Criminals made machine pistols for sale to other criminals, 3D printing

[GHE]

A very worrying news item, and all credit to the police for catching them https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/news-appeals/men-jailed-making-3d-printed-firearms-destined-organised-crime#:~:text=Two men have been jailed,first prosecution of its kind.

 

It's worrying I think that the technology now exists to build these things using home 3D printers. We've known about the potential of these printers for years, and there have been Glock and other semi-auto pistols for a long time too, made largely from plastic, but the fact that full-auto machine pistols can be made mainly from plastic is a new worry and a new threat to public safety.

[enfieldspares]

I saw years ago a CZ video on how they made the all metal, machined, CZ75 pistol. Even then it consisted of putting a block of metal in a clamp and then a probe came out and touched the block to get a "register" on it and then the thing was drilled, milled, machine, turned this way and that way until what was left was a fully finished frame. The days of BSA and Webley of row after row of machine each with a minder doing but one operation and then passing to the next machine have long gone. Guns today can be "bought", all bar the small parts and screws and pins and springs, merely by buying a computer CD disc or a downloadable programme.

[bottletopbill]

We will suffer the kick backs we need to start demanding facts about gun crime .

ALL SHOOTING GROUPS NEED TO FIGHT THIS TOGETHER and show the public these guns are illegal guns.

Christ sake do some thing to protect legal shooting 

[Cosmicblue]

I took an interest in 3D printers when they became a 'thing' around 15 years ago, and then moved onto other things - like shooting clays.😀

Now retired and with more free time I've gone back and taken another look - the technology has moved on tremendously as has the filament materials that one can print - if you have never looked then this is an informative list: https://all3dp.com/1/3d-printer-filament-types-3d-printing-3d-filament/

Now it seems the tech has moved on - you can design something with a CAD tool (some are free-to-use on-line) and the design is sent to a 'slicer' application that could be part of the printer's software.  The Slicer figures out how to print the object in multiple passes, creating a lattice-work supports if needed for added strength/object integrity. 

[Newbie to this]

Very worrying.

I wonder how they got hold of the ammunition.

[GHE]

1 minute ago, Newbie to this said:

Very worrying.

I wonder how they got hold of the ammunition.

According to the police website, they made it themselves. Making and using 9mm ammo must have been challenge for them, I would have thought that they could have obtained .22 rimfire ammo much more easily, and my guess is that .22 would have created less stress for their home-made guns too.

Worrying that they were organised enough to make the ammo as well as the guns, and worrying that they were able to access the materials.

[Newbie to this]

52 minutes ago, GHE said:

According to the police website, they made it themselves. Making and using 9mm ammo must have been challenge for them, I would have thought that they could have obtained .22 rimfire ammo much more easily, and my guess is that .22 would have created less stress for their home-made guns too.

Worrying that they were organised enough to make the ammo as well as the guns, and worrying that they were able to access the materials.

Yes, very worrying.

[JohnfromUK]

I know nothing about 3D printing, but find it hard to believe that you can 3D print the pressure containing parts (i.e. mainly the barrel) and also the 'hard' parts like the firing pin, sear etc.  I assume they are still made from steel, but as 'turned' or' filed' parts - are relatively easy for a reasonably skilled machinist to make?

Edited May 17, 2023 by JohnfromUK

[udderlyoffroad]

4 hours ago, GHE said:

A very worrying news item, and all credit to the police for catching them https://www.westyorkshire.police.uk/news-appeals/men-jailed-making-3d-printed-firearms-destined-organised-crime#:~:text=Two men have been jailed,first prosecution of its kind.

 

50 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Very worrying.

Eh?  Why on earth would it be 'worrying'?  In more enlightened countries amateur gunsmithing counts as a legitimate hobby.  The information is out there, freely available.  If you decide to act on it, in the UK at least, you are committing an offence.

 

44 minutes ago, GHE said:

Making and using 9mm ammo must have been challenge for them, I would have thought that they could have obtained .22 rimfire ammo much more easily, and my guess is that .22 would have created less stress for their home-made guns too.

 

2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

I know nothing about 3D printing, but find it hard to believe that you can 3D print the pressure containing part

This video might help explain those 2 questions

 

[Newbie to this]

1 minute ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Eh?  Why on earth would it be 'worrying'?  In more enlightened countries amateur gunsmithing counts as a legitimate hobby.  The information is out there, freely available.  If you decide to act on it, in the UK at least, you are committing an offence.

Eh?

You don't find it worrying that they were able to source the component parts necessary to manufacture ammunition.

[JohnfromUK]

33 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

This video might help explain those 2 questions

Thank you.

[udderlyoffroad]

45 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Eh?

You don't find it worrying that they were able to source the component parts necessary to manufacture ammunition.

Not particularly - Whilst violent crime in general, and gun crime in particular have increased over the past few years, it is at least confined to certain narrow geographic areas.  And I used to live in one (Easton, in Bristol, since you asked).  Innocent bystanders being killed is, mercifully, so rare it makes national headlines for days.

Muggings, knife crime, and violent assault related to dealing of cannabis and weed, on the other hand, is something I worry about. 

I'm far more concerned that the contents of the average gang-member's mum's kitchen drawer, could end up stabbing someone,  than I am some ejiots attempting to make 9mm ammo with components likely bought legally in mainland Europe.

And, no, I'm not advocating for 'knife control'....Stop and search the hell out of anyone suspicious, and mandatory custodial sentences would be a start.

 

[Newbie to this]

35 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

I'm far more concerned that the contents of the average gang-member's mum's kitchen drawer, could end up stabbing someone,  than I am some ejiots attempting to make 9mm ammo with components likely bought legally in mainland Europe.

Both are equally worrying to me, regardless of them 'likely' being sourced in mainland Europe, (it's more likely they were sourced legally in the UK and sold to these criminals, which, as a relaoder is very worrying), and then either brought into the UK illegally or worse still made it through our customs postal system.

 

41 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Stop and search the hell out of anyone suspicious, and mandatory custodial sentences would be a start.

 

On this we agree 💯%

[Lloyd90]

Imagine being worried about some numpty 3D printing the odd gun, when we have a drug industry bringing in hundreds of tons of cocaine as well as other drugs every year. 
 

Those same criminals could very easily bring in firearms by the boat load if they wanted to, but quite simply they don’t really need to it seems. 

[udderlyoffroad]

Seems there was another person sentenced to 5 years (!) yesterday for manufacturing an FGC. No history of violence, nor as far as I can make out any intent to use it.  Meanwhile pond life like that irritating Tiktok'ist walk free, despite repeated criminal acts.

The lack of any apparent explanation as to how these people got their hands on  ammunition is strange though - although interestingly it states police found 'bullets' in his toolbox, but not whether they were the requisite 9mm the FGC design uses.

 

 

[Westley]

17 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Seems there was another person sentenced to 5 years (!) yesterday for manufacturing an FGC. No history of violence, nor as far as I can make out any intent to use it.  Meanwhile pond life like that irritating Tiktok'ist walk free, despite repeated criminal acts.

The lack of any apparent explanation as to how these people got their hands on  ammunition is strange though - although interestingly it states police found 'bullets' in his toolbox, but not whether they were the requisite 9mm the FGC design uses.

 

 

Is it known if the ammunition was LEAD  ?    🙄