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9 hours ago, JKD said:

They both do either. Ever seen a jay systematically hunt out nests along the hedge line of a remote river or field ? It's heartbreaking, but it's nature as you well know. They usually 'hunt' solitary, whereas magpies do this in numbers.

I shoot either if possible, but jays are much more furtive and consequently harder to shoot. They are IMO a very stunning looking bird.

Without a shadow of doubt stunning - all nature is really - a magpie in full bloom is amazing

 

Up here the jays work the woods in packs - flitting from tree to tree in relays looking for opportunities 

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10 hours ago, jall25 said:

It depends what you want from your perms really i suppose

I want to give the little farmland and woodland birds the best chance i can - i have seen jays take full nests of chicks - eggs the lot - They are in my opinion specialists of the woods with their cousin the magpie more of the hedge - garden menace

And I have seen a group of Magpies take 8 or 9 ducklings from a nest with the duck unable to do anything about it - and this was in a tiny garden area in the middle of a large hospital. My main vermin control perm is parkland and the owners do not want Jays shot although Magpies are allowed if on the feeders or the shooter deems the shot to be safe (there are members of the public within 40-50 yards most of the time so opportunities are rare), the number and variety of songbirds has increased massively by controlling the grey menace so the parks policy seems to be working. On top of all this - I simply have no intention of shooting a Jay and gain more pleasure watching them on the feeder than I could ever hope to have if I shot one.

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1 minute ago, bruno22rf said:

And I have seen a group of Magpies take 8 or 9 ducklings from a nest with the duck unable to do anything about it - and this was in a tiny garden area in the middle of a large hospital. My main vermin control perm is parkland and the owners do not want Jays shot although Magpies are allowed if on the feeders or the shooter deems the shot to be safe (there are members of the public within 40-50 yards most of the time so opportunities are rare), the number and variety of songbirds has increased massively by controlling the grey menace so the parks policy seems to be working. On top of all this - I simply have no intention of shooting a Jay and gain more pleasure watching them on the feeder than I could ever hope to have if I shot one.

Thats good to hear - and its totally up to you regarding jays 

One of the biggest predators to ducks and ducklings is rats 

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10 hours ago, London Best said:

Nobody who has done any game keeping would not shoot jays.

That again is entirely their choice and I don't blame them (but then we know just how choosy some keepers can be as to what they shoot 😉) I have nothing to do with game shooting, went once and didn't like it so never tried it again.

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11 hours ago, bruno22rf said:

That again is entirely their choice and I don't blame them (but then we know just how choosy some keepers can be as to what they shoot 😉) I have nothing to do with game shooting, went once and didn't like it so never tried it again.

 

I would go further and say - most who love seeing the little birds shoot jays

What did you not like Bruno ? - just interested - if a little nosey !

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6 hours ago, jall25 said:

 

I would go further and say - most who love seeing the little birds shoot jays

What did you not like Bruno ? - just interested - if a little nosey !

Apologies for wandering off topic to the OP. Game shooting - disliked the fact that most birds were shot at close range and ,in one case, literally blown to pieces after being shot by several guns, then being scolded for not shooting a running Hen pheasant. I have shot game over the years but only if asked to by a landowner wanting one for the pot other than that I always shoulder my gun and swing through birds but never pull the trigger.The "little bird" population has increased dramatically by controlling the greys in the woodlands that I cover, I see no massive reason to shoot the odd Jay. 

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24 minutes ago, bruno22rf said:

Game shooting - disliked the fact that most birds were shot at close range and ,in one case, literally blown to pieces after being shot by several guns, then being scolded for not shooting a running Hen pheasant. 

You obviously went to the wrong (carp!) game shoot with a bunch of idiots who didn’t know what they were doing.

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51 minutes ago, London Best said:

You obviously went to the wrong (carp!) game shoot with a bunch of idiots who didn’t know what they were doing.

 

You are fast on the trigger LB 

Was going to say exactly the same thing 

Sometimes the odd birds - 2 ,3,4,5 get damaged as they fall from the sky - hit a tree or even have a dog pull them dead from cover - but even those can make a meal

If you went on a shoot as you describe no wonder you dont like it - i wouldnt either 

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7 minutes ago, jall25 said:

If you went on a shoot as you describe no wonder you dont like it - i wouldnt either 

I was invited as a guest on exactly such a shoot about four seasons ago. 
Not a big shoot, but at 60/70 birds in the bag plenty big enough for there to be more than enough  for everyone to get some shooting. Without exception, every bird I shot that day was plugged at least once more as it fell from the sky. Afterwards I naturally thanked my host for his kind invitation and told him I had enjoyed myself (!). The team had obviously enjoyed my company as I was invited a further three times that season. 
I declined every invitation.

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1 hour ago, bruno22rf said:

Apologies for wandering off topic to the OP. Game shooting - disliked the fact that most birds were shot at close range and ,in one case, literally blown to pieces after being shot by several guns, then being scolded for not shooting a running Hen pheasant.  

As already said , you couldn't had picked a worse shoot to have a go at game shooting and I very much doubt if that shoot is still running with the rubbish word of mouth feedback it would had got .

Something I have never seen is scolding a gun for not shooting a Hen Pheasant , if that happened on any other shoot he would have been putting it mildly scolded for shooting a running Pheasant and that would have been the last Pheasant he would had shot on any of the shoots I go on .   MM

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BUT,unfortunately there are a few too many shoots just like that. I had the misfortune to be on such a day at the end of last season. After over 60 years of shooting, some of the things I witnessed on that day made me decide that game shooting is no longer for me. I intend to just shoot clays.

Edited by Westley
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26 minutes ago, Westley said:

BUT,unfortunately there are a few too many shoots just like that. I had the misfortune to be on such a day at the end of last season. After over 60 years of shooting, some of the things I witnessed on that day made me decide that game shooting is no longer for me. I intend to just shoot clays.

Has it not occurred to you that it may be the fact that people start their shooting career away from the game field which causes such ignorant behaviour?

Lack of a proper introduction to thes sport?

Edited by London Best
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5 hours ago, bruno22rf said:

then being scolded for not shooting a running Hen pheasant

You did the right thing not to shoot any game unless you can see sky anyone seen shooting at anything running on the floor and i will ask them to leave there gun in its case until the shoot captain has had a quiet word with the offender 

Edited by Rim Fire
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48 minutes ago, Rim Fire said:

You did the right thing not to shoot any game unless you can see sky anyone seen shooting at anything running on the floor and i will ask them to leave there gun in its case until the shoot captain has had a quiet word with the offender 

Normally on the prep talk before the guns move off it would , or should have been mentioned No Ground Game , the picker up's are employed to deal with any running pheasants and they wouldn't have been happy if one of the guns had put a shot across a running bird , more so if it was running towards the picker up , some very colourful language would have been clearly heard .   MM

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1 hour ago, Rim Fire said:

You did the right thing not to shoot any game unless you can see sky anyone seen shooting at anything running on the floor and i will ask them to leave there gun in its case until the shoot captain has had a quiet word with the offender 

It was worse than that - the Hen was running along the hedgerow on the edge of a small wood where more guns were walking and to shoot at it would have put them in the line of fire. BUT the other reason I did not even consider the shot was that it was totally unsporting.

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3 hours ago, London Best said:

Has it not occurred to you that it may be the fact that people start their shooting career away from the game field which causes such ignorant behaviour?

Lack of a proper introduction to thes sport?

Oh yes, it has WELL occurred to me, I can assure you. The three worst offenders were talking about their recent experiences on simulated game days. They remarked about how shooting you neighbours birds is positively encouraged.  Just a shame they could not tell the difference between simulated and the REAL thing. The only good thing that came out of it, was the fact I was in the company of a novice game shooter, and I was able to explain to him how NOT to behave, with graphic pictures  !

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