henry d Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 7 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said: Hello, the only nationals I can see fleeing war are Ukrainians... Yemen, Ethiopia, Somalia, Syria? Do you really not know about these conflicts? Then there is the oppressive regimes such as Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq etc So if we had the same regimes here a good few people on here would have disappeared or been arrested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 6 minutes ago, henry d said: Yemen, Ethiopia, Somalia, Syria? Do you really not know about these conflicts? Then there is the oppressive regimes such as Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq etc So if we had the same regimes here a good few people on here would have disappeared or been arrested. France isn’t at war with anyone ( yet ) as far as I’m aware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 4 minutes ago, henry d said: Yemen, Ethiopia, Somalia, Syria? Do you really not know about these conflicts? Then there is the oppressive regimes such as Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq etc So if we had the same regimes here a good few people on here would have disappeared or been arrested. Yes but the ones we get are fleeing France 🇫🇷. Terrible country, people hate it so much they are willing to risk their lives in small boats to get away from it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discobob Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 People got @henry dstatement wrong. He was responding to the statement about UK residents need help when he asked are they fleeing war or persecution Well, some are - specifically former members of forces that are living on the streets, sufferers of PTSD and have fallen trough the cracks. There is also a lot wrong in this country, the highest taxed I believe in the western world, which is causing more and more people into extreme conditions with more yet to come. But you think that we should take more and more in. You have a view of life that you think is very progressive it is in fact actually very blinkered. I want to help people, but now there is nothing left to help them. Meanwhile, we, the public are being used as a money tree by our very own politicians so they can virtue signal on the world stage and keep them coming. This is breaking our society more than any other time in our history and I am starting to believe that we are at war - it just hasn't been declared formily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 20 minutes ago, Vince Green said: Yes but the ones we get are fleeing France 🇫🇷. Terrible country, people hate it so much they are willing to risk their lives in small boats to get away from it 20 minutes ago, Scully said: France isn’t at war with anyone ( yet ) as far as I’m aware. Asylum seekers don't have to stop at the first safe country, otherwise the Ukrainian asylum seekers would be in Poland. Same goes for Turkey being flooded by Syrian, Iraqi etc refugees. https://www.refugee-action.org.uk/about/facts-about-refugees/#:~:text=Do people have to claim,UK if they reach it. https://fullfact.org/immigration/refugees-first-safe-country/ https://www.amnesty.org.uk/truth-about-refugees You know this but refuse to accept it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 Just now, henry d said: Asylum seekers don't have to stop at the first safe country, otherwise the Ukrainian asylum seekers would be in Poland. Same goes for Turkey being flooded by Syrian, Iraqi etc refugees. https://www.refugee-action.org.uk/about/facts-about-refugees/#:~:text=Do people have to claim,UK if they reach it. https://fullfact.org/immigration/refugees-first-safe-country/ https://www.amnesty.org.uk/truth-about-refugees You know this but refuse to accept it I do know this, and I don’t refuse to accept it, I just want to know what the attraction is to England, given that it is a well held belief we’re all ( including the Met’ Police ) rabid racists! I’m just baffled as to why a family with small children, after fleeing persecution or war to a country which isn’t at war, and thereby are no longer fleeing persecution or war, then risks everything by putting those small children into an unsuitable craft to cross one of the busiest sea channels in the world? 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) 47 minutes ago, henry d said: Asylum seekers don't have to stop at the first safe country, otherwise the Ukrainian asylum seekers would be in Poland. Same goes for Turkey being flooded by Syrian, Iraqi etc refugees. https://www.refugee-action.org.uk/about/facts-about-refugees/#:~:text=Do people have to claim,UK if they reach it. https://fullfact.org/immigration/refugees-first-safe-country/ https://www.amnesty.org.uk/truth-about-refugees You know this but refuse to accept it We accept what you say but when this country considers an application for asylum it should be hard for the claimant to make a valid case if they have been living safely on main land Europe for some considerable time but did not make a claim there Edited February 20, 2023 by Vince Green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 hour ago, henry d said: Asylum seekers don't have to stop at the first safe country, otherwise the Ukrainian asylum seekers would be in Poland. Same goes for Turkey being flooded by Syrian, Iraqi etc refugees Your interpretation is as usual ,flawed and deliberately skewed. The Ukrainians were involved in a refugee deal, and were directly invited to the UK and other countries, including Poland. For Syria and Iraq, Turkey had no choice , due to weight of numbers and family ties, they are being paid by the EU etc to house refugees in squalid camps , while Turkey has built a fence to keep more out. Israel takes none, despite being closer than Turkey in many cases. Refugees must register their status in the first safe country they arrive in, they don't have to claim asylum , but when they do , and they're claim is rejected , they CAN be sent back to the country they first registered in, this why the safe country rarely bothers with the registration process , and just waves them through. From your Fullfact link... It doesn’t matter that these individuals are illegally crossing the channel Ms Evans describes those seeking to cross the Channel to the UK in small boats as “illegal migrants”. Although it’s certainly true that crossing the Channel without authorisation isn’t a legal way to enter the UK, Article 31 of the UN Refugee Convention states that refugees cannot be penalised for entering the country illegally to claim asylum if they are “coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened” provided they “present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence”. A lot depends here on how to interpret which country people are “coming directly from”. It could be argued, for instance, that as the people crossing the channel are coming directly from France—which is not the country they initially fled—they don’t have the right to claim asylum in the UK. However, in 1999 a UK judge ruled that “some element of choice is indeed open to refugees as to where they may properly claim asylum.” The judge specified that “any merely short term stopover en route” to another country should not forfeit the individual’s right to claim refugee status elsewhere. This means people can legitimately make a claim for asylum in the UK after passing through other “safe” countries. Once in the UK it is then up to the authorities to review that application. While Ms Evans’ claim focused on the Geneva Convention however, as the House of Commons Library says: “Existing UK asylum laws give some scope to refuse to consider an application if it is judged that the person could have claimed asylum elsewhere.” This law means that an application could be found to be ‘inadmissible’ if, for example, another country is considered to be a ‘safe third country’ or another EU member state has already granted the person refugee status. Ms Evans also says “no one needs refuge from France”. However, it cannot be stated with certainty that these individuals crossing the Channel were safe in France (or any other country) unless we know more about their backgrounds. For example, the European Court of Human Rights has previously found an EU country (Greece) to pose a risk to an Afghan refugee, therefore upholding the refugee’s right to seek asylum elsewhere (Belgium). There is also previous evidence of asylum seekers and migrants in France not being treated as they should be according to French law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 2 hours ago, Scully said: I do know this, and I don’t refuse to accept it, I just want to know what the attraction is to England, given that it is a well held belief we’re all ( including the Met’ Police ) rabid racists! I’m just baffled as to why a family with small children, after fleeing persecution or war to a country which isn’t at war, and thereby are no longer fleeing persecution or war, then risks everything by putting those small children into an unsuitable craft to cross one of the busiest sea channels in the world? 🤔 That's also been repeated time and again, most want to be in a country that they have family and friends in, or they speak the language and feel that they will be able to communicate and integrate better. Surely people can use an Internet search engine and find these things out for themselves? 1 hour ago, Vince Green said: We accept what you say but when this country considers an application for asylum it should be hard for the claimant to make a valid case if they have been living safely on main land Europe for some considerable time but did not make a claim there See above. 2 hours ago, discobob said: But you think that we should take more and more in. Please indicate the posts where I say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robden Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 If we just started to send them back, others may get the idea and not waste their money trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discobob Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 5 minutes ago, henry d said: 2 hours ago, discobob said: But you think that we should take more and more in. Please indicate the posts where I say that. Show me the post where you didn't say that albeit implied/ your very statement says that immigrants fleeing war and persecution trump our own people.. therefore you are all for free unfettered immigration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 8 minutes ago, henry d said: That's also been repeated time and again, most want to be in a country that they have family and friends in, or they speak the language and feel that they will be able to communicate and integrate better. Rubbish argument, so if I have family and friends somewhere in a better country, I can choose to illegally enter that country and live there for free? This is what we are really talking about here, holiday brochure style immigration, using fraudulent means to gain access to a countries social state. Simple question, would they come here if they were offered no social care benefits at all, and never would? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) 32 minutes ago, henry d said: That's also been repeated time and again, most want to be in a country that they have family and friends in, or they speak the language Want? Where does what they want come into the equation? This is not pick and choose. Anyway, we all know why they really want to come here Edited February 20, 2023 by Vince Green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rem260 Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 12 hours ago, Krico woodcock said: How is this ironic?? Have a good think about it.. Complaining about immigration when you have been one of the most prolific nations for migration. That in my opinion is ironic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 hour ago, henry d said: That's also been repeated time and again, most want to be in a country that they have family and friends in, or they speak the language and feel that they will be able to communicate and integrate better. wanting to-be in an area of a country where their own kind/family are? Integration is a bit contradictory then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 hour ago, discobob said: your very statement says that immigrants fleeing war and persecution trump our own people 1 hour ago, discobob said: Show me the post where you didn't say that albeit implied/ Nope, you accused me, you prove it. Re. Top paragraph; again I did not say that nor imply it. You brought up ex service personnel and PTSD. 32 minutes ago, old'un said: wanting to-be in an area of a country where their own kind/family are? Integration is a bit contradictory then. No. 1 hour ago, Vince Green said: Want? Where does what they want come into the equation How about, wanting peace, or not wanting persecution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discobob Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) @henry dNo - your history speaks for itself. When someone mentioned we have UK Residents that needed help you questioned if the UK Residents are fleeing war or persecution. That implies that you believe that external people trump our own people and our own should be ignored... Edited February 20, 2023 by discobob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, discobob said: @henry dNo - your history speaks for itself. When someone mentioned we have UK Residents that needed help you questioned if the UK Residents are fleeing war or persecution. That implies that you believe that external people trump our own people and our own should be ignored... It implies nothing of the sort, it is asking for things to be examined on a similar basis. UK residents that need help have a variety of options open to them depending on their situation, someone fleeing war or persecution has one... to GTFO now! They can't go to citizens advice, they can't write to their council or MP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discobob Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 38 minutes ago, henry d said: It implies nothing of the sort, it is asking for things to be examined on a similar basis. UK residents that need help have a variety of options open to them depending on their situation, someone fleeing war or persecution has one... to GTFO now! They can't go to citizens advice, they can't write to their council or MP. It didn't come across like that. And you know that all immigrants are fleeing war and persecution?? Immigrants have more options open to them than we do - they can decide where they want to go but we can't decide that we don't want them. They have UK funded charities supporting them (or should that be enabling), they get hotels, money to live on, dental, health etc... There is an option that they do have as well - to stay and fight for their country.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 55 minutes ago, henry d said: It implies nothing of the sort, it is asking for things to be examined on a similar basis. UK residents that need help have a variety of options open to them depending on their situation, someone fleeing war or persecution has one... to GTFO now! They can't go to citizens advice, they can't write to their council or MP. Theyre prepared to how is it ? GTFO now, and then travel several thousand miles through several more 'war torn' countries to get to there selected destinations. When there are other , perfectly safe African countries , often right next door to them. The only problem is , they might have to work for a living there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 41 minutes ago, discobob said: And you know that all immigrants are fleeing war and persecution?? There you go again! Where did I say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weihrauch17 Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11758613/Fury-NHS-lays-12MILLION-contract-illegal-immigrants-access-GP-dental.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 29 minutes ago, Weihrauch17 said: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11758613/Fury-NHS-lays-12MILLION-contract-illegal-immigrants-access-GP-dental.html Nice , I cant even get seen by an NHS dentist in my area, and dont get me started about my GP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 Just now, Rewulf said: Nice , I cant even get seen by an NHS dentist in my area, and dont get me started about my GP. Me neither. I had to go private after we lost all our NHS dentists in my home town; wonder if I should try again now that we have a fair intake of immigrants? 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 57 minutes ago, Scully said: Me neither. I had to go private after we lost all our NHS dentists in my home town; wonder if I should try again now that we have a fair intake of immigrants? 🙂 Just tell them you identify as a migrant , seems to work in other areas, prisons ect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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