Boris ...is he a dead man walking.

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, clangerman said:

what happened to having self respect how it is accept it can’t change things defeatist rubbish you should be calling to torch the place and clip the lot of them 

Really? Torch the place and clip the lot of them? Yeah that should go well, at least we'll see you on the news!

11 hours ago, mel b3 said:

To find out later that Boris and his mates were having a fine old time , eating cake , drinking booze , and knobbing their office staff , was a bit of a kick in the teeth to say the least . 

Having said all that , I still think that Boris is the least bad option as pm at the moment. 

One thing in his favour . At least he had the good manners to bow his head , and pretend to feel ashamed , when it emerged that downing Street had been partying , on the night before Prince Philips funeral , and the Queen had to sit alone due to government rules.

I know that you'll say that they're politicians,  and that we should expect no better from them , but that's their shame , not mine. 👍

I just imagine what might have happened if we hadn't been put in lock down and then the thing had killed people in the numbers the so called experts predicted. 

Those of us that worked right through wouldn't have wanted to bring covid home in the early stages when people were filling up the hospitals, struggling to breathe on incubators.

I only know a few people that were really ill from covid, but immediate family know people who died. Thankfully most of my family and friends who caught covid were already jabbed and were just ill for a few days. 

Politicians never fail to disappoint us, I'm still amazed that they get caught out so easily in this day and age of camera phones and drones, never mind hacking and the back stabbing that goes on.

[Scully]

16 hours ago, 12gauge82 said:

The sad bit for me is that people seem to find it acceptable that politicians behave in such a poor manner, I believe our country and its people deserve better. 

 

So do I but other than voting for a particular person or party what can we do? What do you think we should do? 

[enfieldspares]

15 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

I remember the very first press conference Johnson gave with his two Angels of death, he said everyone will know someone who will die of Covid.  He personally was at it from day one and I don't know anyone who has died of Covid.  We then had it shoved down our throats multiple times a week with graphs that were so inaccurate to be absolutely laughable.  Remember Ferguson before Xmas last year 6000 deaths a day in weeks and he was 97% inaccurate last time I checked the average.  The number of suicides and mental health issues they have caused with their scaremongering to me means they should be in jail.  Excusing them because they are Politicians simply doesn't cut it, for me at least.  Maybe we have crossed wires but the link I posted wasn't propoganda it was reality, they distorted reality on a huge scale. Why?  The last FOI report I saw said that deaths directly from Covid were 17,500 the rest were with.  Why did Johnson shut the country down and run up a two Trillion debt for that.  He must answer that question.

Johnson is like the fat boy in the Dickens' "Pickwick Papers".

Quote

'Then what can you want to do now?' said the old lady, gaining courage.

'I wants to make your flesh creep,' replied the boy.

 

[Scully]

15 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

I remember the very first press conference Johnson gave with his two Angels of death, he said everyone will know someone who will die of Covid.  He personally was at it from day one and I don't know anyone who has died of Covid.  We then had it shoved down our throats multiple times a week with graphs that were so inaccurate to be absolutely laughable.  Remember Ferguson before Xmas last year 6000 deaths a day in weeks and he was 97% inaccurate last time I checked the average.  The number of suicides and mental health issues they have caused with their scaremongering to me means they should be in jail.  Excusing them because they are Politicians simply doesn't cut it, for me at least.  Maybe we have crossed wires but the link I posted wasn't propoganda it was reality, they distorted reality on a huge scale. Why?  The last FOI report I saw said that deaths directly from Covid were 17,500 the rest were with.  Why did Johnson shut the country down and run up a two Trillion debt for that.  He must answer that question.

It was done to save the NHS! It’s that simple. 

If the NHS ceased to function due to massive intakes of covid patients in intensive care,  then all other more ‘urgent’ cases such as heart attacks, accident casualties and all other emergency cases would simply may not have been able to be treated. 
What would you have done? It’s fine sitting back with the benefit of hindsight criticising, just as opposing parties and the media have and continue to do, but did any other nations do it differently? Wasn’t most of the world in lockdown at one point? 
Politicians have to rely on the expertise of those in the know; they ask for the input of those qualified to give it ( you do know politicians aren’t qualified to do so don’t you? ) and then they and their advisors get together and devise a policy based around the info’ the experts have given, taking into account all relevant issues, and then arrive at a compromise which they think will serve the country ( and their careers of course….because THEY’RE POLITICIANS ! 🙂) best, and that’s it.  
They did what they thought was best for the country at the time, the fact they appear to have flaunted or ignored their own legislation is irrelevant to this issue.
Don’t forget this government was responsible for one of the best vaccine rollout programmes in the world, but that’s not really what you want to hear is it?  
 

2 hours ago, clangerman said:

what happened to having self respect how it is accept it can’t change things defeatist rubbish you should be calling to torch the place and clip the lot of them 

Eh? 

12 hours ago, mel b3 said:

I've got to be honest , I believed pretty much everything that the medical profession said . I felt that I had no choice other than to believe them , because they're the experts  . I also did my level best to stick to their advice , and followed all guidelines and rules . Several things happened that really focused my mind . The first thing was when they got us all together at work , and told us that according to information direct from the government,  80%  of us would get covid , but they didn't know how many of us would die . The second thing , was as I was driving home on a pretty empty road , I saw the local undertaker taking delivery of a large portable refrigerator unit , to accommodate all the bodies.  Those things really focused my mind on covid . 

I was climbing the walls with the boredom and frustration of just sitting on the sofa after work every day , but I did it because I thought that I was doing the the right thing , and playing my part . The guys that I work with , would stand outside in the rain( next to a refuse tip) to eat their lunch , as they couldn't social distance inside , and they didn't even have chairs to sit on .  To find out later that Boris and his mates were having a fine old time , eating cake , drinking booze , and knobbing their office staff , was a bit of a kick in the teeth to say the least . 

Having said all that , I still think that Boris is the least bad option as pm at the moment. 

One thing in his favour . At least he had the good manners to bow his head , and pretend to feel ashamed , when it emerged that downing Street had been partying , on the night before Prince Philips funeral , and the Queen had to sit alone due to government rules.

I know that you'll say that they're politicians,  and that we should expect no better from them , but that's their shame , not mine. 👍

You and many others Mel. I worked throughout. 
Politicians weren’t the only ones flouting the rules, but you can’t shame a politician. 

[Weihrauch17]

56 minutes ago, Scully said:

It was done to save the NHS! It’s that simple. 

If the NHS ceased to function due to massive intakes of covid patients in intensive care,  then all other more ‘urgent’ cases such as heart attacks, accident casualties and all other emergency cases would simply may not have been able to be treated. 
What would you have done? It’s fine sitting back with the benefit of hindsight criticising, just as opposing parties and the media have and continue to do, but did any other nations do it differently? Wasn’t most of the world in lockdown at one point? 
Politicians have to rely on the expertise of those in the know; they ask for the input of those qualified to give it ( you do know politicians aren’t qualified to do so don’t you? ) and then they and their advisors get together and devise a policy based around the info’ the experts have given, taking into account all relevant issues, and then arrive at a compromise which they think will serve the country ( and their careers of course….because THEY’RE POLITICIANS ! 🙂) best, and that’s it.  
They did what they thought was best for the country at the time, the fact they appear to have flaunted or ignored their own legislation is irrelevant to this issue.
Don’t forget this government was responsible for one of the best vaccine rollout programmes in the world, but that’s not really what you want to hear is it?  
 

Eh? 

You and many others Mel. I worked throughout. 
Politicians weren’t the only ones flouting the rules, but you can’t shame a politician. 

The Government didn't deliver the Vaccine Roll out, the NHS and Pharmacies did.  If the Government had been involved it would have been a total shambles.  The Government spread bet Billions of Taxpayers money on every potentially viable Vaccine.  Your praise for them is akin to them betting on every horse in a race and then congratulating them for picking the winner.  The real truth is they have put the country into huge debt and caused immense mental suffering on the back of modelling that was so wrong it could be classed as criminally negligent.  Before Xmas 2021 Ferguson claimed in weeks there could be 6000 a day dead, the 7 day rolling average in the 2nd week after Xmas was 180 or so, he was 97% wrong.  He wasn't modelling a brand new virus, we were nearly two years in.  Boris was stopped putting us into lockdown again over Xmas by his backbenchers and cabinet.  I also believe the world was panicked into lockdowns because leaders knew it had come out of a lab and would be different to other virus's because it had been modified.  You remember at the start when he was going for Herd Immunity we were told a 60% infection rate would stop the pandemic.  We have antibodies in over 90% and it is still spreading.  I am a life long Tory voter but the current Government is the most inept and dangerous I can remember and that is quite some achievement.  Their insane policies will impoverish millions.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Weihrauch17

[Scully]

Ok. Boris’ government were in office when the vaccine roll out occurred, just as other respective heads of other respective nations governments were in office when they didn’t. 🙂

The governments act on the advice of experts.
So what would you have done, with the benefit of hindsight of course? 

[Mice!]

2 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

The Government didn't deliver the Vaccine Roll out, the NHS and Pharmacies did.  If the Government had been involved it would have been a total shambles.  The Government spread bet Billions of Taxpayers money on every potentially viable Vaccine.

The government bought the vaccine,  and bought some of it from under the noses of European leaders, which meant that the roll out could happen here, the NHS didn't sort that. 

Everything I've read and seen said the roll out was done efficiently and that might be why there aren't hundreds of thousands dead and filling hospitals?

I'm not surprised people are unhappy at MPs flouting the rules, but parties are far from the current issues that should be being discussed. 

 

[Weihrauch17]

1 hour ago, Scully said:

Ok. Boris’ government were in office when the vaccine roll out occurred, just as other respective heads of other respective nations governments were in office when they didn’t. 🙂

The governments act on the advice of experts.
So what would you have done, with the benefit of hindsight of course? 

What Kate Bingham did with spread betting was hugely costly but the right desision. The point I was making was that it wasn't some master stroke from the Government, it was the obvious call to make and it was made by Kate Bingham.

57 minutes ago, Mice! said:

The government bought the vaccine,  and bought some of it from under the noses of European leaders, which meant that the roll out could happen here, the NHS didn't sort that. 

Everything I've read and seen said the roll out was done efficiently and that might be why there aren't hundreds of thousands dead and filling hospitals?

I'm not surprised people are unhappy at MPs flouting the rules, but parties are far from the current issues that should be being discussed. 

 

Kate Bingham was in charge of Vaccine procurement and yes the roll out by the NHS and Pharmacies has been a success but the credit should be with them.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Weihrauch17

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Well it is reported that the Fixed Penalty Fine letters go out from Scotland Yard in this coming week.

I strongly suspect many will be photocopied and proudly displayed on lavatory walls.

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Weihrauch17 said:

What Kate Bingham did with spread betting was hugely costly but the right desision. The point I was making was that it wasn't some master stroke from the Government, it was the obvious call to make and it was made by Kate Bingham.

Kate Bingham was in charge of Vaccine procurement and yes the roll out by the NHS and Pharmacies has been a success but the credit should be with them.

Didn’t Boris approach Kate Bingham and ask her to head the ‘task force’ charged with procurement of an effective vaccine? 

[Weihrauch17]

I don't know maybe you could ask her but even if he did she did the work not him.  She would also have been recommended to him probably by Whitty or Vallance or both as they set the group up along with others so would have had a strong influence on who got the job.  The Vaccine Task Group wasn't set up by Johnson.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/kate-bingham-appointed-chair-of-uk-vaccine-taskforce

 

Edited January 30, 2022 by Weihrauch17

[Scully]

12 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said:

I don't know maybe you could ask her but even if he did she did the work not him.  She would also have been recommended to him probably by Whitty or Vallance or both as they set the group up along with others so would have had a strong influence on who got the job.  The Vaccine Task Group wasn't set up by Johnson.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/kate-bingham-appointed-chair-of-uk-vaccine-taskforce

 

Wasn’t she a ‘friend’ of Boris, hence her attracting much criticism initially of cronyism? 

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, Weihrauch17 said:

Kate Bingham was in charge of Vaccine procurement

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-24-another-war-coming-kate-bingham-dbe-delivers-romanes-lecture

I've just read this, she is very critical of the government and rightly so, but I have no problem with the government making the decision to give such an important job to an experienced person,  that's what a good manager or PM should do.

[Weihrauch17]

4 minutes ago, Scully said:

Wasn’t she a ‘friend’ of Boris, hence her attracting much criticism initially of cronyism? 

Rings a bell, but I think it was her husband he is friends with. 

Jesse Norman

Member of Parliament of the United Kingdom

 

 

 

Alexander Jesse Norman is a British Conservative Party politician who served as Financial Secretary to the Treasury from 2019 to 2021 and as the Member of Parliament for Hereford and South Herefordshire since 2010. Wikipedia

Born: 23 June 1962 (age 59 years), London

Spouse: Kate Bingham (m. 1992)

Office: Member of Parliament of the United Kingdom since 2010

Edited January 30, 2022 by Weihrauch17

[Weihrauch17]

5 minutes ago, Mice! said:

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-24-another-war-coming-kate-bingham-dbe-delivers-romanes-lecture

I've just read this, she is very critical of the government and rightly so, but I have no problem with the government making the decision to give such an important job to an experienced person,  that's what a good manager or PM should do.

Very very scathing so she did a great job despite the Government is how it reads to me.  I would think it very likely that she was put forward for the job by one or more of our chief scientists. 

[Mice!]

4 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said:

Very very scathing so she did a great job despite the Government is how it reads to me.  I would think it very likely that she was put forward for the job by one or more of our chief scientists. 

No she did a great job because the gov gave her the job to do, and no doubt she'll do well from it.

[Weihrauch17]

It reads to me like the Government and Civil Servants were a hindrance all the way though her short tenure in the role.  Like I said her appointment would have been made through recomendations from Whitty or Vallance or both irrespective of who formally put her in the job, I can hardly see Johnson sitting down interviewing!

5 minutes ago, Mice! said:

No she did a great job because the gov gave her the job to do, and no doubt she'll do well from it.

The unit she headed up was developed and created by Scientists in the main.

[Mice!]

16 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said:

It reads to me like the Government and Civil Servants were a hindrance all the way though her short tenure in the role.  Like I said her appointment would have been made through recomendations from Whitty or Vallance or both irrespective of who formally put her in the job, I can hardly see Johnson sitting down interviewing!

The unit she headed up was developed and created by Scientists in the main.

You can't say it can you, the gov did the right thing putting someone experienced in the role, they could have put lord such and such in charge, or some pointless committee which would have slowed things down or totally messed up.

That's why I'm saying Boris did a good job, I didn't think for a minute he handled it personally. 

[Weihrauch17]

No you are correct I won't give Johnson credit for the work of Kate Bingham or the fact that the unit was set up because he didn't set it up scientists did and they will have put forward KB for the job.  Every single thing he touches is a disaster and every major policy he has is economy wrecking.  The country got through the Pandemic despite him not because of him.  Not arguing the toss over his total ineptitude anymore, you carry on blowing smoke up his backside if you like.  The wheels came off big style when he sacked Cummings and let his woke loony Green teenage bride dictate UK policy.

[Scully]

3 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

Rings a bell, but I think it was her husband he is friends with. 

 

Doesn’t that amount to the same thing, as in ‘jobs for the boys’? 
It happens on a daily basis all over the world in one form or another. 
‘I say old boy, doesn’t you missus do such and such a thing as an investment thingymajig?’ 
We’re never going to agree because you don’t like him and I don’t mind him ( as politicians go ) but he was instrumental in getting the vaccine ball rolling, or knew someone who knew someone who could get it rolling. 
Like I’ve already asked, what would you have done? In a global wide pandemic he did ok in my opinion. Let’s face it, Labour could have been in power! 😳

Edited January 30, 2022 by Scully

[Weihrauch17]

I replied KB did the right thing in spread betting.  I didn't agree with lockdown at all but the vulnerable should have been supported to shield properly.  The amount of 'Covid' money this Government has wasted on absolutely nothing is absolutely staggering.  We won't agree, I detest what his policies are doing to peoples prosperity and the country and we haven't seen anything yet.  He wanted to lockdown at Xmas but was stopped by Cabinet and his backbenchers.  In my mind he has been a total disaster for the country which will become more apparent over the next few months.  He is also arrogant and his actions in number 10 have been totally disrespectful to the country his Government imposed fines upon for none compliance.  His NI rises will be poured into the bottomless pit he refuses to even consider to reform and improve absolutely nothing.  He has no plan for Social Care.  He hasn't delivered any real sort of Brexit that benefits the country just May's BRINO. His main two policies are lunacy he won't use the huge wealth of energy we have but is happy for us to pay through the nose for imported energy driving inflation and Manufacturing Industry out and he wants to pay farmers not to produce food.  That is staggering when Energy and Food security should be top of any governments agenda.  Yes we shall have to agree to disagree.  I voted for him but will never vote Tory again with him at the helm, he is absolutely not what I voted for.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Weihrauch17

[Gordon R]

Quote

Like I said her appointment would have been made through recomendations from Whitty or Vallance or both irrespective of who formally put her in the job, I can hardly see Johnson sitting down interviewing!

You keep repeating this. Have you one shred of proof or is is just another part of your anti Boris rant?

[Scully]

5 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said:

I replied KB did the right thing in spread betting.  I didn't agree with lockdown at all but the vulnerable should have been supported to shield properly.  The amount of 'Covid' money this Government has wasted on absolutely nothing is absolutely staggering.  We won't agree, I detest what he is doing to the economy and the country and we haven't seen anything yet.  He wanted to lockdown at Xmas but was stopped by Cabinet and his backbenchers.  In my mind he has been a total disaster for the country which will become more apparent over the next few months.  He is also arrogant and his actions in number 10 have been totally disrespectful to the country his Government imposed fines upon for none compliance.  His NI rises will be poured into the bottomless pit he refuses to even consider to reform and improve absolutely nothing.  He hasn't delivered any real sort of Brexit that benefits the country. His main two policies are lunacy he won't use the huge wealth of energy we have but is happy for us to pay through the nose for imported energy and he wants to pay farmers not to produce food.  Yes we shall have to agree to disagree.  I voted for him but will never vote Tory again with him at the helm, he is absolutely not what we voted for.

I didn’t agree with the lockdown either and worked throughout, but he was following the advice of his advisors. 
The vulnerable will always be vulnerable unfortunately, in any scenario you care to mention. 
Governments waste money on a monumental scale, but is dwarfed by the wastage of many resources by that of our NHS. 
Successive governments have been promising reform of this that and the other and raising taxes to do so, ever since I can remember, but here we are, seemingly no further forward since Jesus’ dog was a puppy. 
I don’t care about Brexit;  we’re out now and that’s all I wanted. 
Politics and vocal ‘nimby’ movement propaganda prevent any fracking or the huge open mine that was given consent locally, and farmers have been subsidised to grow food and not grow for decades and not just while the Tories have been in charge. 
I voted for him and would do so again, because the alternative is in my opinion, unthinkable. 

[Mice!]

2 hours ago, Weihrauch17 said:

No you are correct I won't give Johnson credit for the work of Kate Bingham or the fact that the unit was set up because he didn't set it up scientists did and they will have put forward KB for the job.  Every single thing he touches is a disaster and every major policy he has is economy wrecking.  The country got through the Pandemic despite him not because of him.  Not arguing the toss over his total ineptitude anymore, you carry on blowing smoke up his backside if you like.  The wheels came off big style when he sacked Cummings and let his woke loony Green teenage bride dictate UK policy.

I won't lie, that made me laugh 😄 

Did a quick Google,  his teen bride is 33

And Dominic Cummings has said its his duty to get rid of BJ, someone has an axe to grind.

Houses around me are selling as soon as they go up for sale, loads and loads of people having building work done everywhere you go, that for me says people are spending and happy so I don't see how the economy is being wrecked. 

Fuel is the same price as it was 7 or 8 years ago because I was getting rid of some receipts a few weeks ago.

 

[Weihrauch17]

It was tongue in cheek, but a 24 year age gap she could be his daughter.   Maybe I should have phrased it better, but with inflation at 7% and in reality probably alot higher.  A NI increase coming to pour into a black hole and huge hikes in energy costs when your fixed contract expires, Council tax rises coming don't forget those people will have less disposable income so something has to give and the economy as a whole will suffer.  A guy at the end of my street has been building a big extension over the last year and he told me his material costs are 45k over his original budget and he knows what he is doing he has done quite a few projects.  He said wagon loads of wood that were £1700 a year ago are now £4000.  None of Johnson's policies do anything to try and reduce the cost of living but are adding to it and we haven't got to the Electric Car and Heat Pump madness that the vast majority simply can't afford.  Demand for housing shooting up and driving up prices is not a good thing for anyone trying to get on the ladder.  We will see what the country thinks in May if he is still in power.  The country is in a dire state poltically and financially.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Weihrauch17