usually, more than happy to "advise" on where you're going wrong in every aspect of your life

 

My collegues and I visit lots of schools  and a large proportion of teachers (especially the younger ones)  seem to forget they are speaking to adults and not 6 year olds .

[12gauge82]

8 minutes ago, wascal said:

My collegues and I visit lots of schools  and a large proportion of teachers (especially the younger ones)  seem to forget they are speaking to adults and not 6 year olds .

If this thread is anything to go by I can believe it.