Cjbram Posted February 4, 2022 Report Share Posted February 4, 2022 Hi I reload 12g shotgun cartridges and I'm looking for a good steel fiber wad load if anyone can help thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted February 4, 2022 Report Share Posted February 4, 2022 26 minutes ago, Cjbram said: Hi I reload 12g shotgun cartridges and I'm looking for a good steel fiber wad load if anyone can help thanks How are you protecting the barrel walls from the shot? Are you using the cardboard cup wad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted February 4, 2022 Report Share Posted February 4, 2022 1 hour ago, Cjbram said: Hi I reload 12g shotgun cartridges and I'm looking for a good steel fiber wad load if anyone can help thanks If you get your fibre wad shot cups from clay & game they send some reloading data as well.Which fibrewad cup are you using ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cjbram Posted February 6, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 On 04/02/2022 at 22:18, Stonepark said: How are you protecting the barrel walls from the shot? Are you using the cardboard cup wad? I don't have any yet wads yet was looking for which ones to get thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave at kelton Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 You will need card cup wads from Claygame to protect the barrels. Call them to discuss what you are trying to achieve. One of your issues will be obturator so discuss that too. I am playing with them using an inverted card cup wad over the powder. Can’t buy these though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cjbram Posted February 6, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 Thanks I will ring them tomorrow I have a load in mind so might get them to test it for me I load lead in fiber and steel in plastic just wanting to go steel and fiber for everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet11-87 Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 I liked the idea of these too until I seen it would cost me £150 in wad cups alone to load a 1000 carts. My plan once lead and plastic get banned is to buy an absolute beater of a shotgun for pigeons and kill the barrel using standard fibre wads with steel reloads. Rinse and repeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cjbram Posted February 6, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 Yeah the price of things is getting out of hand but when you look at factory loads 130 140 for 250 and home loads are probably better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 2 hours ago, Sweet11-87 said: I liked the idea of these too until I seen it would cost me £150 in wad cups alone to load a 1000 carts. My plan once lead and plastic get banned is to buy an absolute beater of a shotgun for pigeons and kill the barrel using standard fibre wads with steel reloads. Rinse and repeat. Sounds like a good plan. Not necessarily all " absolute beaters", the way things are going there'll be something half decent at rock bottom prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet11-87 Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 Yep, allot of none steel proof guns will be up for sale no doubt. I picked up a Baikal o/u a while back with 2 sets of barrels both immaculate so that’s the test subject. I reckon they will throw out a good few thousand 28g of 4 steel standard fibre wad carts before I see any significant damage or wear if any at all. It’s gona be a bit of an experiment I may even start a thread and keep updating it to shed light for others. becasue I’m just not buying it thst soft iron will do serious damage to chrome lined steel. Well not at a rate that’s concerning to the average pigeon shooters tools Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sweet11-87 said: Yep, allot of none steel proof guns will be up for sale no doubt. I picked up a Baikal o/u a while back with 2 sets of barrels both immaculate so that’s the test subject. I reckon they will throw out a good few thousand 28g of 4 steel standard fibre wad carts before I see any significant damage or wear if any at all. It’s gona be a bit of an experiment I may even start a thread and keep updating it to shed light for others. becasue I’m just not buying it thst soft iron will do serious damage to chrome lined steel. Well not at a rate that’s concerning to the average pigeon shooters tools Unfortunately there are dealers out there who will only offer a much reduced PX deal for none steel proof guns, and some who won’t take them at all. However, the same dealers won’t take a reduced offer for a none steel proofed gun, on the premise that they can be proved for steel or used for standard steel shot only. In the midst of all this is the fact that lead shot hasn’t been banned; yet if it’s use is to be ‘voluntarily phased out’ for the shooting of game bound for commercial use, then surely the same applies for its use for ALL shooting due to that concern of the environment? Regarding steel shot damaging barrels, that is what the encompassing wad is for….to prevent the shot from coming into contact with the barrels until it has left them. Steel shot proofed barrels are made in exactly the same manner as none steel proofed barrels, and from exactly the same materials, so everything hangs on that wad. Edited February 6, 2022 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tignme Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 I shoot a 35 year old miroku 7000 multi choked trap gun. ive put on average 16000 steel trap loads through it per year for 15 years clays pigeons and duck. The chrome lined barrels are like new. A freind shoots two spanish sxs identical guns and both have rifling from steel shot. hes been advised not to shoot steel by our rfd. another two friends shooting silver pigeons have no problems. they are about 12 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 1 hour ago, tignme said: I shoot a 35 year old miroku 7000 multi choked trap gun. ive put on average 16000 steel trap loads through it per year for 15 years clays pigeons and duck. The chrome lined barrels are like new. A freind shoots two spanish sxs identical guns and both have rifling from steel shot. hes been advised not to shoot steel by our rfd. another two friends shooting silver pigeons have no problems. they are about 12 years old. My 101’s are of at least a similar age to that if your Miroku, and I have put HP steel through those ( although admittedly nowhere near the numbers you state ) without any damage occurring. Like I said, it’s all down to the wad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 6 minutes ago, Scully said: My 101’s are of at least a similar age to that if your Miroku, and I have put HP steel through those ( although admittedly nowhere near the numbers you state ) without any damage occurring. Like I said, it’s all down to the wad. all of this has been done in the states for years probably 40 + also this country’s wildfowlers have been using steel for lots of years it will not damage your gun unless you do something extreme. As Scully says the wad protects the barrel,in the early days of experimenting in the US early seventies the damage reported was caused by using lead wads ,very quickly they realised that they needed stronger wads since then there hasn’t been a problem. This countries game shooters and gun shops are absolutely years behind with there knowledge and experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 4 minutes ago, holloway said: all of this has been done in the states for years probably 40 + also this country’s wildfowlers have been using steel for lots of years it will not damage your gun unless you do something extreme. As Scully says the wad protects the barrel,in the early days of experimenting in the US early seventies the damage reported was caused by using lead wads ,very quickly they realised that they needed stronger wads since then there hasn’t been a problem. This countries game shooters and gun shops are absolutely years behind with there knowledge and experience. except you are forgetting one important difference in the U.K. the transition is to biodegradable wads, so the states do not have 40+ years of knowledge or experience, neither do the cartridge manufactures. With non toxic shot and biodegradable wads this country is leading the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 5 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said: except you are forgetting one important difference in the U.K. the transition is to biodegradable wads, so the states do not have 40+ years of knowledge or experience, neither do the cartridge manufactures. With non toxic shot and biodegradable wads this country is leading the way. Yes you are right , biodegradable wads are a new thing but as with lead shot plastic for the moment is still legal so worry about it when you have to . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 3 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said: except you are forgetting one important difference in the U.K. the transition is to biodegradable wads, so the states do not have 40+ years of knowledge or experience, neither do the cartridge manufactures. With non toxic shot and biodegradable wads this country is leading the way. I think Holloway is referring the US experience of steel shot in guns not proofed for steel shot. Forty + years ago no one worried or cared about single use plastics. Now they do. The UK shooting industry is only now experimenting with biodegradable wads because of a perceived ‘need’ for their requirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 7 minutes ago, holloway said: Yes you are right , biodegradable wads are a new thing but as with lead shot plastic for the moment is still legal so worry about it when you have to . Oh I am not worrying about it. 7 minutes ago, Scully said: I think Holloway is referring the US experience of steel shot in guns not proofed for steel shot. Forty + years ago no one worried or cared about single use plastics. Now they do. The UK shooting industry is only now experimenting with biodegradable wads because of a perceived ‘need’ for their requirement. perceived ‘need’ - to replace one form of pollution lead with another single use plastic would not be tenable for live quarry shooting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 6 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said: Oh I am not worrying about it. perceived ‘need’ - to replace one form of pollution lead with another single use plastic would not be tenable for live quarry shooting? Sorry I was not intending to bring bio degradable wads into this discussion just steel shot in general.Biodegradable wads are a different subject ,not sure what you mean by perceived need etc . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 (edited) I will word it differently, does or should steel shot in general have a future unless used in biodegradable wads? given the goal is a “sustainable cartridge” Edited February 6, 2022 by rbrowning2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 10 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said: Oh I am not worrying about it. perceived ‘need’ - to replace one form of pollution lead with another single use plastic would not be tenable for live quarry shooting? But there is no ‘need’ to replace lead nor single use plastic, other than a perceived need. The former is only a suggestion brought about by our shooting organisations because of a perceived threat to the product produced by game shooting, and therefore game shooting itself, as well as the environment. Strangely enough it is quite acceptable, apparently, to continue to use the latter, both lead and single use plastics for all other shooting! 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 However the buyers of the game are moving towards only sourcing that which is shot with non toxic shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 1 minute ago, rbrowning2 said: However the buyers of the game are moving towards only sourcing that which is shot with non toxic shot. No one is disputing that. 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrowning2 Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 So does steel shot have a future unless used in biodegradable wads? Guess the answer is no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 10 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said: So does steel shot have a future unless used in biodegradable wads? Guess the answer is no. The same future (for the moment as lead) I guess. 14 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said: However the buyers of the game are moving towards only sourcing that which is shot with non toxic shot. Do the buyers of game really exist ? In any numbers I mean ,to me it has always been a weak excuse to justify the shooting of large numbers of shot pheasants.Is there such an industry.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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