Mentoring

[steve_b_wales]

My mate has an 'open' certificate to use his .22LR and 17HMR. He's just been granted permission to purchase a .223, which I will be mentoring him with. His FAC states that he can only use the .223 in my company etc, but, only on land that the Chief Constable  has passed for that calibre. I have an 'open' licence for all my calibres, up to my .308. I think this is going to cause problems for him as I think he'll have to find out if the land he shoots over (quite a few farms, spread out over 80-100 miles) has been passed for a .223. 

 

Edited December 6 by steve_b_wales

[oowee]

I thought mentoring was supposed to have been canned on the advice of police firearms? 

Land can be checked over the phone but it's a real nightmare. Different force areas apply different rules (some calibre requested some maximum calibre considered safe) and names of farms and boundaries are never constant. The police records are likely carp. 

It's a complete joke. I put in a formal complaint to firearms about the very same thing. If I was your mate I would suggest to firearms that they bin the mentor request (see if you can find the latest advice) and offer that he does a centre fire course instead.

[Minky]

I'm  surprised at you.  The mentoring thing is a total load of nonsense.  Who is qualified to be a  mentor.? What does that mean.?  In the event of a mishap who is responsible.? The person who pulled the trigger or the person who is overseeing who should have forseen an event and stopped it happening.  Its just a load of made up nonsense made up to put another hoop to jump through. On the face of it, it is supposed to make things a bit safer but different forces have no specific period of mentoring.  It's the same as some forces request that if you reload that you keep a little book of what you reload and dates.?  I  challenged the foes about this and said ... what a load of tosh.  I could write anything down.  You've got no way of veryfing anything.  They kind of shrugged the shouders and no more was said. Ps.  Could you go out and get insurance to cover you, as a mentor in the event of a mishap.?  The idea is half sensible but the shooter has to fly some time.  This is the type of thing that the orgs should be taking 5he police to task on.  But do they .??.

Edited December 6 by Minky

[steve_b_wales]

2 minutes ago, oowee said:

I thought mentoring was supposed to have been canned on the advice of police firearms? 

Land can be checked over the phone but it's a real nightmare. Different force areas apply different rules (some calibre requested some maximum calibre considered safe) and names of farms and boundaries are never constant. The police records are likely carp. 

It's a complete joke. I put in a formal complaint to firearms about the very same thing. If I was your mate I would suggest to firearms that they bin the mentor request (see if you can find the latest advice) and offer that he does a centre fire course instead.

Although my mate has had a .22LR/.17HMR for many years, they (South Wales Police) would not let him have a .223 unless he had a mentor, and, mentoring should be a minimum of six months, although this is not added to the conditions. I agree about it being a nightmare, and that 'mentoring' should be scrapped.

[Minky]

I bet if someone had the money to challenge it in a court that they would soon scrap the stupid idea.

[steve_b_wales]

3 minutes ago, Minky said:

I'm  surprised at you.  The mentoring thing is a total load of nonsense.  Who is qualified to be a  mentor.? What does that mean.?  In the event of a mishap who is responsible.? The person who pulled the trigger or the person who is overseeing who should have forseen an event and stopped it happening.  Its just a load of made up nonsense made up to put another hoop to jump through. On the face of it, it is supposed to make things a bit safer but different forces have no specific period of mentoring.  It's the same as some forces request that if you reload that you keep a little book of what you reload and dates.?  I  challenged the foes about this and said ... what a load of tosh.  I could write anything down.  You've got no way of veryfing anything.  They kind of shrugged the shouders and no more was said. Ps.  Could you go out and get insurance to cover you, as a mentor in the event of a mishap.?  The idea is half sensible but the shooter has to fly some time.

Why are you surprised at me? My mate wanted to purchase a centrefire calibre, he was told 'only if you are mentored' and he asked me, to which I agreed. I agree that it's a stupid condition, but without him agreeing to it, he would not be allowed the centrefire calibre. 

With regard to reloading/dates etc, I just keep receipts of any powder/primers or bullets I purchase. I have never kept any records of when I've been out shooting.

[Minky]

😃😄😀

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Wales, still a few years behind the rest of the UK.

[Digger79]

Having done Mentoring for 223 Centerfire myself, my Opinoin being that if you have an Open Certificate for 22lr 17hmr then you are already Capable of Awareness of gun Safety, Backstop, etc.

And that a Stepup to 223 should not need  Mentoring, 

I have said (Argued) to my FEO that the 22lr is Actually a more Dangerous Calibre to a New Shooter due to the Ricochet of bullet if used on wrong type of Ground.

 

[ShootingEgg]

22 hours ago, oowee said:

I thought mentoring was supposed to have been canned on the advice of police firearms? 

Land can be checked over the phone but it's a real nightmare. Different force areas apply different rules (some calibre requested some maximum calibre considered safe) and names of farms and boundaries are never constant. The police records are likely carp. 

It's a complete joke. I put in a formal complaint to firearms about the very same thing. If I was your mate I would suggest to firearms that they bin the mentor request (see if you can find the latest advice) and offer that he does a centre fire course instead.

I'm in AVS same as you and have mentored a lad on his land, deemed suitable for Full bore.

He was given 22/17 and then told I could take him there and he use my 243 on fox and deer, compile a shooting log/ journal and then hand that in with a variation to get CF. We did this and he now have a very nice looking .260

9 hours ago, Digger79 said:

have said (Argued) to my FEO that the 22lr is Actually a more Dangerous Calibre to a New Shooter due to the Ricochet of bullet if used on wrong type of Ground

I have had this exact conversation in the past

My current feo is a stalker and I'd be surprised if he did not agree with this 

[oowee]

17 hours ago, ShootingEgg said:

I'm in AVS same as you and have mentored a lad on his land, deemed suitable for Full bore.

He was given 22/17 and then told I could take him there and he use my 243 on fox and deer, compile a shooting log/ journal and then hand that in with a variation to get CF. We did this and he now have a very nice looking .260

I have had this exact conversation in the past

My current feo is a stalker and I'd be surprised if he did not agree with this 

 

[steve_b_wales]

On 07/12/2024 at 10:43, Digger79 said:

Having done Mentoring for 223 Centerfire myself, my Opinoin being that if you have an Open Certificate for 22lr 17hmr then you are already Capable of Awareness of gun Safety, Backstop, etc.

And that a Stepup to 223 should not need  Mentoring, 

I have said (Argued) to my FEO that the 22lr is Actually a more Dangerous Calibre to a New Shooter due to the Ricochet of bullet if used on wrong type of Ground.

 

I totally agree. My mate has used a .22LR/17HMR for many years and has an 'open' ticket for both. However, as mentioned, he would not have been allowed to possess a .223 (or any other centrefire) without agreeing to being mentored. I've advised him to contact BASC for their advice.

On 07/12/2024 at 07:11, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Wales, still a few years behind the rest of the UK.

We don't pay for our prescriptions though. 

[Scully]

I’m convinced mentoring is at the whim of the licensing authority, purely implemented simply as either an **** covering exercise or a further obstacle to clear, as I know a retired serviceman who was told he would have to be mentored until his shooting org’ got in on the act. 
I always wonder who mentored the mentor, as back in my day it wasn’t a requirement. 

[ShootingEgg]

5 hours ago, oowee said:

 

I have done as asked by the AVS feo. I agree mentoring is as much use as a chocolate fireguard and there are no legal HO laws rules guidelines.. But it is something they asked of him and after an extensive conversation with the feo the agreed action was taken. So 3 months and a portfolio got him CF. Bare in mind he also has DSC1 prior to applying. 

Unfortunately we are at the mercy of what they say... As much as we begrudge it, if we say no they hold the cards. 

[steve_b_wales]

On 07/12/2024 at 07:11, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Wales, still a few years behind the rest of the UK.

But way ahead with FREE prescriptions! 

[Rim Fire]

i mentor a first time firearm holder last year it was for a 243 and .22LR he ask me to mentor him i said how long do i have to mentor you he said untill i pass my DSC 1 course which he did within 6 mths then they gave him a an open ticket dont make sence to me 

[steve_b_wales]

My friend who I am mentoring has an 'open' FAC for his .22LR and .17HMR which he's had and used for the past 7 years, but with his .223 it's a closed condition and he can only use it on land that has been passed by the relevant Chief Constable. This is going to create one big headache for him. He has to make sure the land is passed for that calibre and I can't do this despite my FAC being 'open' for all my calibre's up to my .308.