Best 20 guage Game cartridge

[Shotkam]

With the end of the season fast approaching and a fair few new game cartridges launched in 2022, I am interested to hear what others have found to be the best 20 guage cartridges for these tough high flying pheasants at this stage of the season.

I have had stocks of Gamebore Black Gold 32g No 5 fibre to use up, but of course the pattern fails early because of the continental shot size.

[old'un]

“the pattern fails early because of the continental shot size”

 

Not sure what you mean by that but if they are not up to the job why did you buy them?

Just noticed, you have put your post in the SALES section?

 

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by old'un

[Shotkam]

6 minutes ago, old'un said:

“the pattern fails early because of the continental shot size”

 

Not sure what you mean by that but if they are not up to the job why did you buy them?

Basically the pattern density is insufficient at the range that the pellets still have enough energy to kill a bird humanely, as a No 5 is No. 4 1/3   -  Smokersmith talks about this in detail in :  Game shooting - Which aftermarket Teague Super Extended 20 gauge choke combination ? 

[enfieldspares]

I write of using a standard sub 6lbs weight side by side chambered for 70mm cartridges.

My late father, he died in 1987, shot for the last years of having a gun at Woburn a G E Lewis "Light Magnum" 20 bore, These were twenty six inch length barrelled boxlock ejectors chambered for the 2 3/4" Eley Alphamax and its 1 ounce load. He used either Alphamax or the standard 20 bore 2 1/2" Grand Prix with 13/16 ounce loads. He always used English #5. 

I used that gun to shoot a right and left at wigeon on my own pond some years ago but, FWIW, I favoured English #6 in what was by then the standard 2 1/2" load of 7/8 ounce. Unless you've tight choke and the skills to hit "high birds" I think that English #5 is not a good choice. Not a good choice at all save for ground game.

Pattern fails before penetration and if we accept that it takes 1.5 ft/lbs of energy per pellet to kill a pheasant then English #6 in a standard velocity loading will have that out to forty-five yards. Maybe fifty if the strike is two or three pellets.

So my advice would be anything with English #6 and just one ounce but of premium quality plated or at least 3% antimony well graded shot. I see little point in firing a 12 bore load through a 20 bore gun as my belief is it is bad for both the gun and the "gun".

If you want a 12 bore load buy a 12 bore it'll shoot it better than the same weight of shot in a 20 bore.

Edited January 10, 2023 by enfieldspares

[Shotkam]

2 minutes ago, enfieldspares said:

I write of using a standard sub 6lbs weight side by side chambered for 70mm cartridges.

My late father, he died in 1987, shot for the last years of having a gun at Woburn a G E Lewis "Light Magnum" 20 bore, These were boxlock ejectors chambered for the 2 3/4" Eley Alphamax and its 1 ounce load. He used either Alphamax or the standard 20 bore 2 1/2" Grand Prix with 13/16 ounce loads. He always used English #5. 

I used that gun to shoot a right and left at wigeon on my own pond some years ago but, FWIW, I favoured English #6 in what was by then the standard 2 1/2" load of 7/8 ounce. Unless you've tight choke and the skills to hit "high birds" I think that English #5 is not a good choice. Not a good choice at all save for ground game.

Pattern fails before penetration and if we accept that it takes 1.5 ft/lbs of energy per pellet to kill a pheasant then English #6 in a standard velocity loading will have that out to forty-five yards. Maybe fifty if the strike is two or three pellets.

So my advice would be anything with English #6 and just one ounce but of premium quality plated or at least 3% antimony well graded shot. I see little point in firing a 12 bore load through a 20 bore gun as my belief is it is bad for both the gun and the "gun".

If you want a 12 bore load buy a 12 bore it'll shoot it better than the same weight of shot in a 20 bore and I have fired a significant ammount with no adverse affects to gun or myself..

What an excellent post thankyou, I agree and understood all what you say mainly learnt from yourself and others but this was after I had bought a whack of Gamebore a few years ago. If I had known then what I know now I would have bought a true English No 6 probably Hull High pheasant Extreme.

I my experience on the pattern plate, I achieve better patterns at range using 1/4 and 1/2 Teague chokes and 32 gram loads in my gun do not have a recoil issue.

 

[Scully]

1 minute ago, Shotkam said:

What an excellent post thankyou, I agree and understood all what you say mainly learnt from yourself and others but this was after I had bought a whack of Gamebore a few years ago. If I had known then what I know now I would have bought a true English No 6 probably Hull High pheasant Extreme.

I my experience on the pattern plate, I achieve better patterns at range using 1/4 and 1/2 Teague chokes and 32 gram loads in my gun do not have a recoil issue.

 

If you’ve got a ‘whack’ of them then best to get them used up! 🙂

On BIG shoot the guns have been using Eley Eco pro wad in steel 4’s in their 20’s. No idea what choke. We have high birds all season and they appear to do the job. 

[Shotkam]

5 minutes ago, Scully said:

If you’ve got a ‘whack’ of them then best to get them used up! 🙂

On BIG shoot the guns have been using Eley Eco pro wad in steel 4’s in their 20’s. No idea what choke. We have high birds all season and they appear to do the job. 

Ha Ha  - there are not many left now.

I have never used those Hull Game cartridges and I am looking forward to seeing how they pattern. Unfortunately locals dealers have none and neither do Just Cartridges !

[Fellside]

4 minutes ago, Shotkam said:

What an excellent post thankyou, I agree and understood all what you say mainly learnt from yourself and others but this was after I had bought a whack of Gamebore a few years ago. If I had known then what I know now I would have bought a true English No 6 probably Hull High pheasant Extreme.

I my experience on the pattern plate, I achieve better patterns at range using 1/4 and 1/2 Teague chokes and 32 gram loads in my gun do not have a recoil issue.

 

I can’t speak from direct experience of using a 20 bore. However, the syndicate where I regularly shoot has 3 guns using 20 bores. They seem to have settled with Hull High Pheasant Extreme 6s, which I believe are a continental 6, so about a 5 1/2. These are 28 grams. I have seen them kill some impressive high birds - out to about 50 ish yards. That’s all I can offer. 

[old'un]

17 minutes ago, Shotkam said:

What an excellent post thankyou, I agree and understood all what you say mainly learnt from yourself and others but this was after I had bought a whack of Gamebore a few years ago. If I had known then what I know now I would have bought a true English No 6 probably Hull High pheasant Extreme.

I my experience on the pattern plate, I achieve better patterns at range using 1/4 and 1/2 Teague chokes and 32 gram loads in my gun do not have a recoil issue.

 

Can never understand why people buy a 20 bore and the stick 32g of whatever shot through them, might as-well stick to a 12 bore.

[Fellside]

Just now, Fellside said:

I can’t speak from direct experience of using a 20 bore. However, the syndicate where I regularly shoot has 3 guns using 20 bores. They seem to have settled with Hull High Pheasant Extreme 6s, which I believe are a continental 6, so about a 5 1/2. These are 28 grams. I have seen them kill some impressive high birds - out to about 50 ish yards. That’s all I can offer. 

Sorry - just seen your post re limited supply. This is strange as they are popular. I buy my 12 bore Hull cart’s from a farm shop and they have plenty of 12s and 20s. 

[Shotkam]

6 minutes ago, Fellside said:

I can’t speak from direct experience of using a 20 bore. However, the syndicate where I regularly shoot has 3 guns using 20 bores. They seem to have settled with Hull High Pheasant Extreme 6s, which I believe are a continental 6, so about a 5 1/2. These are 28 grams. I have seen them kill some impressive high birds - out to about 50 ish yards. That’s all I can offer. 

Mmm, thanks - I was considering trying those.🤔

[Fellside]

2 minutes ago, Shotkam said:

Mmm, thanks - I was considering trying those.🤔

I would buy a single box - and pattern them. If you like the patterns and they hold together at range, then you have you’re ‘confidence cartridge’. If you’re gun likes them buy a boat load, because they’re going up in price every five minutes it seems…!

[old'un]

tell you what, buy yourself a couple of boxes of 28g-30g 6s or even 7s and see how you get on, think you will be supersized at how well they kill at range, if you are on target that is.

[Shotkam]

6 minutes ago, old'un said:

tell you what, buy yourself a couple of boxes of 28g-30g 6s or even 7s and see how you get on, think you will be supersized at how well they kill at range, if you are on target that is.

Yes, I am 100% with you on that, I just can't seem to get away from the idea in my head that heavier loads give an advantage, when clearly I know that they are not !

I do a lot of pest control on Corvids and having shot thousands over the years using 21gram fibre 7 1/2gram I think it is time to accept that heavy loads and large shot size are not necessarily the optimum.

As we all know - true 50 yard birds are the exception rather than the rule on a driven game day whatever anyone claims. 

[Jimbo yorks]

I was shooting crows out to around 70 yards with hull high phesent extreme 30 gram 5s back in June with my 20. Got some for some days at the back end of the season last year and had a few left over I was very very impressed with them.

Most phesants are between 20-30 yards on my shoot being a small friends and family type so I tend to use 26 gram 6 or 28 gram 5 black golds or high phesant.

Put the shot in the right place it brings them down.

 

 

[Fellside]

29 minutes ago, Shotkam said:

Yes, I am 100% with you on that, I just can't seem to get away from the idea in my head that heavier loads give an advantage, when clearly I know that they are not !

I do a lot of pest control on Corvids and having shot thousands over the years using 21gram fibre 7 1/2gram I think it is time to accept that heavy loads and large shot size are not necessarily the optimum.

As we all know - true 50 yard birds are the exception rather than the rule on a driven game day whatever anyone claims. 

If you shoot on hilly ground - steep slopes and deep valleys etc - you will certainly see plenty of genuine 50 yard birds. I think much higher than this and they aren’t too useful anyway. I have been on some low ground shoots where there are wild exaggerated claims of range, because the guns just aren’t used to seeing tall stuff. Just about anything kills average birds - even a 410. You might not need heavy ammo…? As Jimbo Yorks points out 26 grams are often fine for the average tree toppers. It’s just a thought - as I don’t know what kind of topography you’re used to. 

[wymberley]

56 minutes ago, Shotkam said:

What an excellent post thankyou, I agree and understood all what you say mainly learnt from yourself and others but this was after I had bought a whack of Gamebore a few years ago. If I had known then what I know now I would have bought a true English No 6 probably Hull High pheasant Extreme.

I my experience on the pattern plate, I achieve better patterns at range using 1/4 and 1/2 Teague chokes and 32 gram loads in my gun do not have a recoil issue.

 

Did anyone get you the 2023 Eley Diary for Christmas? The ballistic tables therein use Imperial measurements through out which is handy, but where applicable metric also. Unfortunately, perhaps, those involving velocities use the 'observed' (OV) version. Again, unfortunately, the tables which I have do not quite equate to the velocities used in the Diary. However, using a slightly higher OV of 1150 ft/sec equates nicely to the MV of the Hull loads mentioned, so adding a yard or, perhaps, two to the 1120 ft/sec High Velocity Striking energy table figure does give us some 50 yds for the 5 shot but 42 yds only for the 6s for the required 1.5 ftlbs.

[Shotkam]

6 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Did anyone get you the 2023 Eley Diary for Christmas? The ballistic tables therein use Imperial measurements through out which is handy, but where applicable metric also. Unfortunately, perhaps, those involving velocities use the 'observed' (OV) version. Again, unfortunately, the tables which I have do not quite equate to the velocities used in the Diary. However, using a slightly higher OV of 1150 ft/sec equates nicely to the MV of the Hull loads mentioned, so adding a yard or, perhaps, two to the 1120 ft/sec High Velocity Striking energy table figure does give us some 50 yds for the 5 shot but 42 yds only for the 6s for the required 1.5 ftlbs.

No but interesting comments thankyou.

10 minutes ago, Fellside said:

If you shoot on hilly ground - steep slopes and deep valleys etc - you will certainly see plenty of genuine 50 yard birds. I think much higher than this and they aren’t too useful anyway. I have been on some low ground shoots where there are wild exaggerated claims of range, because the guns just aren’t used to seeing tall stuff. Just about anything kills average birds - even a 410. You might not need heavy ammo…? As Jimbo Yorks points out 26 grams are often fine for the average tree toppers. It’s just a thought - as I don’t know what kind of topography you’re used to. 

I shoot on hilly ground, but even so the vast majority are not a true 50 yards above your head, some are of course and they are not average tree toppers.

Hull High Pheasant are true English sizes whereas the Extreme are 1/2 a shot size larger so less pellets per oz. 

[Fellside]

45 minutes ago, Shotkam said:

No but interesting comments thankyou.

I shoot on hilly ground, but even so the vast majority are not a true 50 yards above your head, some are of course and they are not average tree toppers.

Hull High Pheasant are true English sizes whereas the Extreme are 1/2 a shot size larger so less pellets per oz. 

Sure, not all birds will have listened to the brief, and fly as high as they should…🙂

I shoot with a pal where the birds are a bit lofty shall we say. He does in fact use a 12, but his cartridges are 1 oz (28 gram) UK 5s. Never more. He’s a decent shot and has no trouble knocking them down. Food for thought….?

 

[Shotkam]

1 hour ago, Jimbo yorks said:

I was shooting crows out to around 70 yards with hull high phesent extreme 30 gram 5s back in June with my 20. Got some for some days at the back end of the season last year and had a few left over I was very very impressed with them.

Most phesants are between 20-30 yards on my shoot being a small friends and family type so I tend to use 26 gram 6 or 28 gram 5 black golds or high phesant.

Put the shot in the right place it brings them down.

 

 

Interesting, Hull HPE No 6 being a 5 1/2 will of course give you the densest pattern out of several of the leading brands for birds up to circa 50 yards so I will start with them.

[Fellside]

18 minutes ago, Shotkam said:

Interesting, Hull HPE No 6 being a 5 1/2 will of course give you the densest pattern out of several of the leading brands for birds up to circa 50 yards so I will start with them.

Hearing good things about these 👍

[Shotkam]

12 minutes ago, Fellside said:

Hearing good things about these 👍

An Estate where I shoot there was a team of 'old money' guns last season and the best shots in the team were using 28G No 6 fibre and those birds were right up there. 

One gun killed the 1st 5 stone dead.

I thought at the time - 'there's a message here'

[Fellside]

16 minutes ago, Shotkam said:

An Estate where I shoot there was a team of 'old money' guns last season and the best shots in the team were using 28G No 6 fibre and those birds were right up there. 

One gun killed the 1st 5 stone dead.

I thought at the time - 'there's a message here'

I must admit - and the reason I’ve taken an interest in this thread - is that I am quite tempted by the 20. Those who take the plunge never seem to want a 12 again. 

[Shotkam]

I have used a 12 all my life exclusively and 20 for last 3 years. I can't see me going back to a chunky heavier 12 even though cartridges are far less costly. Probably put 10, 000 through my 36 year old Browning.

[Ultrastu]

My info on the gamebore black gold is that the no5 shot is 2.9 mm lead BUT once it has been plated in there shiny stuff it tends to measure around 3.2 - 3.3 mm making the shot more like a no 4 or no 3 . Meaning the pellet count is much less that you expect .no wonder the pattern fails .I moved away from them also .and now use either 7.5 or no6 .