Help a Newbie

[old'un]

1 hour ago, Jay01 said:

Marsh man and old’un also mentioned field craft, it’s definitely an aspect I haven’t overly focused on. I will definitely be trying their suggestions.

I will complete my profile later on because what you mentioned is I think exactly what I need, thank you. 

Pigeon shooting can be frustrating, if you go looking 10 times and you hit lucky on one of those days you will be doing well, although you can get some fields that will produce for a number of days or even longer, usually they are spring sown fields (beans and peas are good) or laid corn and stubble fields, unfortunately for you we are entering the lean times, winter, it’s when most of the stubble shooter put their gear away, there's plenty of stubble shooters out there but it takes someone very very keen to chase pigeons year after year and all year round, shooting over winter rape soon sorts the men from the boys, its also very time consuming and as I said a frustrating time, lost count of shooters I have bumped into over the years who talk the talk but never seem to walk the walk after a few outings on winter rape.

Pigeon shooting is some of the best shooting there is, don't know your age but hope your keenness lasts and we see your progress over the years and perhaps a few posts of hopefully a successful day.

[marsh man]

Jay01 , Please do not think we are finding fault or coming down a bit hard on the information you are giving us , I can assure you we are not and the vast majority are very helpful guys and will go out of there way to help and to give you sound advice .

I can fully understand when you see constant big bags posted that you want to get amongst the action , you have gained a permission and seen a flock , or at least several Pigeons using the field you are looking at , in your haste to start shooting you quickly set up and put your decoys out , the gun is taken out of it's sleeve and cartridges are put in the breech , now you are ready for the first Pigeon to sail into your decoys , after 30 minutes or so not a single Pigeon have come into your decoys and you have been watching the numbers building up on the other side of the field , you are now thinking you should have been on the other side as you can see Pigeons coming over the road and following the hedge line to drop in the flock that are already feeding to there heart's content with no disturbance , so you can now see the first mistake you have made by setting up in the wrong place , as old'un said about walking off any Pigeons that are already down is very sound advice and if none come back in the first 20 / 30 minutes then there is a good possibility they are not coming back , if a few do start coming back then that is a good start , set up where you have got some back ground cover as close to where they are entering the field as possible , if all go well you will get some shooting and you will learn more with each day out shooting or even when you just looking , 

We are still learning and will never know all there is to know so you are not alone in the learning process .   GOOD LUCK  Jay

[Jay01]

45 minutes ago, marsh man said:

Jay01 , Please do not think we are finding fault or coming down a bit hard on the information you are giving us , I can assure you we are not and the vast majority are very helpful guys and will go out of there way to help and to give you sound advice .

I can fully understand when you see constant big bags posted that you want to get amongst the action , you have gained a permission and seen a flock , or at least several Pigeons using the field you are looking at , in your haste to start shooting you quickly set up and put your decoys out , the gun is taken out of it's sleeve and cartridges are put in the breech , now you are ready for the first Pigeon to sail into your decoys , after 30 minutes or so not a single Pigeon have come into your decoys and you have been watching the numbers building up on the other side of the field , you are now thinking you should have been on the other side as you can see Pigeons coming over the road and following the hedge line to drop in the flock that are already feeding to there heart's content with no disturbance , so you can now see the first mistake you have made by setting up in the wrong place , as old'un said about walking off any Pigeons that are already down is very sound advice and if none come back in the first 20 / 30 minutes then there is a good possibility they are not coming back , if a few do start coming back then that is a good start , set up where you have got some back ground cover as close to where they are entering the field as possible , if all go well you will get some shooting and you will learn more with each day out shooting or even when you just looking , 

We are still learning and will never know all there is to know so you are not alone in the learning process .   GOOD LUCK  Jay

I don’t think that you guys are coming down hard on me for a second.  I’m honestly loving the sound advice.  Some excellent pointers that I would not have learnt anywhere else.  The scenario you pictured is all far too familiar and I was concerned it was becoming a regular pattern, but hey, that’s exactly why I eventually decided to come here for some blunt advice otherwise I would’ve got nowhere fast! So I am extremely grateful that there are guys out there like yourselves that actually give two hoots and like to help out.  

 

1 hour ago, marsh man said:

Jay01 , Please do not think we are finding fault or coming down a bit hard on the information you are giving us , I can assure you we are not and the vast majority are very helpful guys and will go out of there way to help and to give you sound advice .

I can fully understand when you see constant big bags posted that you want to get amongst the action , you have gained a permission and seen a flock , or at least several Pigeons using the field you are looking at , in your haste to start shooting you quickly set up and put your decoys out , the gun is taken out of it's sleeve and cartridges are put in the breech , now you are ready for the first Pigeon to sail into your decoys , after 30 minutes or so not a single Pigeon have come into your decoys and you have been watching the numbers building up on the other side of the field , you are now thinking you should have been on the other side as you can see Pigeons coming over the road and following the hedge line to drop in the flock that are already feeding to there heart's content with no disturbance , so you can now see the first mistake you have made by setting up in the wrong place , as old'un said about walking off any Pigeons that are already down is very sound advice and if none come back in the first 20 / 30 minutes then there is a good possibility they are not coming back , if a few do start coming back then that is a good start , set up where you have got some back ground cover as close to where they are entering the field as possible , if all go well you will get some shooting and you will learn more with each day out shooting or even when you just looking , 

We are still learning and will never know all there is to know so you are not alone in the learning process .   GOOD LUCK  Jay

 

4 hours ago, old'un said:

Pigeon shooting can be frustrating, if you go looking 10 times and you hit lucky on one of those days you will be doing well, although you can get some fields that will produce for a number of days or even longer, usually they are spring sown fields (beans and peas are good) or laid corn and stubble fields, unfortunately for you we are entering the lean times, winter, it’s when most of the stubble shooter put their gear away, there's plenty of stubble shooters out there but it takes someone very very keen to chase pigeons year after year and all year round, shooting over winter rape soon sorts the men from the boys, its also very time consuming and as I said a frustrating time, lost count of shooters I have bumped into over the years who talk the talk but never seem to walk the walk after a few outings on winter rape.

Pigeon shooting is some of the best shooting there is, don't know your age but hope your keenness lasts and we see your progress over the years and perhaps a few posts of hopefully a successful day.

I am definitely keen, and I have the luxury of having some flexibility and freedom with my time. I’m in my early 40’s so there’s plenty of time for me to be patient and get to grips with it all, I definitely won’t be that bloke that gives up at the first hurdle.  
It honestly wouldn’t bother me being out in the elements over the winter, however, that’s once I have figured out what I am doing to make it worth while…. I saw your message earlier, I will send you a picture of my current decoys shortly. 👍🏻

[clangerman]

if you need anything more than pair of binos and ten real birds in the right spot to shoot pigeons it’s time to buy a fishing rod 

[old'un]

1 hour ago, clangerman said:

if you need anything more than pair of binos and ten real birds in the right spot to shoot pigeons it’s time to buy a fishing rod 

sometimes that is not always possible.

[marsh man]

4 hours ago, Jay01 said:

I don’t think that you guys are coming down hard on me for a second.  I’m honestly loving the sound advice.  Some excellent pointers that I would not have learnt anywhere else.  The scenario you pictured is all far too familiar and I was concerned it was becoming a regular pattern, but hey, that’s exactly why I eventually decided to come here for some blunt advice otherwise I would’ve got nowhere fast! So I am extremely grateful that there are guys out there like yourselves that actually give two hoots and like to help out.  

 

 

I am definitely keen, and I have the luxury of having some flexibility and freedom with my time. I’m in my early 40’s so there’s plenty of time for me to be patient and get to grips with it all, I definitely won’t be that bloke that gives up at the first hurdle.  
It honestly wouldn’t bother me being out in the elements over the winter, however, that’s once I have figured out what I am doing to make it worth while…. I saw your message earlier, I will send you a picture of my current decoys shortly. 👍🏻

Jay ,   we have got a few members who shoot in Essex , maybe the odd one can get in touch just to point you in the right direction and maybe invite you to join them one day either on your perm or one they have got , this is not the best time of the year to shoot Pigeons with most of the stubbles now pulled up and now a lot of land is taking up with game shooting , this is not to say there isn't any Pigeon shooting about but around our way a lot of farms and estates are heavenly into shooting game .

What crop , stubble or drilled land are you looking at the moment ? 

A t b   MM

Edited October 8 by marsh man

[mellors]

Well there's definitely one in Essex we know of. 👍

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Jay, be a little more specific, Essex is a large place and it might get you the help you want.

[old'un]

thinking about the quality of your decoys and how realistic they need to-be, I remember some 50+ years ago making some decoys out of half round guttering and hand painting them to look as near to a pigeon as possible, from a distance they looked very real and from what I remember they pulled pigeons.

Now today people are told they need the very latest in decoy design with ultraviolet paint and flock coated to stop shine, does make me wonder if pigeons are more intelligent today than they were 50 odd years ago, be interesting to put my old gutter decoys out today and see what happens.

The one game changer over the years as been movement in the form of magnets and flappers.

Talking of intelligent birds and decoys I think it was PW member steve_b_wales who made some corvid decoys out of black plastic bags, if I remember he said they worked well, sure he/someone will correct me if I have this wrong.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 9 by old'un

[marsh man]

3 hours ago, old'un said:

thinking about the quality of your decoys and how realistic they need to-be, I remember some 50+ years ago making some decoys out of half round guttering and hand painting them to look as near to a pigeon as possible, from a distance they looked very real and from what I remember they pulled pigeons.

Now today people are told they need the very latest in decoy design with ultraviolet paint and flock coated to stop shine, does make me wonder if pigeons are more intelligent today than they were 50 odd years ago, be interesting to put my old gutter decoys out today and see what happens.

The one game changer over the years as been movement in the form of magnets and flappers.

Talking of intelligent birds and decoys I think it was PW member steve_b_wales who made some corvid decoys out of black plastic bags, if I remember he said they worked well, sure he/someone will correct me if I have this wrong.

 

 

 

 

I think the Grey guttering decoys would / could had been the first shell decoys that stacked on top of each other , these did work fine although we didn't have other decoys to compare them with , the shot Pigeons were put out amongst the shell decoys and 50 odd years later we are doing the same , or a very similar set up with the lighter and more realistic flock shell decoys , the one below is very heavy for it's size and more or less made of solid rubber and at a guess I would say it is 40 / 50 years old , would certainly be a bit tough by now .    MM

[ditchman]

i hope to god you know what you have got yourself into....pigeonshooting is worse to be hooked on than crack cocaine

you are asking the right questions..........you are going to be fine....ALLOF US have been in your position

look forward to seeing more of your posts as the time goes on..

[marsh man]

2 hours ago, ditchman said:

i hope to god you know what you have got yourself into....pigeonshooting is worse to be hooked on than crack cocaine

you are asking the right questions..........you are going to be fine....ALLOF US have been in your position

look forward to seeing more of your posts as the time goes on..

No known antidote for the Pigeon shooting addict I am afraid , only infirmity that come with the aging process and when you can no longer hold a gun with the smallest bore that you can use to shoot Pigeons with , sad but true    MM

[Jay01]

On 08/10/2024 at 08:24, old'un said:

Can you post a couple of pictures of the decoys you have.

Sorry for the delayed response… work getting in life’s way as usual…. Here are my current decoys..

 

[old'un]

49 minutes ago, Jay01 said:

Sorry for the delayed response… work getting in life’s way as usual…. Here are my current decoys..

 

Those are plenty good enough to start off with, they look a bit like mine, just replace the plastic decoys with dead birds as you go, once you have 6 or 8 dead birds out plus two on the magnet bring all the plastic ones in, sometimes you can leave them out with the dead birds but the pigeons will tell you if they don't like the mix.

Setting dead birds out….you can buy cradles for the dead birds but I use 3 foot long Hazel sticks to set my dead birds out, the stick need to-be about 12mm diameter at the think end and strong enough to hold the weight of the bird at the thin end (or you could buy some 10mm dowelling) sharpen both ends of sticks, then push the stick up the rear end of the bird till it reaches the head then push into skull, push the stick into the ground at an angle so the wing-tips are just off the ground, if there's some wind it will give some movement to the wings until rigor mortis sets in, if you still want some movement after this just brake the wing close to the body although once you have enough dead birds out plus the magnet/flapper it does not seem to make much difference.

 

 

Edited October 11 by old'un

[mellors]

30 minutes ago, Jay01 said:

Sorry for the delayed response… work getting in life’s way as usual…. Here are my current decoys..

 

Absolutely nothing wrong with them. Maybe highlight the white a bit. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Absolutely NOTHING wrong with those decoys.   

[marsh man]

They, like most decoys on the market will do what they were made for with no problem , the decoys are fine but you still need to do your bit and try to place them in such a way where they will attract the eye of oncoming pigeons , the only thing I can add is to make sure they are above ground level , the pegs that are normally supplied with the decoys are fine on drillings and short crops but on rape before the frost knock it down a bit you might have to use some short canes . you will learn as go along and one day you will reach your personal best .     MM

[Jay01]

1 hour ago, marsh man said:

They, like most decoys on the market will do what they were made for with no problem , the decoys are fine but you still need to do your bit and try to place them in such a way where they will attract the eye of oncoming pigeons , the only thing I can add is to make sure they are above ground level , the pegs that are normally supplied with the decoys are fine on drillings and short crops but on rape before the frost knock it down a bit you might have to use some short canes . you will learn as go along and one day you will reach your personal best .     MM

Thanks for the input gents.  
So for me it clarifies what we’ve spoken about and definitely comes down to what you and old’un said about concentrating on and learning the field craft aspect more so, instead of being a dodgy tradesman and blaming my tools 😂

I will keep my decoys as they are, order my whirley and in the mean time I will just go over the farm and try out yours and old’uns advice and just observe and clap them off field etc see if they come back to the same spot etc. 

appreciate your time and input gents, thank you, hopefully I can report back soon either way some news of improvement, failing that more advice. 👍🏻


 

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello,  When I started some 50 plus years ago my Bible was a book called, Pigeon Shooting by Archie Coats, But a modern version might help with the new gear you can buy today, Do not give up as once you start reading and put into practice all your efforts will be rewarded, as said you could tidy up the colors , There are previous posts where they gave details of paint colors you can buy in small pots ??

[Acerforestry]

You could try watching Youtube videos with Paul Payne, a top notch shooter also from Essex, Andy Crow equally good. Paul is on there with Jon from The Gun Shop in a couple of videos or so. I'm still a novice, and the info from these blokes is invaluable

[THEINVISIBLESCARECROW]

After many years I've learnt every day, every situation, every location is different. Just when you start to know it all everything changes. All advice is best thought of how to adapt that advice to your situation on that day. If shots are far & few between just make value of observations.

[marsh man]

3 hours ago, THEINVISIBLESCARECROW said:

After many years I've learnt every day, every situation, every location is different. Just when you start to know it all everything changes. All advice is best thought of how to adapt that advice to your situation on that day. If shots are far & few between just make value of observations.

There are days ( plenty of them ) where things just do not go right , the only difference is that after a while you can read those sort of days a lot earlier than when you first started , same with being in the right location , you think you have got it right because you are getting the odd shot but as the day wear on you are seeing more and more Pigeons going along the far hedge or even dropping in around that tree that is very near to the middle of the field , but as you are getting a few shots you don't fancy moving all your kit 150 yards or so to get twice as much shooting , in time you might had picked setting up near that tree in the first place only to find the wind is wrong and you would had been better off if you had set up in your original spot , again it is all part of the learning curve that will last simply for ever .      MM

[motty]

On 06/10/2024 at 13:55, Jay01 said:

Afternoon all.  
I'm new to pigeon shooting, although patient and eager, 6 or so trips to the farm I have shot more squirrels than woodies and I’m starting to get teed off. I can build a great hide( picture added any advice welcome), decoy pattern and wind direction all thoughtfully placed with best looking flight line I can get close to ( to the best of my knowledge & research) and it’s not coming together. 
I met a chap on a duck shoot recently and luckily he is an old pro and gave me some tips, ie, my decoys were below par and not flocked, so I will be treating myself to new half shell flocked, I am not sure if jack pykes on a spring would be better or worse than A1’s half shelled? Also magnet choice.  A1 do what seems a reasonable lightweight magnet, and so does shoot warehouse. Can anyone offer any insight to quality/longevity from either?

thanks 

An old pro, eh? Funny, I’ve met some similar “old pros” in the past, who knew very little about pigeon shooting. 
Your decoys, for instance, would be way down the list on importance for me.

[old'un]

Just now, motty said:

An old pro, eh? Funny, I’ve met some similar “old pros” in the past, who knew very little about pigeon shooting. 
Your decoys, for instance, would be way down the list on importance for me.

I would have thought pigeon decoys would be important in….err decoying pigeons?

[motty]

3 minutes ago, old'un said:

I would have thought pigeon decoys would be important in….err decoying pigeons?

My point was about “old pros.”

Without having seeing the OPs decoys, I thought this “old pro” was talking rubbish. Now that I have seen them, I KNOW he was.