Small Pistol Primers

[Keith RW]

Morning all

I have a box of 900 Winchester Small Pistol Primers that have been dry stored in the gun safe since I used to reload hand guns many years ago and which are now surplus to requirements as can't see me ever me using them.

Assuming these are still OK to use, which I am confident they are as they have been stored correctly over that time, where would be the best place to move them on.

Just about to start reloading .223 so looking for small rifle primers in their place

Edited April 22, 2023 by Keith RW

[oowee]

Are they the same size as small rifle primers? 

[Newbie to this]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

Are they the same size as small rifle primers? 

Same size, but different.

[oowee]

2 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

Same size, but different.

How? Not worth a go? 

[243deer]

5 minutes ago, oowee said:

How? Not worth a go? 

I think that rifle primers are designed to withstand higher pressures than pistol primers.

'Giving it a go' in reloading terms is not to be recommended if there is any danger of exceeding pressure limits on any component.

[oowee]

Interesting clip below and this post in the comments. 

I have been making my own primers for 8 years now i use real btw primer compound. all the stuff is easy to get. also on a side note when i say make i mean make from scratch, i bought used surplus stamp presses and made dies. all the cup material for primers is 0.015 thick across all primers. i only make 2 primers large and small for every thing. for example large pistol mag and large pistol non mag are the same height cups both at .119". where a problem can crop up is in example large pistol is .119" height and large rifle is .125 so a over all thickness difference of .006 thou. this is where cases come into play i have some where they don't work but for the most part i don't have any issues. some cases have to have the primer pocket depth cut .006 deeper so the primer is not proud of the case. a little extra time but when there done there done. i cut them with a little end mill on a drill with a home made drill stop and a jig i built.

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Edited April 22, 2023 by oowee

[Keith RW]

I used these when reloading .357 magnum rounds many years ago and at first thought they may also possibly be OK for .223,

Out of interest I need to go in the loft and dig out my old loading manual and see if I can find out what the loads and pressures were back then.

[Windswept]

Small pistol primers will be made from a thinner material than small rifle primers so your firing pin might piece them. They will also have less energy which may reduce the performance of you rifle loads and possibly mean unburnt powder. A quick google shows much the same as the above video, people use small rifle primers in pistol rounds but not the other way around.

As for moving them on, advertise one here or do you have a local range when people shoot gallery rifle / LBR at all, someone may want them. 

[Keith RW]

Interestingly found the below info on Remington primers

With Remington small rifle primers, the 6 ½ primer has a thin cup and is not recommended for higher pressure rounds like the common .223 Remington. It was intended for the .22 Hornet. When Remington introduced their .17 Remington round in 1971 they found that the 6 ½ primer was not suitable to the high-pressure .17. The 7 ½ BR primer was developed for this reason. According to Remington, the 7 ½ has a 25% greater cup thickness and they state on their web site: "In rifle cartridges, the 6-1/2 small rifle primer should not be used in the 17 Remington, 222 Remington or the 223 Remington. The 7-1/2 BR is the proper small rifle primer for these rounds."

[Newbie to this]

2 hours ago, oowee said:

How? Not worth a go? 

Small rifle primers are thicker and hotter ignition, and designed for higher pressure.

From what I have read rifle can be used in pistol (as long as the firing pin strike is strong enough), but not recommended the other way around, as has been said above, pierced primers, amongst other things are a concern.

[NoBodyImportant]

I’d use them.  But in all fairness in my reloading I’m well into messing with stuff I shouldn’t be messing with. Some of my homemade nitro cellulose has had me counting fingers before. 

At some point today I will load some up and give them ago.  I think I have some Winchester pistol primers 

[Keith RW]

3 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said:

I’d use them.  But in all fairness in my reloading I’m well into messing with stuff I shouldn’t be messing with. Some of my homemade nitro cellulose has had me counting fingers before. 

At some point today I will load some up and give them ago.  I think I have some Winchester pistol primers 

I look forward to the results, if you're not back on the forum by this time tomorrow we'll suspect that you may not have remaining digits with which to type with 🙂

Joking apart though, there are a lot of "recommendations" of what to do and what not to do regards interchanging primers and which makes some interesting reading, I've been trying to find out what the actual cup thickness is of WSP primers are, there are also differing material hardness's and some reading suggests Winchester are harder than some others so will be interesting to see how you get on.

Will you be reloading .223

[Keith RW]

Anybody seen NoBodyImportant today ?  😮

[NoBodyImportant]

11 hours ago, Keith RW said:

Anybody seen NoBodyImportant today ?  😮

I forgot!   I will run one through the press when I get home.  

[Keith RW]

5 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said:

I forgot!   I will run one through the press when I get home.  

Had us worried there for a minute 😀

[NoBodyImportant]

Went bang.  Worried me at first as it seated really easy but fired 

[oowee]

👍 Some of the primers were apparently sold for both pistol and small rifle. 

[Imperfection]

6 minutes ago, oowee said:

👍 Some of the primers were apparently sold for both pistol and small rifle. 

I have some Sellier & Bellot large primers which are labelled as suitable for pistol & rifle. 

Usually, pistol primers are softer because spring tension isn't as strong as a rifle.

[Keith RW]

On 26/04/2023 at 15:29, NoBodyImportant said:

Went bang.  Worried me at first as it seated really easy but fired 

Was that in .223, what load and head did you use

[snow white]

Could you use small piston primers in 17 hornet rifle case I know it’s say no on 223 but 17 is lot smaller.

My worry is that the ballistics are the same in 17 and 223 out to 300 yards what I am thinking is the pressure is going to be the same.

I know there is less powder in 17 so there for obviously not same pressure but would the reaction on the primer be the same.