Back on it

[Jim Neal]

I've had a real torrid time with my shooting throughout the last couple of years.  Not to ramble on too much and repeat myself, I've had some nightmare days, ending up extremely frustrated with my inability to hit anything.  I've developed a very strong lack of trust in the cartridges I've been using but have been a bit reticent to blame the shells, especially two brands on the trot.... maybe I've forgotten how to shoot?

Something had to be done, because it's now the important part of the year when I get to go roost shooting so there was only one thing for it.  On Friday, I went shopping.  A short while later I staggered out of my local gun shop with a slab each of two different loads by Hull.   I've noticed a lot of people advocate using smaller shot sizes for a better pattern, rather than trying the brute force approach with heavy loads of big pellets.  After the frustration of the last couple of years, I was willing to try anything to get back in the swing of things.  Therefore I armed myself with the 29g no.6 Superfast Pigeon as a "safe bet" and took a punt on the 27g 7.5 Superfast clay load to see what the fuss was all about.

The weather on Saturday was almost the worst roost shooting weather you could imagine.  The air was virtually still, but at least there was a reasonable amount of cloud; enough for it to be a little dull in the woods late in the afternoon.  A chap called Matt moved in to the village about 2 years ago.  He shoots elsewhere but has been coming along beating for our syndicate the last couple of seasons.  He's been quite keen to come out roost shooting, so I made arrangements to pick him up around 2pm so we could have a cruise around a few likely spots to see what was about.

We don't have all that many reliable places for roost shooting on our land.  Inexplicably, some woods just don't attract pigeons to roost in any sort of number that would make you stand there with a gun for a couple of hours (I have learned this the hard way over the years, naturally!).  The big wood where I do my keeping duties for the shoot can be good fun, albeit difficult to shoot, but some years nothing comes in.  The pigeons have been teasing me the last couple of months here - they're about in the daytimes, pecking up loose wheat from under the feeders and flocking up in a group of over 100 on the adjacent meadow.  However, they're obviously roosting elsewhere because I've taken the gun up a couple of times in the late afternoon and just seen the odd loner swoop over.

Obviously, I drove us there again on Saturday hoping things might be different!  We trundled down the track, and as the car emerged out of the side of the wood, sure enough there were dozens of pigeons, down on the meadow right next to the wood.  These few acres have been put in as a bit of an experiment for the sheep; plenty of grass augmented with a mixture of things like plantain, chicory and clover.  I think the latter must be starting to grow some new, fresh shoots because they have been on it quite hard the last week or so.  The birds fled away from us, over the game cover up the hill and then out of sight.  I was hoping they'd gather some confidence and come back in, so I tucked the car up a riding and we jumped out to set up an ambush.

20 minutes later, zero shots fired, back in the car 🙄

It was getting towards the time where we should be somewhere worth being, so out of the two possibilities I could think of we went to where I thought was the best chance.  I drove us along to the wood which featured in a couple of my reports last year, where there's a line of huge Leylandii trees that act as a magnet, bringing the pigeons in on a reasonably consistent line.  Here, the two of us can spread out a little and cover what was likely going to be more of a random arrival than a line in, considering the wind speed wouldn't outpace a three-legged tortoise.

Our visit on Saturday was the first time this wood has been shot this year.  Handily, Matt remembered a lesson we learned from shooting here last year: Coming into the wood along the track, you arrive at the corner of the release pen.  Where you want to be is beyond the diagonally opposite corner, so one day I drove around it to save time.  If we'd have walked, we could have had some tremendous sport as all the sitting pigeons in the wood started madly diving off their perches and swirling back and forth as if their SatNav was having a bad day.

Duly reminded, I parked up and we got ourselves sorted.  We each walked around opposite sides of the pen, with a plan to end up at the hide I built a few years ago in a pretty decent spot which is usually on the downwind side of the conifers.  Initial signs however weren't all that promising - we hardly put any birds out of the trees with our pincer movement, which was disappointing.  Not perturbed, we carried on the final 100yds or so to the favoured spot.  Aha! That's where they were hiding.

There followed a mad 10 minutes, as we disturbed dozens pigeons all spread out across the top edge of the wood beyond the line of conifers, each tree-full lifting up in a cascade away from us.  Some took the sensible option of flying away from us straight out of the wood, but plenty decided to swirl around in a confused muddle, darting this way and that, presenting us with a plentiful amount of opportunities.  Our shots seemed to stir a few more up every time, and we both downed a couple to get ourselves off the mark.  As is quite normal, once the birds we'd disturbed finally decided to head off somewhere else for a bit of peace and quiet, a lull set in.

Matt's cocker is a great little hunter but is very prone to attacks of "spaniel brain" as I call it.  She was playing him up something rotten this day, probably because it was her first roost shooting session of the year so she was maybe a bit overexcited - refusing to come back and preferring to hunt hard out in front of him.  Not the best recipe for roost shooting.  At this point I realised I was suffering the same problem with my two, as I failed to keep them sat by me.  The young cocker I can forgive; not quite 2 yet, she's got bags of energy and is still learning, but the old springer was equally as resistant to coming in to heel and sitting patiently.  It was at this point I reached for the leads hanging around my neck, only to realise that they weren't hanging around my neck.  I'd left them in the car, several hundred yards away!  With the action having died off, I emptied the gun and swiftly issued a short, sharp rebuke to the pair of them, pulling them in to my spot and telling them to stay.  The pigeons started to come back in, and after several shots all three of the darned creatures got themselves into a frenzy of hunting, ignoring all commands to pack it in and come here.

I'd had enough and decided it better to lose 10 minutes shooting than my own sanity trying to persevere with dogs that wouldn't sit steady.  I walked back to get my leads.  I don't know what Matt's excuse was, he had his lead in his pocket all along!

Neither of us had actually reached the hide at this point, having stopped at a spot where the birds were darting through a little gap in the Leylandii trees.  When I got back with my dog leads, Matt was apparently comfy in his spot so I jumped behind the hide.  Well, what was left of it, anyway.  I built this a little hastily several years ago, as a double hide (more of a blind, really, as you've got the conifers to your back for cover and backdrop).  Half of it is actually a living tree, a small self-set child of the huge Leylandii, I just chopped it about a little and extended it to the left.  The left has collapsed and needs rebuilding but luckily most of the birds come in from the right here so it was still useable.

I had put one box of each type of cartridge in my pockets - plenty to see out an average roost shooting session.  I started off with the 29g no.6 Superfast Pigeon.  In the initial mad flurry of action I had taken a fair few shots but only downed a couple; I'd pulled on a few I should have just left, fluffed my mount a couple of times and shot over the top (although I've been practising and have improved my mount dramatically).  Still, the ones that connected seemed to hit OK.  Now, with the dogs tethered down, having mentally regrouped I was a bit more settled and started to pick my shots better.  Getting used to the new cartridges, I experimented a little with less or more lead and seemed to find a rough mental image of how much to put on the bird.  I still needed a second barrel on a few, but I felt like I was making progress.  Then to my shock I found I'd used up my 25th of the box and so swapped to the 27g 7.5s.  I'd meant to shoot them on rotation to compare, but got carried away.

I'm not sure if it was just me getting in to the swing of things in the latter half of the session, or if there was a genuine difference in the cartridge performance, but I seemed to hit more and connect better with the 7.5s.  I was curious as to whether they'd have enough punch, but sticking to sensible ranges no more than about 25-30yds I started to connect really well with the birds, dropping them with a satisfying thump over my shoulder.

Keen to test out the hitting power of both types shells, when the opportunity came I experimented with a few longer shots, fast crossers which were quite difficult due to the trees in front, and only just wounded one pigeon that glided out to the edge of the wood (retrieved later).  I had a poke at a high crow which I'd have probably missed with anything as I'm rubbish on crows!  With the 7.5s I also took a pop at a sitter probably 40yds away, which left the wood apparently unscathed - not a common occurrence with 30g of no.6.  So I'm beginning to get a picture of the advantages and limitations of a light load of small shot.

Matt is yet to fully understand the art of concealment and stillness when shooting pigeons.  I try to offer a few tips here and there but don't want to come across as a "one of them", if you know what I mean.  I did have to share some advice when I noticed every pigeon coming in was flaring off at around 50yds.  I looked to the left and Matt had broken cover, standing out in the open.  As sure as day follows night, every time he lifted his gun up, away the birds turned!

He moved to the other side of me after a while, where he found it a bit easier to tuck away behind a little cover.  That way round though, most of the birds were coming past him to get to me, so there were a lot didn't make it to me as they jinked away from Matt's gun.  I did manage to wipe his eye on more than one occasion though, which I let him know about!

And then my pockets were empty.  I'd shot my way through 50 cartridges!  It was only 5 minutes until sunset though, so I think that was just about spot on.

The dogs' long-awaited bonkers time had arrived so they were released from their tethers.  I'd got birds down in several directions, two of them a fair way out towards the edge of the wood, so we had a real good sweep around.  My old springer is a dab hand in this situation - her legs might be almost 13 years old but her nose is as sharp as ever.  The young cocker is proving somewhat slow on the retrieval side of things - she'll hunt them down and find them with no bother, she'll pick them up brilliantly across the back, but then she'll take them off over there somewhere and play with them!  Lots of dummy work for her this off season, I think!

You know you've had a decent session when you lose count of what you've shot, so we were pleased when we counted up 20 pigeons, 15 of which fell to my gun.  By his own admission, Matt hadn't had a great session.  His dog really got to him, playing up, it whines and whistles when tied down as well and I think he just didn't get in the zone that day.  I know he's still got some learning to do, a lot of it being shot selection - he was at around 6:1 economy whereas I was quite pleased with around 3.3:1 testing out new cartridges, especially as I'd been deliberately trigger-happy seeing what they could do.

Luckily I'd put some twines from my braces of pheasant in my trouser pocket before coming out, which made carrying the bag a lot easier!  We arrived back at the car with 19 pigeons which the eagle-eyed amongst you will notice from the photo - one must have slipped out of its noose on the walk back and I didn't realise!

The windiest day this coming week is Friday, according to the forecast, so I might pop back there for another cheeky session if I can get my brownie points saved up!

 

[Spr1985]

A fantastic write up 👏🏻, really enjoyed reading that. 

[marsh man]

A write up worthy of P W gold medal standard , Well done Jim and THANKS for taking the time to tell us about your sporting afternoon .

I have used both of the cartridges you mentioned and both are well up for the job , I am now well past the stage of blaming the shells and  know it is me performing below par rather the cartridges .

I hope your shooting is getting back to how you once knew it     MM

[pigeon controller]

Well done for an honest report of a roost session. Both myself and BB are advocates of lighter loads and small shot yet I still shoot 32gram  4 and 5  under certain conditions. I’m yet to find a field worth shooting this year, BB has seen large flocks but they do not commit to decoys or are on fields that are difficult to shoot and not safe. On a recent investigation on some felled trees the dreaded buds we’re starting to break.

[Old Boggy]

A great write up Jim and many thanks for sharing.

OB

[Wilts#Dave]

Lovely write up! I must admit the shooting you described is top of my list in terms of pigeon shooting…..can’t beat shooting 15/20 pigeons coming over a wood. 
Personally not found the smaller shot clay loads 7.5’s overly great but I know plenty love them and I only shoot 1/4 and 1/2 so maybe more choke would be better (I’ve not persevered with them either)! 
Those hull superfast pigeon 29g 6’s on the other hand, I shot 30 flighting pigeons with just after Christmas and they were pulling down some absolutely stonking birds stone dead….one of my favourite loads for pigeons 👍🏼

Hope you have another session there, the right weather certainly makes a difference so on the right night I’ll bet you need to take an extra box! 

[Jim Neal]

On 15/02/2023 at 09:46, marsh man said:

A write up worthy of P W gold medal standard , Well done Jim and THANKS for taking the time to tell us about your sporting afternoon .

I have used both of the cartridges you mentioned and both are well up for the job , I am now well past the stage of blaming the shells and  know it is me performing below par rather the cartridges .

I hope your shooting is getting back to how you once knew it     MM

Kind words, thank you.  Yes I hope I've solved my problem, but I still can't help wondering why two different mainstream cartridge loads would perform so poorly for me, they must sell truckloads of them to folk who get on well with them.  An absolute head-scratcher.

On 15/02/2023 at 10:12, pigeon controller said:

Well done for an honest report of a roost session. Both myself and BB are advocates of lighter loads and small shot yet I still shoot 32gram  4 and 5  under certain conditions. I’m yet to find a field worth shooting this year, BB has seen large flocks but they do not commit to decoys or are on fields that are difficult to shoot and not safe. On a recent investigation on some felled trees the dreaded buds we’re starting to break.

Just out of interest what would be the sort of situation where you'd go for the heavier shot?

On 15/02/2023 at 12:53, Wilts#Dave said:

Lovely write up! I must admit the shooting you described is top of my list in terms of pigeon shooting…..can’t beat shooting 15/20 pigeons coming over a wood. 
Personally not found the smaller shot clay loads 7.5’s overly great but I know plenty love them and I only shoot 1/4 and 1/2 so maybe more choke would be better (I’ve not persevered with them either)! 
Those hull superfast pigeon 29g 6’s on the other hand, I shot 30 flighting pigeons with just after Christmas and they were pulling down some absolutely stonking birds stone dead….one of my favourite loads for pigeons 👍🏼

Hope you have another session there, the right weather certainly makes a difference so on the right night I’ll bet you need to take an extra box! 

Absolutely, I think I get more adrenaline running from a couple of hours "red letter day" roosting pigeons than a whole game season. 

I was using my 1/2 and 3/4 chokes, so most killed with the 1/2 choke barrel and they seemed to be hitting well when I got it right.  I'd guess you'd have to persevere if it didn't drop into place immediately, probably would be helped by a decoying session with some nice easy ones to get your eye in and then take it from there?

Yes it seemed like the superfast pigeons were hitting well when I was aiming well, I think I just didn't settle in to the session so quickly and the box was all gone!

Might be going back there with another mate tomorrow afternoon but unfortunately the strong forecast wind looks like it will now die off shortly after lunchtime 😞

[Stonepark]

Good write up and we'll worth the read.

 

I believe using the optimum balance for any loading or quarry between penetration and pattern and ideally both should fail at the same distance.

Going from 287 pellets in 29g no6 to 356 pellets in 27g no7.5 results in an increase in hits from an average of roughly 3 pellets to an average of just under 4 pellets which may not sound a lot, but makes a significant difference to number of clean kills, over those wounded and chimes with your thoughts on performance.

Your 2 carts, 29g no6 (2.6mm) and 27g 7.5 (2.3mm} both have their own strengths (penetration & pattern respectively), however once you get through those slabs, trying a no7 (continental 7.5) (2.4mm) 28g (350 pellets) may more closely balance both strengths so that penetration and pattern both roughly fail at 45 yards or so.

[pigeon controller]

With respect to heavy loads, it’s a personal thing but if I’m roost shooting I will use them also in winter with more plumage. It’s a quirk of mine that I will always carry them in the Disco and if I’m hitting birds and not dropping  them I will change as I believe they impart more energy.

[old'un]

If you are out shooting today you may need the extra weight in the 6 shot and your hide well anchored down, its a bit windy.