Additional resources for firearms licensing in Cumbria following BASC meeting

[Conor O'Gorman]

Chief Constable of Cumbria Constabulary, Rob Carden, has committed additional resources to the department, with a view to resolving their current backlogs by 22 July 2024.

https://basc.org.uk/additional-resources-for-firearms-licensing-in-cumbria-following-basc-meeting/

 

[Gordon R]

Excellent result for BASC and all licence holders in that area. Well done.

[London Best]

My Cumbrian friend (a professional rifleman) waited over 12 months for his last renewal, with multiple extension letters. Simply not good enough.

[JohnfromUK]

Our present Police and Crime Commissioner (PCC) claims to be reducing the wait.  I can think of an easy way.  Pass some of the 67 staff he has in his department (the Office of the Police and Crime Commissioner) to doing actual police work, issuing licenses, detecting and prosecuting burglars, thieves, shoplifters, violent crime, rural crime, and walking the beat reassuring the public.  It's actually quite hard to see what his office costs, but salaries for the 67 range from £30K to 95K with many seeming to get around £40-50K.

The PCC website mentions that they have increased the FLU staffing and added another 10 vehicles.

[HantsRob]

Conor,

Is that committed as in they are allocated now, or he's committed to assigning additional resource?
What is the training time to get someone to FEO level?
What resource will genuinely help, with such a short period of time is it admin staff or FEOs?
Is this a temporary uplift to cover the backlog or a commitment to leave some in role once the backlog is complete?

Genuinely an interesting good news story. None is meant to BASC bash, just genuine interest as the article could just be waffle without detail, and curious as I am sure others are as to what actually is the outcome? 

Now for the negative.....

They met on the 29th April, and initial progress has already been 30% reduction in FAC renewals and 42% in SGC renewals? All this in 1 day as that was released on the 30th April? This sounds like the CC was already doing this, and the actions of BASC really is just a tail end of the meeting. 
It smells of taking credit for something that was already happening. It would be interesting to listen to the actual truth of what the timeline is, rather than a good news story where it is either impossible or it's not truth.

I want this to be true. 
I ache for it to be true.
The data literally in the article shows it is not. 😞

[Conor O'Gorman]

24 minutes ago, HantsRob said:

Conor,

Is that committed as in they are allocated now, or he's committed to assigning additional resource?
What is the training time to get someone to FEO level?
What resource will genuinely help, with such a short period of time is it admin staff or FEOs?
Is this a temporary uplift to cover the backlog or a commitment to leave some in role once the backlog is complete?

Genuinely an interesting good news story. None is meant to BASC bash, just genuine interest as the article could just be waffle without detail, and curious as I am sure others are as to what actually is the outcome? 

Now for the negative.....

They met on the 29th April, and initial progress has already been 30% reduction in FAC renewals and 42% in SGC renewals? All this in 1 day as that was released on the 30th April? This sounds like the CC was already doing this, and the actions of BASC really is just a tail end of the meeting. 
It smells of taking credit for something that was already happening. It would be interesting to listen to the actual truth of what the timeline is, rather than a good news story where it is either impossible or it's not truth.

I want this to be true. 
I ache for it to be true.
The data literally in the article shows it is not. 😞

I don't know. I have asked a colleague.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Well done BASC.   

[oowee]

👍

[Conor O'Gorman]

4 hours ago, HantsRob said:

Conor,

Is that committed as in they are allocated now, or he's committed to assigning additional resource?
What is the training time to get someone to FEO level?
What resource will genuinely help, with such a short period of time is it admin staff or FEOs?
Is this a temporary uplift to cover the backlog or a commitment to leave some in role once the backlog is complete?

Genuinely an interesting good news story. None is meant to BASC bash, just genuine interest as the article could just be waffle without detail, and curious as I am sure others are as to what actually is the outcome? 

Now for the negative.....

They met on the 29th April, and initial progress has already been 30% reduction in FAC renewals and 42% in SGC renewals? All this in 1 day as that was released on the 30th April? This sounds like the CC was already doing this, and the actions of BASC really is just a tail end of the meeting. 
It smells of taking credit for something that was already happening. It would be interesting to listen to the actual truth of what the timeline is, rather than a good news story where it is either impossible or it's not truth.

I want this to be true. 
I ache for it to be true.
The data literally in the article shows it is not. 😞

Deputy Police and Crime Commissioner for Cumbria, Mike Johnson, got the ball rolling on this following a conversation with BASC at a local gamekeepers event in March. Since then we have seen a 30% reduction in outstanding firearms certificate renewals and a 42% reduction in shotgun certificate renewals. 

Then at the meeting this week with the Chief Constable a date has been set for 22 July to resolve the backlogs with additional resources promised to achieve that. My understanding is that this is a temporary uplift in support and I don't have the details on the ins and outs of that. 

What we will be looking for is how things look in July and onwards.

I hope that helps explains things sufficiently that progress is being made and look set to continue. It is also a good case in point on how a PCC office can make a difference to firearms licensing. With that in mind please check out our PCC campaign website and check your area, and please make the effort to vote tommorow. If I recall correctly, back in the day our BASC Wales office used to have badges in green along lines of "I shoot, hunt and vote". 

https://basc.org.uk/pcc-contact-page/

 

[eightlittlebits]

I don't suppose BASC has any contact with Hampshire Firearms or PCC? They seem to be heading for one of the worst.

Having contacted the PCC in the run up to the elections the incumbent says they have made firearms licensing a priority over the last 3 years, in which time it's dropped from 12 weeks to nearly a year.

Personally applied in Sept 2023 and heard nothing yet. Last communication was the end of February and they were processing June 2023 grant applications. Assuming a 12 week turnaround to process that puts them at ~ 11 months.

Planning on following up with the PCC once the elections are done and dusted.

[Conor O'Gorman]

2 hours ago, eightlittlebits said:

I don't suppose BASC has any contact with Hampshire Firearms or PCC? They seem to be heading for one of the worst.

Having contacted the PCC in the run up to the elections the incumbent says they have made firearms licensing a priority over the last 3 years, in which time it's dropped from 12 weeks to nearly a year.

Personally applied in Sept 2023 and heard nothing yet. Last communication was the end of February and they were processing June 2023 grant applications. Assuming a 12 week turnaround to process that puts them at ~ 11 months.

Planning on following up with the PCC once the elections are done and dusted.

Yes, we are in contact with all police forces on a regular basis and next week we will start contacting the newly elected PCCs with priority being on the most poorly performing forces for firearms licensing. Feedback received during this campaign will help in that regard for those candidates successfully elected that made pledges on firearms licensing during the campaign. But nonetheless we will keep pursuing improvements through many avenues.

[eightlittlebits]

8 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Yes, we are in contact with all police forces on a regular basis and next week we will start contacting the newly elected PCCs with priority being on the most poorly performing forces for firearms licensing. Feedback received during this campaign will help in that regard for those candidates successfully elected that made pledges on firearms licensing during the campaign. But nonetheless we will keep pursuing improvements through many avenues.

Do you have the details of the poorest performing forces? I know the table at Firearms licensing league table - BASC hasn't been updated since 2022 and things seem to have moved on a lot since then, will the table be updated publicly anytime soon?

[HantsRob]

19 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

My understanding is that this is a temporary uplift in support and I don't have the details on the ins and outs of that. 

I hope that helps explains things sufficiently that progress is being made and look set to continue.

Transparent and clear, thankyou Conor! It is appreciated.

I would second the question on force performance, if and when that data becomes available. 

[Conor O'Gorman]

21 hours ago, eightlittlebits said:

Do you have the details of the poorest performing forces? I know the table at Firearms licensing league table - BASC hasn't been updated since 2022 and things seem to have moved on a lot since then, will the table be updated publicly anytime soon?

I have checked with colleagues and we plan on producing another report later this year. Below is a list of the poorest performing forces based on our data from end of last year. Those marked with an Asterix * are either improving or have credible plans to provide a better service.

• Cumbria*
• D&C*
• Dorset*
• Durham
• Dyfed-Powys*
• Gloucestershire
• Gwent
• MPS*
• Northamptonshire
• Northumbria
• S Wales
• W Mercia
• Wiltshire

The PCC results are now coming in and we will start contacting newly elected PCCs in follow-up to BASC's PCC campaign. PCCs can make a difference and have powers to give extra resources to FLDs. As per a previous comment improvements in Cumbria, for example, arose from Deputy Police and Crime Commissioner for Cumbria, Mike Johnson, got the ball rolling on this following a conversation with BASC at a local gamekeepers event in March.

[BlaserF3]

Mike Johnson, lost his job yesterday.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

4 minutes ago, BlaserF3 said:

Mike Johnson, lost his job yesterday.

And he will NOT be the ONLY one.......

[HantsRob]

Donna in Hampshire was kept in. Some may knock her, however she helped with my application. I have met her and actually seems like she's in the fight for 'the greater good'. 

Interesting to see Wiltshire in that list. A friend in Wilts is applying and he really doesn't mind waiting a year if necessary. What is unacceptable is texts are emails being blatantly ignored by the FEO directly, and the generic email address refusing to email either.

That's the thing with accountability, I am sure I am not the only one that would accept longer wait times with transparent and honest communications, and regular updates. It wouldn't be too costly in time to do a monthly update as a minimum, or agree a communication contract. That's to say you'll be given a timeline at the start, say 6 months. Months 1-3 will be no contact, month 4 is starting checks, month 5 is visitation, and then letting you know of deviations. (of course that should be weeks in an ideal world!)

It's the bad - well lack of - any updates that seems to frustrate people most? If my FEO told me at day 90 that I had 2-3 weeks and it was genuine, I wouldn't have bothered him again. But ignoring fortnightly emails for 8-10 weeks is just rude.

[CumbrianWildfowler]

This is a great result and wonderful work by BASC. I know of a person who is still waiting for their shotgun certificate after waiting 13 months. That, after the waiting for 8 months to actually apply as Cumbria Police were not even taking applications for most of 2022. The shutters were down. There were no staff and anecdotally 11'000 application backlog. It is a model of single point vulnerability even when the office opened for business. I understand it is comfortable the work police force in the country for turnaround time. That is not to say that the people who are there aren't nice hard working people but from an organisational point of view it has been an embarrassment and peoples lifestyles have been on hold for years. Simply not good enough.

But well done BASC again. Lets hope it actually speeds things up....

Nick

[Conor O'Gorman]

A further positive development.

Cumbria police revealed during the latest meeting with BASC that it is making rapid progress and has reduced its backlog of renewals by 57 per cent since the introduction of new resources in April.

BASC’s head of firearms Martin Parker met with Superintendent Andy Wilkinson and Chief Inspector Lee Skelton last week where he was reassured that the force is still on track to cut its backlog and the officers underlined the force’s commitment to hitting the following targets:

• No backlogs on renewals
• Grants issued within 17 weeks
• Non-judicial outcome suitability reviews within eight weeks
• Variations within four weeks

More info from weblink below:

https://basc.org.uk/cumbria-police-on-track-to-reduce-backlog/

 

[phaedra1106]

Wish someone would do something about Durham, they've been very poor for years now.

Latest timescale given on their website for renewing an FAC is 10 months!!,

That's over 300 days!, nowhere near the 88 days it says on your table 😌

https://basc.org.uk/firearms/firearms-licensing-league-table/

Edited May 15 by phaedra1106

[Conor O'Gorman]

13 hours ago, phaedra1106 said:

Wish someone would do something about Durham, they've been very poor for years now.

Latest timescale given on their website for renewing an FAC is 10 months!!,

That's over 300 days!, nowhere near the 88 days it says on your table 😌

https://basc.org.uk/firearms/firearms-licensing-league-table/

Durham is on our priority list to follow-up post PCC elections. The firearms table link is from 2021 - things have clearly got worse since then. Hopefully we can get similar commitments for Durham as secured in Cumbria, albeit more challenging given that the elected PCC did not respond to any emails from members during the BASC PCC campaign. 

[eightlittlebits]

Is Hampshire on the list? PCC responded during the campaign. 

Highlighted in the recent NGO video as one of those whose service seems to be declining as opposed to others that are just bad or improving.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

32 minutes ago, eightlittlebits said:

Is Hampshire on the list? PCC responded during the campaign. 

Highlighted in the recent NGO video as one of those whose service seems to be declining as opposed to others that are just bad or improving.

 

Thanks, Hampshire is not on our priority list but I will share the NGO video with colleagues in case they have not seen it yet.

[HantsRob]

1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Thanks, Hampshire is not on our priority list but I will share the NGO video with colleagues in case they have not seen it yet.

As a definable metric, what is the threshold to make a county force become a priority?

Days for new grant? Days for renewal? Who is moaning the most? 

I'd have hoped all under performing forces would be a priority, hence the curiosity to how this is defined.

[eightlittlebits]

1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Thanks, Hampshire is not on our priority list but I will share the NGO video with colleagues in case they have not seen it yet.

Not direct figures from the force but people on a Hampshire clay shooting group who have managed to get a grant in the last year all seem to be saying it was ~12 months from application, not the 10 months quoted in that video.