Do you trust BASC

[BlaserF3]

24 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Nice to see some positive and constructive comments in the thread - hopefully that will encourage more PW members to speak out against the misinformation broadcasted by a vocal minority.

Now that we are back on lead again I think the following facts need repeating:

• Nine organisations are encouraging a voluntary transition away from lead shot for live quarry shooting.
• BASC supports the voluntary transition and is fighting the Health and Safety Executive lead ban proposals. 

The organisations might be encourging a voluntary transition from lead, but do the people who shoot lead projectiles at their quarry, want to shoot something else which is not as efficient as lead and is probably more expensive?

[Conor O'Gorman]

It is a voluntary transition and people are making the change. If you would like to join a BASC event to find out more and try out alternatives and talk to BASC staff and ammo reps have a look here for 'sustainable ammunition' events:

https://events.basc.org.uk/events/

The following video might be of interest more generally:

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Conor O'Gorman

[BlaserF3]

2 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

It is a voluntary transition and people are making the change. If you would like to join a BASC event to find out more and try out alternatives and talk to BASC staff and ammo reps have a look here for 'sustainable ammunition' events:

https://events.basc.org.uk/events/

The following video might be of interest more generally:

 

No thank you, I take no part in killing things for pleasure! 

[Fellside]

7 hours ago, BlaserF3 said:

TGS do more for shooting than any organisation in the U.K.

Oh I hadn’t realised TGS coach thousands of children in shooting every year, and run shoot conservation programmes…..and brief MPs on shooting matters…. etc. etc. There I was thinking TGS was just a badly presented commercial platform. Silly me. 

[Scully]

11 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Nice to see some positive and constructive comments in the thread - hopefully that will encourage more PW members to speak out against the misinformation broadcasted by a vocal minority.

Now that we are back on lead again I think the following facts need repeating:

• Nine organisations are encouraging a voluntary transition away from lead shot for live quarry shooting.
• BASC supports the voluntary transition and is fighting the Health and Safety Executive lead ban proposals. 

Right, let me get this straight. 
It has been established that our shooting organisations have instigated a voluntary lead shot phase out to protect game shooting, but this ban doesn’t just effect game shooters, it effects all who shoot live quarry, and all those who don’t, so in effect everyone who shoots. 
This ban is not up for negotiation, it’s a given; it’s going to happen. Correct so far?

Now if this is going to happen, how do I phase out my .22rf shooting using non toxic .22 rf ammunition? 
Given that there is no suitable/effective alternative, what do I do? If I stop using my .22rf I will lose it; it I’m not buying the ammunition then I’ve lost my ‘good reason’ to possess. 
You say you want everyone to help BASC fight the HSE lead shot proposals, but now it’s been established it’s going to happen anyway, and less than 1% of your membership cares, what EXACTLY is it you expect shooters ( or anyone ) to do? 

[merseamal]

9 minutes ago, Scully said:

Right, let me get this straight. 
It has been established that our shooting organisations have instigated a voluntary lead shot phase out to protect game shooting, but this ban doesn’t just effect game shooters, it effects all who shoot live quarry, and all those who don’t, so in effect everyone who shoots. 
This ban is not up for negotiation, it’s a given; it’s going to happen. Correct so far?

Now if this is going to happen, how do I phase out my .22rf shooting using non toxic .22 rf ammunition? 
Given that there is no suitable/effective alternative, what do I do? If I stop using my .22rf I will lose it; it I’m not buying the ammunition then I’ve lost my ‘good reason’ to possess. 
You say you want everyone to help BASC fight the HSE lead shot proposals, but now it’s been established it’s going to happen anyway, and less than 1% of your membership cares, what EXACTLY is it you expect shooters ( or anyone ) to do? 

Have you read or listened to anything from BASC? They are fighting your exact point.

a voluntary transition for live quarry using shot, not bullets, not for targets either rifle or clays and not for any calibre that is unsuitable I.e anything under 6.5mm or any air gun.

we already have suitable steel shot on the shelf for live quarry, go up one shot size and jobs a goodun 

the HSE ban was happening, it would have already been here if the 9 organisations hadn’t stepped in and not just for live quarry for everything, so all air guns, .177, .22 would all be redundant 

[Ferretlurcher1970]

Basc started the move to lead. For years I told people just look at the basc magazine,we are being primed by basc to be sold down the river t giving up lead. Suddenly basc are leading the fight against it! Maybe be careful what you wish for and think it through. The man on the street doesn't give a toss what cartridges we use , we kill animals. End of.

[Scully]

40 minutes ago, merseamal said:

Have you read or listened to anything from BASC? They are fighting your exact point.

a voluntary transition for live quarry using shot, not bullets, not for targets either rifle or clays and not for any calibre that is unsuitable I.e anything under 6.5mm or any air gun.

we already have suitable steel shot on the shelf for live quarry, go up one shot size and jobs a goodun 

the HSE ban was happening, it would have already been here if the 9 organisations hadn’t stepped in and not just for live quarry for everything, so all air guns, .177, .22 would all be redundant 

Unless I’ve missed something, I’ve read it all thanks. I even responded to the HSE consultation…..unlike over 99% of BASC members! 😂

All air guns ARE redundant, as are .17 and .22rf and .410. How can we ‘phase them out’ if there’s no alternative? Phase them out by using what as an alternative? The only alternative is to stop using them. 
I’ll get back to you once I’ve heard from Conor. 
 

[BlaserF3]

8 hours ago, Fellside said:

Oh I hadn’t realised TGS coach thousands of children in shooting every year, and run shoot conservation programmes…..and brief MPs on shooting matters…. etc. etc. There I was thinking TGS was just a badly presented commercial platform. Silly me. 

BASC recently had a young shots day near to me about controlling grey squirrels. They were shooting air rifles with guess what?

LEAD FREE pellets, welcome to the future.

[BlaserF3]

8 hours ago, Fellside said:

Oh I hadn’t realised TGS coach thousands of children in shooting every year, and run shoot conservation programmes…..and brief MPs on shooting matters…. etc. etc. There I was thinking TGS was just a badly presented commercial platform. Silly me. 

What's the point about coaching anyone when the change to shooting is going to finish it.

Small bore rifle/pistol, air rifle and pistol clubs using lead free pellets. .22 rimfire for pest shooting.

All gone, with no good reason.

[Fellside]

28 minutes ago, BlaserF3 said:

What's the point about coaching anyone when the change to shooting is going to finish it.

Small bore rifle/pistol, air rifle and pistol clubs using lead free pellets. .22 rimfire for pest shooting.

All gone, with no good reason.

Yes the world is going to end.

Perhaps your hero at TGS will save it….😆

[Fellside]

37 minutes ago, BlaserF3 said:

BASC recently had a young shots day near to me about controlling grey squirrels. They were shooting air rifles with guess what?

LEAD FREE pellets, welcome to the future.

Shocking behaviour! I trust the TGS equivalent course used lead….?!

[Genghis]

9 hours ago, Fellside said:

Oh I hadn’t realised TGS coach thousands of children in shooting every year, and run shoot conservation programmes…..and brief MPs on shooting matters…. etc. etc. There I was thinking TGS was just a badly presented commercial platform. Silly me. 

What did Jonny do to you? Sounds like you have an axe to grind.

 

I’m a member of BASC. Very happy with the work that they do. I’m also a fan of TGS videos and think that Jonny does a great job of encouraging the younger generation into shooting.

[Fellside]

1 minute ago, Genghis said:

What did Jonny do to you? Sounds like you have an axe to grind.

 

I’m a member of BASC. Very happy with the work that they do. I’m also a fan of TGS videos and think that Jonny does a great job of encouraging the younger generation into shooting.

Hi Genghis,

This Johny person has done nothing whatsoever to annoy me. However a TGS worshiper stating for the record that TGS do more “than any other organisation in the UK” is obviously absurd - and deserves some stick I’m afraid. 

As an aside, I find the TGS presenter to be very likeable enthusiastic chap. However…… his presentations are a little chaotic and often contradictory at times, sometimes lacking in key facts also - hence my observation. No axe to grind though. I wish him the best of luck with his endeavours. 
 

[BlaserF3]

8 minutes ago, Fellside said:

Hi Genghis,

This Johny person has done nothing whatsoever to annoy me. However a TGS worshiper stating for the record that TGS do more “than any other organisation in the UK” is obviously absurd - and deserves some stick I’m afraid. 

As an aside, I find the TGS presenter to be very likeable enthusiastic chap. However…… his presentations are a little chaotic and often contradictory at times, sometimes lacking in key facts also - hence my observation. No axe to grind though. I wish him the best of luck with his endeavours. 
 

Give me as much "stick" as you want 😂

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by BlaserF3
addition

[Fellside]

18 minutes ago, BlaserF3 said:

Give me as much "stick" as you want 😂

 

Only when you make a fool of yourself. 

[Rewulf]

An interesting comparison, now that we are talking about promotion of field sports in social media.

TGS, 120,000 subscribers to their Youtube channel.

Fieldsports channel, 337,000 subscribers.

Even English shooting have some 40,000

BASC with their purpose built media centre ? 26,000 

With all that money , membership and err 'voice' , why is this ?

 

 

[wymberley]

6 hours ago, merseamal said:

Have you read or listened to anything from BASC? They are fighting your exact point.

a voluntary transition for live quarry using shot, not bullets, not for targets either rifle or clays and not for any calibre that is unsuitable I.e anything under 6.5mm or any air gun.

we already have suitable steel shot on the shelf for live quarry, go up one shot size and jobs a goodun 

the HSE ban was happening, it would have already been here if the 9 organisations hadn’t stepped in and not just for live quarry for everything, so all air guns, .177, .22 would all be redundant 

I know full well that steel works - just not as efficiently as lead. I also know that within 'five minutes or so' of being introduced its shot size was amended to reflect that it was one size larger. So, there's the one size up which means there's no need to go up a further two then. Although pretty good, I also know that these further two sizes up because of 'energy density' do not even then fully equate to lead.

This whole situation reminds me of one of our oldest town centre pubs. Back along to access the town via the current route would have required a boat. THE FIRST (heading in) but also as detailed for Non Toxic Shot was that it had to be,

Safe to use

Effective

Affordable

Non toxic

AND LAST (heading out) All of these criteria have yet to be met

[Genghis]

16 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

An interesting comparison, now that we are talking about promotion of field sports in social media.

TGS, 120,000 subscribers to their Youtube channel.

Fieldsports channel, 337,000 subscribers.

Even English shooting have some 40,000

BASC with their purpose built media centre ? 26,000 

With all that money , membership and err 'voice' , why is this ?

 

 

With respect, TGS are exclusively a YouTube channel. TGS do have a website but I would strongly suspect that the BASC website sees much more traffic.

 

I know this isn’t the point that you’re making, but subscriber counts also mean little if most of your subscribers are inactive. Despite having 3x the number of subscribers compared to TGS, Fieldsports average 10k views per video in the month of February. TGS averaged 58k views in the same time period.

 

[Rewulf]

4 minutes ago, Genghis said:

Fieldsports average 10k views per video in the month of February. TGS averaged 58k views in the same time period.

Mmm , I would say that it depends on the content , but hey ho.
This video came out 7 hours ago , and already has 6000 views https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtC-lES94pk

This one came out 2 years ago , and has 270,000 views https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXHvHOnCDrA&t=3s

Some BASC content has been out 5 x longer , but I dont believe BASC has any videos , except one , strangely enough , about airgunning , that approach that figure.
Its ironic , that the section of shooting that brings most interest, due to accessibility , is the one that will suffer most from a lead ban ?

 

 

 

[Fellside]

22 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

An interesting comparison, now that we are talking about promotion of field sports in social media.

TGS, 120,000 subscribers to their Youtube channel.

Fieldsports channel, 337,000 subscribers.

Even English shooting have some 40,000

BASC with their purpose built media centre ? 26,000 

With all that money , membership and err 'voice' , why is this ?

 

 

Good point. Your BASC figures may be off kilter though - they have 150,000 members (last count). All the other org’s I don’t know…. ? Accumulatively: a hell of a lot. 

The key difference however, as Gengis alluded to, is that the channels and youtubers are commercial platforms. BASC and others are social cooperatives and actively protect/promote field sports. 
I think we’re comparing apples and oranges. 
 

[Scully]

18 minutes ago, Fellside said:

Good point. Your BASC figures may be off kilter though - they have 150,000 members (last count). All the other org’s I don’t know…. ? Accumulatively: a hell of a lot. 

The key difference however, as Gengis alluded to, is that the channels and youtubers are commercial platforms. BASC and others are social cooperatives and actively protect/promote field sports. 
I think we’re comparing apples and oranges. 
 

Ah but, less than 1500 of those 150,000 members are actually active ! 

Sorry, couldn’t resist! 🙂

[Rewulf]

22 minutes ago, Fellside said:

The key difference however, as Gengis alluded to, is that the channels and youtubers are commercial platforms. BASC and others are social cooperatives and actively protect/promote field sports. 
I think we’re comparing apples and oranges. 

Again we can agree to disagree, but is BASC not a commercial platform ?
It certainly behaves like one, with the advertising in its magazine, and charging users for its training programs, selling shooting insurance ?
Its a registered limited company, and in my view promotes field sports , particularly game shooting, as its primary focus ?

6 minutes ago, Scully said:

Ah but, less than 1500 of those 150,000 members are actually active ! 

Sorry, couldn’t resist! 🙂

You could also say that BASCs Youtube subscribers could , like the others , be inactive ?
Anyone is free to trawl Youtube and compare the footfall in views between the ones Ive mentioned , and check the veracity of my observations.
BASCs presence on that particular platform , despite its size and the level of manpower it has at its disposal , is peculiarly low.

[Fellside]

21 minutes ago, Scully said:

Ah but, less than 1500 of those 150,000 members are actually active ! 

Sorry, couldn’t resist! 🙂

I have no idea how many Scully. I suppose at the end of the day they are cash donators who support ‘active’ efforts by BASC. My guess (and it’s only a guess) is that people who support any of the shooting org’s are likely to be more actively engaged than those who consume vast hours of streamed content.  We live in interesting times do we not…? 

25 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Again we can agree to disagree, but is BASC not a commercial platform ?
It certainly behaves like one, with the advertising in its magazine, and charging users for its training programs, selling shooting insurance ?
Its a registered limited company, and in my view promotes field sports , particularly game shooting, as its primary focus ?

You could also say that BASCs Youtube subscribers could , like the others , be inactive ?
Anyone is free to trawl Youtube and compare the footfall in views between the ones Ive mentioned , and check the veracity of my observations.
BASCs presence on that particular platform , despite its size and the level of manpower it has at its disposal , is peculiarly low.

No not a commercial platform - definitely not. 

[Scully]

16 minutes ago, Fellside said:

I have no idea how many Scully. I suppose at the end of the day they are cash donators who support ‘active’ efforts by BASC. My guess (and it’s only a guess) is that people who support any of the shooting org’s are likely to be more actively engaged than those who consume vast hours of streamed content.  We live in interesting times do we not…? 

You would think they’d be actively engaged wouldn’t you? But apparently not!
Less than 1% of BASC members responded to the recent HSE consultation, which also means less than 1% of the members of other shooting organisations did so too! 
We certainly do live in interesting times.