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2 hours ago, Sweet11-87 said:

I liked the idea of these too until I seen it would cost me £150 in wad cups alone to load a 1000 carts.

My plan once lead and plastic get banned is to buy an absolute  beater of a shotgun for pigeons and kill the barrel using standard fibre wads with steel reloads. Rinse and repeat.

Sounds like a good plan. Not necessarily all " absolute beaters", the way things are going there'll be something half decent at rock bottom prices.

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Yep, allot of none steel proof guns will be up for sale no doubt. I picked up a Baikal o/u a while back with 2 sets of barrels both immaculate so that’s the test subject.  I reckon they will throw out a good few thousand 28g of 4 steel standard fibre wad carts before I see any significant damage or wear if any at all.  It’s gona be a bit of an experiment I may even start a thread and keep updating it to shed light for others. 
 

becasue I’m just not buying it thst soft iron will do serious damage to chrome lined steel. Well not at a rate that’s concerning to the average pigeon shooters tools 

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1 hour ago, Sweet11-87 said:

Yep, allot of none steel proof guns will be up for sale no doubt. I picked up a Baikal o/u a while back with 2 sets of barrels both immaculate so that’s the test subject.  I reckon they will throw out a good few thousand 28g of 4 steel standard fibre wad carts before I see any significant damage or wear if any at all.  It’s gona be a bit of an experiment I may even start a thread and keep updating it to shed light for others. 
 

becasue I’m just not buying it thst soft iron will do serious damage to chrome lined steel. Well not at a rate that’s concerning to the average pigeon shooters tools 

Unfortunately there are dealers out there who will only offer a much reduced PX deal for none steel proof guns, and some who won’t take them at all. 
However, the same dealers won’t take a reduced offer for a none steel proofed gun, on the premise that they can be proved for steel or used for standard steel shot only. 
In the midst of all this is the fact that lead shot hasn’t been banned; yet if it’s use is to be ‘voluntarily phased out’ for the shooting of game bound for commercial use, then surely the same applies for its use for ALL shooting due to that concern of the environment?

Regarding steel shot damaging barrels, that is what the encompassing wad is for….to prevent the shot from coming into contact with the barrels until it has left them. 
Steel shot proofed barrels are made in exactly the same manner as none steel proofed barrels, and from exactly the same materials, so everything hangs on that wad. 

Edited by Scully
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I shoot a 35 year old miroku 7000 multi choked trap gun. ive put on average 16000 steel trap loads through it per year for 15 years clays pigeons and duck.

The chrome lined barrels are like new.

A freind shoots two spanish sxs identical guns and both have rifling from steel shot. hes been advised not to shoot steel by our rfd.

another two friends shooting silver pigeons have no problems. they are about 12 years old.

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1 hour ago, tignme said:

I shoot a 35 year old miroku 7000 multi choked trap gun. ive put on average 16000 steel trap loads through it per year for 15 years clays pigeons and duck.

The chrome lined barrels are like new.

A freind shoots two spanish sxs identical guns and both have rifling from steel shot. hes been advised not to shoot steel by our rfd.

another two friends shooting silver pigeons have no problems. they are about 12 years old.

My 101’s are of at least a similar age to that if your Miroku, and I have put HP steel through those ( although admittedly nowhere near the numbers you state ) without any damage occurring. Like I said, it’s all down to the wad. 

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6 minutes ago, Scully said:

My 101’s are of at least a similar age to that if your Miroku, and I have put HP steel through those ( although admittedly nowhere near the numbers you state ) without any damage occurring. Like I said, it’s all down to the wad. 

all of this has been done in the states for years probably 40  + also this country’s wildfowlers have been using steel for lots of years it will not damage your gun unless you do something extreme.

As Scully says the wad protects the barrel,in the early days of experimenting in the US early seventies the damage reported was caused by using lead wads ,very quickly they realised that they needed stronger wads since then there hasn’t been a problem.

This countries game shooters and gun shops are absolutely years behind with there knowledge and experience.

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4 minutes ago, holloway said:

all of this has been done in the states for years probably 40  + also this country’s wildfowlers have been using steel for lots of years it will not damage your gun unless you do something extreme.

As Scully says the wad protects the barrel,in the early days of experimenting in the US early seventies the damage reported was caused by using lead wads ,very quickly they realised that they needed stronger wads since then there hasn’t been a problem.

This countries game shooters and gun shops are absolutely years behind with there knowledge and experience.


except you are forgetting one important difference in the U.K. the transition is to biodegradable wads, so the states do not have 40+ years of knowledge or experience, neither do the cartridge manufactures.  With non toxic shot and biodegradable wads this country is leading the way.

 

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5 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:


except you are forgetting one important difference in the U.K. the transition is to biodegradable wads, so the states do not have 40+ years of knowledge or experience, neither do the cartridge manufactures.  With non toxic shot and biodegradable wads this country is leading the way.

 

Yes you are right , biodegradable wads are a new thing but as with lead shot plastic for the moment is still legal so worry about it when you have to .

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3 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:


except you are forgetting one important difference in the U.K. the transition is to biodegradable wads, so the states do not have 40+ years of knowledge or experience, neither do the cartridge manufactures.  With non toxic shot and biodegradable wads this country is leading the way.

 

I think Holloway is referring the US experience of steel shot in guns not proofed for steel shot.
Forty + years ago no one worried or cared about single use plastics. Now they do.

The UK shooting industry is only now experimenting with biodegradable wads because of a perceived ‘need’ for their requirement. 

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7 minutes ago, holloway said:

Yes you are right , biodegradable wads are a new thing but as with lead shot plastic for the moment is still legal so worry about it when you have to .

Oh I am not worrying about it.

 

7 minutes ago, Scully said:

I think Holloway is referring the US experience of steel shot in guns not proofed for steel shot.
Forty + years ago no one worried or cared about single use plastics. Now they do.

The UK shooting industry is only now experimenting with biodegradable wads because of a perceived ‘need’ for their requirement. 


perceived ‘need’ - to replace one form of pollution lead with another single use plastic would not be tenable for live quarry shooting?

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6 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

Oh I am not worrying about it.

 


perceived ‘need’ - to replace one form of pollution lead with another single use plastic would not be tenable for live quarry shooting?

Sorry I was not intending to bring bio degradable wads into this discussion just steel shot in general.Biodegradable wads are a different subject ,not sure what you mean by perceived need etc .

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10 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

Oh I am not worrying about it.

 


perceived ‘need’ - to replace one form of pollution lead with another single use plastic would not be tenable for live quarry shooting?

But there is no ‘need’ to replace lead nor single use plastic, other than a perceived need.
The former is only a suggestion brought about by our shooting organisations because of a perceived threat to the product produced by game shooting, and therefore game shooting itself, as well as the environment. 
Strangely enough it is quite acceptable, apparently, to continue to use the latter, both lead and single use plastics for all other shooting! 🤷‍♂️

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10 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

So does steel shot have a future unless used in biodegradable wads? Guess the answer is no.

The same future (for the moment as lead) I guess.

14 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

However the buyers of the game are moving towards only sourcing that which is shot with non toxic shot.

Do the buyers of game really exist ? In any numbers I mean ,to me it has always been a weak excuse to justify the shooting of large numbers of shot pheasants.Is there such an industry.?

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