Our dog's operation

[steve_b_wales]

Our young dog (10 month old Cockapoo bitch) had two operations yesterday. One to have her spayed, and the other, to remove a 'growth'? from her head. When she was younger, she had a 'lump' under her skin, which grew slowly. It ended with a sort of scab. We took her to the vet who shaved a part of her head then broke the scab off. It revealed a 'hole' and when the vet put tweezers into it, she pulled out fur. The vet said that she'd never come across this before. She brought her spaying operation forward by a month, which did worry us to be honest. Anyway, the operation/s went well. The vet said that it appeared that something was under her skin which caused the lump. It's been sent off to have it tested. Meg now feels sorry for herself, and a bit subdued. She appears to be confused and just stands still in the lounge/kitchen. The vet said it could be 24/48 hrs for the anaesthetic to wear off. Hopefully, all will be okay with her. The photo shows Meg's head after her op'. I can't find the photo I took of the 'hole' in her head.

I paid the vet £783:20 in total. We were quoted £350 for the spaying, the rest for her head op'. We've got her insured, but not for the spaying, as that's not included in the insurance, and have to pay the first £100. The vet said that she would try and put as much as the other op' onto the insurance, as that's not covered.  But at the end of the day, how do I put a price on my dog?

 

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by steve_b_wales

[ditchman]

when my dogs went under the knife ...it was at least 2 days before they got their mojo back...dont worry

[Walker570]

Poor little pup. Hope she is soon back to full health.

[steve_b_wales]

This was Meg's head when the Vet removed the scab. It was full of 'cheesy pus'. 

[Walker570]

YUK and just before tea time. Maybe cream cheese on toast...NOT.   Hope she is doing well

[7daysinaweek]

Very possibly it has been a sebaceous cyst that has formed a hair collection then epithelialization has closed the sinus (the hole) resulting in a slow collection forming. Dealt with a fair few hair collection cysts in human scalps over the years. Only today I was squeezing a large purulent erupting abscess on someones back, it squirted like a small volcano. 

Deal with them almost on a daily basis.

By the way that looks like a tidy job that the vet has done! 👍

[WalkedUp]

38 minutes ago, 7daysinaweek said:

Only today I was squeezing a large purulent erupting abscess on someones back, it squirted like a small volcano.

Don’t make me rue my teenage folly to read architecture rather than medicine 😢

[7daysinaweek]

23 minutes ago, WalkedUp said:

Don’t make me rue my teenage folly to read architecture rather than medicine 😢

Into work this morning at 8am and at approximately 8.15 I was in the waiting room cleaning up a large pool of vomit. A few in the waiting room commented to each other about the smell. Someone being sick in a clinical enviroment, surely not, how could this happen!

I thought, well we are not in debenhans are we now!

All in a days work. 👍

[steve_b_wales]

9 hours ago, 7daysinaweek said:

Very possibly it has been a sebaceous cyst that has formed a hair collection then epithelialization has closed the sinus (the hole) resulting in a slow collection forming. Dealt with a fair few hair collection cysts in human scalps over the years. Only today I was squeezing a large purulent erupting abscess on someones back, it squirted like a small volcano. 

Deal with them almost on a daily basis.

By the way that looks like a tidy job that the vet has done! 👍

The spay stitches look good but I'm not too sure about the head ones I've no doubt that they will heal soon, fur will cover it/them and we can put this behind us. Hopefully no more visits to the vet. Insured or otherwise. Look

Edited May 21, 2022 by steve_b_wales

[7daysinaweek]

1 hour ago, steve_b_wales said:

The spay stitches look good but I'm not too sure about the head ones I've no doubt that they will heal soon, fur will cover it/them and we can out this behind us. Hopefully no more visits to the vet. Insured or otherwise.

👍

[Rob85]

On 20/05/2022 at 19:28, 7daysinaweek said:

Very possibly it has been a sebaceous cyst that has formed a hair collection then epithelialization has closed the sinus (the hole) resulting in a slow collection forming. Dealt with a fair few hair collection cysts in human scalps over the years. Only today I was squeezing a large purulent erupting abscess on someones back, it squirted like a small volcano. 

Deal with them almost on a daily basis.

By the way that looks like a tidy job that the vet has done! 👍

My older dog had something like that a couple of years ago, it was a lump with a wee scab, because it had the scab I chances giving it a wee squeeze and there was an eruption of thick cream cheese like stuff.

I gave it a good flushing out with a massive load of alcohol wash... hand sanitiser that we all had gallons off 2 years ago! It kinda filled again and I gave it the same treatment and it hasn't come back since.

I'll admit when I felt the lump I panicked a bit as we all do when we feel a lump!

[7daysinaweek]

4 hours ago, Rob85 said:

My older dog had something like that a couple of years ago, it was a lump with a wee scab, because it had the scab I chances giving it a wee squeeze and there was an eruption of thick cream cheese like stuff.

I gave it a good flushing out with a massive load of alcohol wash... hand sanitiser that we all had gallons off 2 years ago! It kinda filled again and I gave it the same treatment and it hasn't come back since.

I'll admit when I felt the lump I panicked a bit as we all do when we feel a lump!

Afternoon Rob

I was once told this by our vet who I 'natter' with at times that dogs have a similar skin anatomy and cell characteristics to humans. It could have well been a cyst/abscess you found on your dog and it sounds like your minor surgical intervention sorted the problem out. Scalpel, Forceps! 

Cysts of the many different types are typically painless and grow slower.  Abscesses of the skin and muscle form quicker, predominantly from staphylococcal infection that has gained access from the outer layer of skin to the lower layers of skin or muscle due to injury and are more filled with purulent bacterial discharge accompanied with incresing heat and pain over the area. As the abscess forms, more skin inflamation (erythema) which is typically red and angry spreads into the surrounding area increasing the risk of further skin infection such as cellulitis and other complications. They can also form deeper in the body in bone and organs due to bacteria and the response form your immune system and the pathogens that the bacteria produces.

Some abscesses may respond very early on to oral antibiotics, however as the abscess forms the ability for antibiotic to penetrate the abscess is decreased and may then require incision and draining. In the case as above in @steve_b_wales dog Meg, the surgical scalp head wound has been closed through what is known as 'primary intention' which means that the surgical wound was considered a low risk for post op infection. This approach has been taken as it would have been considered that there was good availabilty of viable skin and tissue to cleanly close the wound, thus decreasing the risk of post surgery infection and healing the surgical wound in the quickest time and from a wound care point this type of closure has lowest post complication risks. Remember all wounds carry some risk both non surgical and surgical.

Some wounds are left to heal by 'secondary intention' which means the wounds are not closed surgically or only partially surgical. These are wounds that would be considered as 'dirty wounds', wounds with a delayed presentation of typically 8 hours and above (greater risk of colonisation of bacteria to the wound after that time as they can establish themselves quickly) penetrating wounds that may be difficult to remove all foreign organisms which have infiltrated into the skin, muscle and deeper musculature. Obviously these type of wound increase the risk of a post surgical infection if closed, so these are left open after a deep cleanse and are left to heal by secondary intention by the natural healing process of the body eventually replacing tendon, muscle, adipose (fat) and skin, this can be a very long process if the wound is large and deep. Other factors such as age, diet, health conditions will play a significant role in wound healing outcomes.

Lastly, wounds can be healed through 'tertiary intention' which is in effect is a delayed 'primary intention' process, so a wound that is deemed a higher risk of initial infection is left open to drain and heal to an extent and then is surgically closed at later time. A example of this could be a burn which results in large surface area skin loss, or a penetrating injury which was deemed on presentation to be higher risk of over colonisation infection taking into account the persons presentation and the exact mechanism of the injury (MOI). Once the infection has cleared the pt has a skin graft to close the wound area at a later time. So as you can see wounds are closed through primary, secondary and tertiary intention.

All penetrating wounds such as animal bites, human bites, wood, metal, glass foreign bodies etc may lead to worsenening infection and complications, FB'S and penetration wounds over a bony joint or one which results in a fracture of the bone from a skin penetration are a higher risk of infection and complications. These are classed as open fractures. Thankfully not all all FB and non fracture penetrating wounds go on to have complications and many smaller wounds with good initial management will resolve without great incidence. As with any wound or injury if you have concerns you should get it checked.

There you are a quick lesson in brief surgical and wound care interventions. 

Typically in humans as I would suspect in dogs is that they can feel a bit 'off' with a raised temperature and heart rate among other signs which are increased in direct inflamatory response to the infection among other processes. Like babies and young children, animals obviously are a great deal non verbal so signs of changes in behaviour and habits are key to picking up when something is not quite as it should be.

As you say Rob as with all lumps, bumps and growths and lesions be it on your animal or yourself they are always a bit of a concern, however thankfully for most these malaides don not turn out to be of any major concern.

Always best to get your animal or yourself checked if you find anything that may concern.

Check yer bits! 

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by 7daysinaweek

[Rob85]

3 hours ago, 7daysinaweek said:

Afternoon Rob

I was once told this by our vet who I 'natter' with at times that dogs have a similar skin anatomy and cell characteristics to humans. It could have well been a cyst/abscess you found on your dog and it sounds like your minor surgical intervention sorted the problem out. Scalpel, Forceps! 

Cysts of the many different types are typically painless and grow slower.  Abscesses of the skin and muscle form quicker, predominantly from staphylococcal infection that has gained access from the outer layer of skin to the lower layers of skin or muscle due to injury and are more filled with purulent bacterial discharge accompanied with incresing heat and pain over the area. As the abscess forms, more skin inflamation (erythema) which is typically red and angry spreads into the surrounding area increasing the risk of further skin infection such as cellulitis and other complications. They can also form deeper in the body in bone and organs due to bacteria and the response form your immune system and the pathogens that the bacteria produces.

Some abscesses may respond very early on to oral antibiotics, however as the abscess forms the ability for antibiotic to penetrate the abscess is decreased and may then require incision and draining. In the case as above in @steve_b_wales dog Meg, the surgical scalp head wound has been closed through what is known as 'primary intention' which means that the surgical wound was considered a low risk for post op infection. This approach has been taken as it would have been considered that there was good availabilty of viable skin and tissue to cleanly close the wound, thus decreasing the risk of post surgery infection and healing the surgical wound in the quickest time and from a wound care point this type of closure has lowest post complication risks. Remember all wounds carry some risk both non surgical and surgical.

Some wounds are left to heal by 'secondary intention' which means the wounds are not closed surgically or only partially surgical. These are wounds that would be considered as 'dirty wounds', wounds with a delayed presentation of typically 8 hours and above (greater risk of colonisation of bacteria to the wound after that time as they can establish themselves quickly) penetrating wounds that may be difficult to remove all foreign organisms which have infiltrated into the skin, muscle and deeper musculature. Obviously these type of wound increase the risk of a post surgical infection if closed, so these are left open after a deep cleanse and are left to heal by secondary intention by the natural healing process of the body eventually replacing tendon, muscle, adipose (fat) and skin, this can be a very long process if the wound is large and deep. Other factors such as age, diet, health conditions will play a significant role in wound healing outcomes.

Lastly, wounds can be healed through 'tertiary intention' which is in effect is a delayed 'primary intention' process, so a wound that is deemed a higher risk of initial infection is left open to drain and heal to an extent and then is surgically closed at later time. A example of this could be a burn which results in large surface area skin loss, or a penetrating injury which was deemed on presentation to be higher risk of over colonisation infection taking into account the persons presentation and the exact mechanism of the injury (MOI). Once the infection has cleared the pt has a skin graft to close the wound area at a later time. So as you can see wounds are closed through primary, secondary and tertiary intention.

All penetrating wounds such as animal bites, human bites, wood, metal, glass foreign bodies etc may lead to worsenening infection and complications, FB'S and penetration wounds over a bony joint or one which results in a fracture of the bone from a skin penetration are a higher risk of infection and complications. These are classed as open fractures. Thankfully not all all FB and non fracture penetrating wounds go on to have complications and many smaller wounds with good initial management will resolve without great incidence. As with any wound or injury if you have concerns you should get it checked.

There you are a quick lesson in brief surgical and wound care interventions. 

Typically in humans as I would suspect in dogs is that they can feel a bit 'off' with a raised temperature and heart rate among other signs which are increased in direct inflamatory response to the infection among other processes. Like babies and young children, animals obviously are a great deal non verbal so signs of changes in behaviour and habits are key to picking up when something is not quite as it should be.

As you say Rob as with all lumps, bumps and growths and lesions be it on your animal or yourself they are always a bit of a concern, however thankfully for most these malaides don not turn out to be of any major concern.

Always best to get your animal or yourself checked if you find anything that may concern.

Check yer bits! 

 

Your last sentence sums it up really, since I lost my old cocker a couple of years ago to mammary cancer I find every time I stroke my dogs im feeling them for any abnormalities because as we know they can't do it for themselves. Even more important right now with ticks about!

My new pup went in for her 2nd round of vaccinations and I had the vet check the wee remnant of her umbilicle as I was concerned it wasnt closing, as with most things I was told nothing to worry about right then but keep an eye on it. That little bit of reassurance goes a long way

[7daysinaweek]

Glad to hear that!

👍

[bigbird]

7 hours ago, 7daysinaweek said:

Afternoon Rob

I was once told this by our vet who I 'natter' with at times that dogs have a similar skin anatomy and cell characteristics to humans. It could have well been a cyst/abscess you found on your dog and it sounds like your minor surgical intervention sorted the problem out. Scalpel, Forceps! 

Cysts of the many different types are typically painless and grow slower.  Abscesses of the skin and muscle form quicker, predominantly from staphylococcal infection that has gained access from the outer layer of skin to the lower layers of skin or muscle due to injury and are more filled with purulent bacterial discharge accompanied with incresing heat and pain over the area. As the abscess forms, more skin inflamation (erythema) which is typically red and angry spreads into the surrounding area increasing the risk of further skin infection such as cellulitis and other complications. They can also form deeper in the body in bone and organs due to bacteria and the response form your immune system and the pathogens that the bacteria produces.

Some abscesses may respond very early on to oral antibiotics, however as the abscess forms the ability for antibiotic to penetrate the abscess is decreased and may then require incision and draining. In the case as above in @steve_b_wales dog Meg, the surgical scalp head wound has been closed through what is known as 'primary intention' which means that the surgical wound was considered a low risk for post op infection. This approach has been taken as it would have been considered that there was good availabilty of viable skin and tissue to cleanly close the wound, thus decreasing the risk of post surgery infection and healing the surgical wound in the quickest time and from a wound care point this type of closure has lowest post complication risks. Remember all wounds carry some risk both non surgical and surgical.

Some wounds are left to heal by 'secondary intention' which means the wounds are not closed surgically or only partially surgical. These are wounds that would be considered as 'dirty wounds', wounds with a delayed presentation of typically 8 hours and above (greater risk of colonisation of bacteria to the wound after that time as they can establish themselves quickly) penetrating wounds that may be difficult to remove all foreign organisms which have infiltrated into the skin, muscle and deeper musculature. Obviously these type of wound increase the risk of a post surgical infection if closed, so these are left open after a deep cleanse and are left to heal by secondary intention by the natural healing process of the body eventually replacing tendon, muscle, adipose (fat) and skin, this can be a very long process if the wound is large and deep. Other factors such as age, diet, health conditions will play a significant role in wound healing outcomes.

Lastly, wounds can be healed through 'tertiary intention' which is in effect is a delayed 'primary intention' process, so a wound that is deemed a higher risk of initial infection is left open to drain and heal to an extent and then is surgically closed at later time. A example of this could be a burn which results in large surface area skin loss, or a penetrating injury which was deemed on presentation to be higher risk of over colonisation infection taking into account the persons presentation and the exact mechanism of the injury (MOI). Once the infection has cleared the pt has a skin graft to close the wound area at a later time. So as you can see wounds are closed through primary, secondary and tertiary intention.

All penetrating wounds such as animal bites, human bites, wood, metal, glass foreign bodies etc may lead to worsenening infection and complications, FB'S and penetration wounds over a bony joint or one which results in a fracture of the bone from a skin penetration are a higher risk of infection and complications. These are classed as open fractures. Thankfully not all all FB and non fracture penetrating wounds go on to have complications and many smaller wounds with good initial management will resolve without great incidence. As with any wound or injury if you have concerns you should get it checked.

There you are a quick lesson in brief surgical and wound care interventions. 

Typically in humans as I would suspect in dogs is that they can feel a bit 'off' with a raised temperature and heart rate among other signs which are increased in direct inflamatory response to the infection among other processes. Like babies and young children, animals obviously are a great deal non verbal so signs of changes in behaviour and habits are key to picking up when something is not quite as it should be.

As you say Rob as with all lumps, bumps and growths and lesions be it on your animal or yourself they are always a bit of a concern, however thankfully for most these malaides don not turn out to be of any major concern.

Always best to get your animal or yourself checked if you find anything that may concern.

Check yer bits! 

 

Wow that’s really interesting thanks for posting that!

How is she Steve?

[7daysinaweek]

15 hours ago, bigbird said:

Wow that’s really interesting thanks for posting that!

How is she Steve?

👍

[steve_b_wales]

17 hours ago, 7daysinaweek said:

👍

She's okay thanks. The only thing at the moment is that she is scratching madly around the sides of her spaying scar, not actually on the scar itself. Because her fur has been shaved around that area, I think it's itching because of it starting to grow back again. Where she is scratching is becoming red due to no protection from fur. We are debating to get her a dog 'vest' today to cover it. The scar itself is healing lovely, as is the one on her head. 

Edited May 24, 2022 by steve_b_wales

[7daysinaweek]

👍

[steve_b_wales]

9 hours ago, steve_b_wales said:

She's okay thanks. The only thing at the moment is that she is scratching madly around the sides of her spaying scar, not actually on the scar itself. Because her fur has been shaved around that area, I think it's itching because of it starting to grow back again. Where she is scratching is becoming red due to no protection from fur. We are debating to get her a dog 'vest' today to cover it. The scar itself is healing lovely, as is the one on her head. 

UPDATE: I contacted the vet, who said that they do sell the type of vest we need, at £28, PLUS a £31:00 'consultation fee' as well. We ended up with my wife getting some Sudocreme, which can be used on pets (sparingly) and she put one of her old jumpers on the dog and I then cut it to shape. I added some camo' bandage to secure it around her body. This seems to have worked so far, she's not scratching so much. 

Edited May 24, 2022 by steve_b_wales

[steve_b_wales]

UPDATE:

Meg has had her head stitches removed yesterday, and is now bouncing back to being 'normal' again. The vet said that the lump on her head was a cyst, caused by keratin (which makes hair/nails) inside it. The vet stated that this was a first for her, as she hadn't seen anything similar to this before. Her head has healed up nice, and her fur is starting to grow back.

 

Edited May 31, 2022 by steve_b_wales

[samboy]

Pleased for you and the dog Steve. It's always a worry.

[steve_b_wales]

55 minutes ago, samboy said:

Pleased for you and the dog Steve. It's always a worry.

Thanks. It certainly was a worry, but all's okay now, and hopefully no more appointments at the Vet's.

[ditchman]

christ that has healed up well...and the hair is growing really quickly.............must be feeding it good stuff

[steve_b_wales]

1 hour ago, ditchman said:

christ that has healed up well...and the hair is growing really quickly.............must be feeding it good stuff

It is quick and has surprised me too. We feed Meg on John Burns dry food. She was on this after being weaned, and she loves it.