Konor Posted December 22, 2023 Report Share Posted December 22, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, holloway said: life's too short to go through all that lot again ! just a short appraisal will be fine 😀 Excess in the commercial shooting market has raised a perception of environmental and health problems created by the use of lead shot. Bureaucracy is only too willing to fill it’s time in the process of controlling the perceived problem Anti field sports are delighted as the end result should be a reduction in live quarry shooting and a curtailment of lines of cheering guns dropping ,or not, ever higher birds. BASC contributed by approving a voluntary ban on the use of lead shot but insists it has always opposed any restrictions on lead shot and appears to proclaim it still does. Rough shooters and those taking a sustainable crop of birds for the table are losing the ability to use a wider range of ammunition and wider range of shotguns to enjoy their sport. Any shooting complainants are being asked to adapt and get on with life. Edited December 22, 2023 by Konor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkom Posted December 22, 2023 Report Share Posted December 22, 2023 As above ..... a factual and accurate synopsis of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted December 22, 2023 Report Share Posted December 22, 2023 1 minute ago, Konor said: Excess in the commercial shooting market has raised a perception of environmental and health problems created by the use of lead shot. Bureaucracy is only too willing to fill it’s time in the process of controlling the perceived problem Anti field sports are delighted as the end result should be a reduction in live quarry shooting and a curtailment of lines of cheering guns dropping ,or not, ever higher birds. BASC contributed in approving a voluntary ban on the use of lead shot but insists it has always opposed any restrictions on lead shot and appears to proclaim it still does. Rough shooters and those taking a sustainable crop of birds for the table are losing the ability to use a wider range of ammunition and wider range of shotguns to enjoy their sport. Any shooting complainants are being asked to adapt and get on with life. Thanks Konor ,that makes it clear ,seems most of the issues are caused by commercial large shoots anyway ,most cant seem to get rid of the bag regardless of being shot with lead or non toxic ,so if not used in the food chain the question of justification comes in to it.I think eating what you shoot is important . i think that commercial shoots are more affected than us small pot hunters ,i have adapted to non toxic years ago ,i used Bismuth in my old Scott 10 bore ,i use bismuth steel and tss in the 410 and steel in my 20 ga, if i needed to load or source large quantities of cartridges for big driven days i would be in trouble ! .Basc seem to take the blame for the whole sorry mess not sure its justified but thats just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted December 22, 2023 Report Share Posted December 22, 2023 11 minutes ago, Konor said: BASC contributed by approving a voluntary ban on the use of lead shot but insists it has always opposed any restrictions on lead shot and appears to proclaim it still does. 11 minutes ago, Konor said: Any shooting complainants are being asked to adapt and get on with life. And if you question the BASC stance ,you are obviously 'anti shooting' and should be publicly abused and vilified . Whilst if you dedicate your life to banning lead projectiles, rub shoulders with Avery and Packham , you get a lifetime honourary membership to BASC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted December 22, 2023 Report Share Posted December 22, 2023 Rewulf - harsh, but fair. 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted December 22, 2023 Report Share Posted December 22, 2023 36 minutes ago, Konor said: Excess in the commercial shooting market has raised a perception of environmental and health problems created by the use of lead shot. Bureaucracy is only too willing to fill it’s time in the process of controlling the perceived problem Anti field sports are delighted as the end result should be a reduction in live quarry shooting and a curtailment of lines of cheering guns dropping ,or not, ever higher birds. BASC contributed by approving a voluntary ban on the use of lead shot but insists it has always opposed any restrictions on lead shot and appears to proclaim it still does. Rough shooters and those taking a sustainable crop of birds for the table are losing the ability to use a wider range of ammunition and wider range of shotguns to enjoy their sport. Any shooting complainants are being asked to adapt and get on with life. 30 minutes ago, harkom said: As above ..... a factual and accurate synopsis of the situation. As above and above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 22, 2023 Report Share Posted December 22, 2023 1 hour ago, holloway said: …….. seems most of the issues are caused by commercial large shoots anyway ,most cant seem to get rid of the bag regardless of being shot with lead or non toxic ,so if not used in the food chain the question of justification comes in to it.I think eating what you shoot is important. …..and round and round we go. Ok, so what issues are caused by commercial large shoots? Should we get rid of them, and what would be the consequences of doing so? What constitutes and differentiates a large commercial shoot to that from a small one? Is there such a thing as a small commercial shoot? Is it a numbers game? If so, what is the difference between a 500 bird day on a commercial shoot and a 100 bird day on five different shoots? Which shoots ‘can’t seem to get rid of the bag regardless….’? You obviously know because you’ve just made the statement regarding ‘most’ of them. Please, enlighten us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted December 22, 2023 Report Share Posted December 22, 2023 25 minutes ago, Scully said: …..and round and round we go. Ok, so what issues are caused by commercial large shoots? Should we get rid of them, and what would be the consequences of doing so? What constitutes and differentiates a large commercial shoot to that from a small one? Is there such a thing as a small commercial shoot? Is it a numbers game? If so, what is the difference between a 500 bird day on a commercial shoot and a 100 bird day on five different shoots? Which shoots ‘can’t seem to get rid of the bag regardless….’? You obviously know because you’ve just made the statement regarding ‘most’ of them. Please, enlighten us. To be fair Scully i have probably made too sweeping a statement concerning commercial shooting ,caught in the trap of believing every story i read about bags being dumped etc i cant be specific nationally but have seen it locally with my own eyes . As with everything there will be some super ethical well run shoots and some awful ones who persecute raptors and dump game, sadly we all as shooters ,hunters, call us what you will ,we will all be judged by the worst standards by the non shooting public .Wild-fowlers are the same some ethically perfect tainted by the behaviour of a few skybusters .I know of one chap travels to Scotland several times a year to shoot geese stays up to a fortnight then drops the majority of his bag into a hunt kennels ,he wont eat them and cant give 20 plus away but they all get eaten ! right or wrong ? who am i to judge. If offence was caused with comments about commercial shoots i apologise as it wasn't intended . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jall25 Posted December 22, 2023 Report Share Posted December 22, 2023 40 minutes ago, Scully said: …..and round and round we go. Ok, so what issues are caused by commercial large shoots? Should we get rid of them, and what would be the consequences of doing so? What constitutes and differentiates a large commercial shoot to that from a small one? Is there such a thing as a small commercial shoot? Is it a numbers game? If so, what is the difference between a 500 bird day on a commercial shoot and a 100 bird day on five different shoots? Which shoots ‘can’t seem to get rid of the bag regardless….’? You obviously know because you’ve just made the statement regarding ‘most’ of them. Please, enlighten us. Good points Scully We shoot 100-125 on our shoot - once a fortnight on average We could easily give 200 birds away each shoot I suppose we cant make people eat more game - but its like so mnay have no idea what they are missing 1 minute ago, holloway said: To be fair Scully i have probably made too sweeping a statement concerning commercial shooting ,caught in the trap of believing every story i read about bags being dumped etc i cant be specific nationally but have seen it locally with my own eyes . As with everything there will be some super ethical well run shoots and some awful ones who persecute raptors and dump game, sadly we all as shooters ,hunters, call us what you will ,we will all be judged by the worst standards by the non shooting public .Wild-fowlers are the same some ethically perfect tainted by the behaviour of a few skybusters .I know of one chap travels to Scotland several times a year to shoot geese stays up to a fortnight then drops the majority of his bag into a hunt kennels ,he wont eat them and cant give 20 plus away but they all get eaten ! right or wrong ? who am i to judge. If offence was caused with comments about commercial shoots i apologise as it wasn't intended . When you have seen birds bein dumped - what did you do ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted December 22, 2023 Report Share Posted December 22, 2023 checked to see if any were edible ,then reported as fly tipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 22, 2023 Report Share Posted December 22, 2023 9 minutes ago, holloway said: To be fair Scully i have probably made too sweeping a statement concerning commercial shooting ,caught in the trap of believing every story i read about bags being dumped etc i cant be specific nationally but have seen it locally with my own eyes . As with everything there will be some super ethical well run shoots and some awful ones who persecute raptors and dump game, sadly we all as shooters ,hunters, call us what you will ,we will all be judged by the worst standards by the non shooting public .Wild-fowlers are the same some ethically perfect tainted by the behaviour of a few skybusters .I know of one chap travels to Scotland several times a year to shoot geese stays up to a fortnight then drops the majority of his bag into a hunt kennels ,he wont eat them and cant give 20 plus away but they all get eaten ! right or wrong ? who am i to judge. If offence was caused with comments about commercial shoots i apologise as it wasn't intended . Fair enough, and thanks for your honesty. 👍 I just get exasperated when I feel I constantly have to defend or justify what I do, to other shooters. No offence taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jall25 Posted December 22, 2023 Report Share Posted December 22, 2023 10 minutes ago, holloway said: checked to see if any were edible ,then reported as fly tipping. What and none where were ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted December 22, 2023 Report Share Posted December 22, 2023 39 minutes ago, jall25 said: Good points Scully We shoot 100-125 on our shoot - once a fortnight on average We could easily give 200 birds away each shoot I suppose we cant make people eat more game - but its like so mnay have no idea what they are missing When you have seen birds bein dumped - what did you do ? Is there not a market for game, or is it diminishing ? many years ago I worked for Ben Rigby near Maldon, we collected from large shoots in Essex and Suffolk and dressed hundreds of pheasant weekly, someone bought them then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jall25 Posted December 22, 2023 Report Share Posted December 22, 2023 16 minutes ago, islandgun said: Is there not a market for game, or is it diminishing ? many years ago I worked for Ben Rigby near Maldon, we collected from large shoots in Essex and Suffolk and dressed hundreds of pheasant weekly, someone bought them then I believe so - but to hear some on here then no We give ours to beaters / guns / pickers up - the neighbours When i shot on commercial shoots many would give and then indeed sell oven ready birds It seems odd to me that Holloway saw birds being dumped - but none were fit to eat - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 22, 2023 Report Share Posted December 22, 2023 1 hour ago, jall25 said: I believe so - but to hear some on here then no We give ours to beaters / guns / pickers up - the neighbours When i shot on commercial shoots many would give and then indeed sell oven ready birds It seems odd to me that Holloway saw birds being dumped - but none were fit to eat - Our average bag for little syndicate is around 40. All are taken. What I can’t use I give some away. They’re all gratefully received. Commercial shoot bag ( anywhere from 250 to 400 ) is chilled and picked up from game dealer. Beaters take as many as they wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted December 22, 2023 Report Share Posted December 22, 2023 1 hour ago, jall25 said: I believe so - but to hear some on here then no We give ours to beaters / guns / pickers up - the neighbours When i shot on commercial shoots many would give and then indeed sell oven ready birds It seems odd to me that Holloway saw birds being dumped - but none were fit to eat - The maggots put me off . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jall25 Posted December 22, 2023 Report Share Posted December 22, 2023 26 minutes ago, holloway said: The maggots put me off . Well why dont you go to the shoot and discuss it with them Or even take the birds off their hands ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted December 22, 2023 Report Share Posted December 22, 2023 Just now, jall25 said: Well why dont you go to the shoot and discuss it with them Or even take the birds off their hands ? To what purpose in both cases ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jall25 Posted December 22, 2023 Report Share Posted December 22, 2023 Just now, holloway said: To what purpose in both cases ? Well i would imagine to eat them ? You saw birds dumped - not good on the shoot You want to eat them Win - win ? No ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted December 22, 2023 Report Share Posted December 22, 2023 I have little understanding of the public TBH but can easily understand Konors suggestion that the large bags of a large commercial shoot could be perceived as an environmental problem. these same public will, Im sure, quickly tuck into a bucket of fried chicken without thought. It seems logical to me that if BASC have a roll it would be best spent on delivering the message of sustainable game meat and the many benefits that shooting bring to the countryside. as had been said many times. Which has a better life, a free range Pheasant or a factory broiler hen. personally I would love some pheasants as its been 30yrs since i ate the last one..😏 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holloway Posted December 22, 2023 Report Share Posted December 22, 2023 26 minutes ago, jall25 said: Well i would imagine to eat them ? You saw birds dumped - not good on the shoot You want to eat them Win - win ? No ? I have no wish to solve there problem for them ,what i shoot i eat thats the only shooting i am comfortable with ,barring pest control . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konor Posted December 22, 2023 Report Share Posted December 22, 2023 56 minutes ago, holloway said: what i shoot i eat thats the only shooting i am comfortable with , That’s my position Holloway but I will stand by those involved in any fieldsport before I side with any antifieldsports supporter a. Because I’ve far more in common with those who fish and shoot b. Because the sole motive of those who oppose the sport I participate in is its complete abolition. and c. I feel that the root of antifieldsports supporters concern didn’t originate with the welfare of the quarry species but a dislike of those participating in field sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted December 22, 2023 Report Share Posted December 22, 2023 55 minutes ago, Konor said: but a dislike of those participating in field sports. Didn't you know, we are all wealthy Toffs Simple left wing class war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted December 22, 2023 Report Share Posted December 22, 2023 Quote I feel that the root of antifieldsports supporters concern didn’t originate with the welfare of the quarry species but a dislike of those participating in field sports. You are not alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jall25 Posted December 22, 2023 Report Share Posted December 22, 2023 4 hours ago, holloway said: I have no wish to solve there problem for them ,what i shoot i eat thats the only shooting i am comfortable with ,barring pest control . You have an odd take on things really though You like eating it - so whats the problem - eat it ? Unless of course the " i saw people dumping birds " - is someone else told me yada yada yada I dont mean to be funny with you but i have been on dozens - and dozens ..... and dozens of different shoots Some / many commercial - and whilst i have little interest in them - other than the ones that grow wild bird covers - supplementary feed - dont overstock ( not all commercial shoots do ) - ensure all birds pricked are at least attempted to be retrieved - i have never once seen birds dumped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts