Becoming an RFD

[Dunkield]

The inconvenient truth is a lot of (not all) bad ones go out of business, and good ones continue to do well, not dissimilar to pubs in that respect.

 

I have told the story before, but I needed a new mod for my rifle, Jacksons had it on the shelf but needed me to buy it from one of their dealers.

They gave me 3 names, I called all three to see if they could help, prices to me varied wildly for the same item.

The two most expensive ones no longer exist, the third (who told me exactly how much it was costing him) is still going.

 

Since then a new RFD had opened in the area, and seems to be doing very well indeed.

[BRNDL]

I hear what you are saying but some customers need to be not so short sighted as well. I have no problem with someone going elsewhere after having spent time with a certain dealer because he has found a price elsewhere which is significantly less. Many people, however, go elsewhere to save a trifling amount of cash. I fail to see the point of that to be honest.

 

J.

 

I must agree - but to what amount of cash is "trifling"? Some have chunkier wallets than others.

It must be more than the additional cost of the RFD - RFD which can be from £25.00 +, so that is a direct saving from inception.

[Dunkield]

Where abouts was this post? Interested to have a read and can't find it!

 

http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/topic/259831-rip-off-robs/

[Livefast123]

With customers pockets being hit hard, businesses should be expecting people to bargain and look for the keenest prices. The last RFD I bought my Howa from actually matched the cheapest price I could find on the internet, even though the shop was 300 + miles away. He got a sale and some profit from the deal and I know for a fact that he is flat out with business.

 

I have experienced the 'attitude' at my local shop, the stupid thing is that it was only over a brick of .22LR, they actually hung the phone up on me when I asked them to price match a local shop. Needless to say I drive straight passed the shop now on my way to my friendly RFD to get all of my ammo, reloading supplies etc.

 

Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

[maxus77]

i always like to have a look around online for prices before making any purchase and luckily couple of my local rfds aren't too bad price wise or will try and do a deal with you (bywell, bagnells)

 

they weren't as cheap as some down south or online for my gun etc but still purchased off them because at end of the day i can walk in and leave it on the desk.

 

what i do notice is new guns seem to be keener priced down south but up north we seem to have better deals on second hand.

 

about three or four years ago i made a decision to try and support local business where possible.

[aris]

I went to my local RFD for a gun slip. Not talking big money here. Was the first time I had ever gone to that shop. Saw the price of what I wanted on his website - I was OK with the price, wanted it quickly, and also wanted to have a look at it person. I was willing to pay a small premium for that service rather than buy online elsewhere (cheaper). I was a bit dumbfounded when I walked into the shop and they wanted to charge me more in-store than what they were charging online. Their reasoning? "We charge P&P online and make a profit on that". Mhh, ok.. I wasn't going to quibble over a few pounds, but it certainly left a sour taste in my mouth.

Edited September 16, 2013 by aris

[walt1980]

Kinda noticing a few people saying newer shops are offering better customer service in general than older shops. Could this be the older generation "need" the business less? Younger are keener but also maybe more modern (Internet and price matching) than the older generation? May not be the case at all but just a thought! I know a few older people who don't need to chase work, in different trades tho to be fair, maybe there's a pattern??

[BRNDL]

Kinda noticing a few people saying newer shops are offering better customer service in general than older shops. Could this be the older generation "need" the business less? Younger are keener but also maybe more modern (Internet and price matching) than the older generation? May not be the case at all but just a thought! I know a few older people who don't need to chase work, in different trades tho to be fair, maybe there's a pattern??

I think it's down to evolution.

[walt1980]

Thinking about having change of career sometime in the near future so this is all great research for me!!! Customer service to me has always come before profit! Keep the customer and the profit will come!

[GBS]

I suppose I had better respond to this one....

 

Yes, I did get my RFD ticket. It took quite a bit of planning, paperwork and some expensive security installations as I was going to operate from home. I over-egged the security by choice though.

 

It was never designed to be a high turnover business but more a niche service providing the unusual, rare or very high quality. I enjoy searching for guns and seeking them out so it was a hobby that got a bit serious..... Obviously my overheads were very low so I was "relatively" inexpensive but this also led to my selling guns back to the trade where they could justify a larger mark-up.

 

This is all irrelevant now as I am living and working in Kenya so the whole thing is dormant!

 

GBS

[rimfire4969]

I suppose I had better respond to this one....

 

Yes, I did get my RFD ticket. It took quite a bit of planning, paperwork and some expensive security installations as I was going to operate from home. I over-egged the security by choice though.

 

It was never designed to be a high turnover business but more a niche service providing the unusual, rare or very high quality. I enjoy searching for guns and seeking them out so it was a hobby that got a bit serious..... Obviously my overheads were very low so I was "relatively" inexpensive but this also led to my selling guns back to the trade where they could justify a larger mark-up.

 

This is all irrelevant now as I am living and working in Kenya so the whole thing is dormant!

 

GBS

This has to be the oldest thread to come to life and had an ending, 5 and a bit years.

 

Good luck in Kenya.

 

Seems like the same arguments go around and around.

[mereside]

the retail industry is changing massively with internet sales and more and more will end up out of buissness with big overheads it makes sence to do things from home i see quite a few good rfds working from home offering great services and things i actually want to buy not something someone wants to sell me. niche markets are cropping up with bespoke rfd's selling older good qaulity rifles /shotguns as well as custome rifle work all at real prices not over inflated ,atb wayne

[Guest cookoff013]

i find the cartridge sales a joke anyway.

 

a local shop had changed hands, in the intermediate of swapping i had to travel across the border. first the cartridge prices were double. and with my rough calculation £400 odd pounds per 1000, for some standard 1oz shells. asking them for prices was just like a random number genorator. at this point it is actually cheaper to make them with virgin hulls and i`d still save £200 per k. thats what got me into the reloading game. i did shop elsewhwere and get shells at a competative price.

 

all the shops are locked into purchase agreements, that noone else locally can sell that brand of shells.

 

then they refused to sell me #5 shot shells. they plainly flatly refused. but they did advise me to buy there more expensive #6 shells.

 

the other fact is they sell 2nd hand guns for more than brand new guns elsewhere. what am i going to do. buy a 2nd hand gun with questionable waranty or buy a brand new gun elsewhere? its a no brainer. there is value for money, and there is just plain being robbed.

[Bewsher500]

One of the problems with the firearms business seems to be that lots of people in it seem just to be playing at the game of RFD and don't actually need to earn much from it. They set their prices very low in order to get sales. I'm not arguing that competition is bad, it isn't, but it isn't 'real' competition if the playing field isn't level.

 

One of the things which really rankles with a lot of professional RFD's is when customers come in, fondle the merchandise (which the RFD has paid for) and then order the same thing from someone else because it's a few quid cheaper because Mr Part-Timer hasn't had to put cash out for it.

that some RFD's are playing with a marked deck.

 

where does this level playing field exist?!? no market I know of

 

if they are not setting their prices for "sales" what the hell else I they doing it for? amusement value!? competition as to who can get away with the highest?

The "try it on and buy it online" phenomenon is not specific to any industry, least of all RFD's.

How many of you tried on a coat in a shop and bought it online. I sure as hell did, saved me £80. now if the coat in the shop had been £50 cheaper I would have bought it there and then. The disproportionate costs between high street and online forces people to follow the money.

If there is no added value or service factor adding to that high cost....what the hell am I doing in your shop? I can be ignored at home thanks, don't need to come into town for that!

 

RFD's make their own bed. if some of them treated people like customers and didn't rape them to make up the margins perhaps they wouldn't be resented so much.

I asked a local RFD for some .17Mach2 ammo.

"don't have any"

asked if he could order it in, no time limits or expectations, bolt it on the back of another order, no extra shipping costs, "I will even pay you in full now"

"No, can't do that sorry"

 

Now you tell me what business logic explains that decision?

not only has he lost the margin on the 1000 rounds he has lost any and all prospect of future business.

3 months later I then got bent over and anally assaulted on an RFD to RFD transfer.

£35 for less than 5 mins of pre-printed paperwork. YFW!?!?

 

I am a customer with a new toy arriving and you want to charge me £35 for opening it for me instead of asking what else I need for my new toy?! you could have me excited and in your shop. what more could a retailer want!?

Ask me about my new toy. Engage with your customer. Heaven forbid actually sell something to me instead of waiting for me to ask!!

 

Instead I have just been relieved of £35 to open a parcel, now feel violated and can't wait to get out!!

Now I totally understand the shops full of scoutsniper bullhitters and the rubbish the shop owner has to put up with.

So what!? unless they are getting in the way of actual paying customers you tolerate them and sort the buyers from the tryers.

How many of you have walked into an RFD with a new variation to be ignored and treated like just another rifle fingering chav?

 

I am becoming an RFD.

Because i want to become the next SGC and a multimillionaire? No

Because I am pig sick of the local retailers not responding to the market. I have to drive 50-60 miles round trip to buy anything! their are one or two RFD's out of town that are very good but would I choose to drive 60 miles to go their if there was somewhere in the city?

No!

I live in the middle of Edinburgh for christ's sake!! why can't I buy reloading components!?

 

I have a simple business methodology:

I will order in ANYTHING you want. (if I can't get it I will find a way to get it) you want it badly enough you should have no problem part or full paying up front.

I will do RFD to RFD transfers for free. I want customers to come to me, not **** off somewhere else because they can drive 100 miles cheaper than get a rifle sent to me!!

I won't sell 1kg of VV powder for £80 and try and keep a straight face when I know what it costs Trade!

I will deliver for a nominal charge. (a local RFD refused to deliver 2000 rounds of .22lr to a newly opened small bore range, as a result an out of town RFD snapped up the deal, probably at a loss....he has sold at least 12 target rifles to date as a result ......now do you think the first RFD should be in business or the second?)

 

I am sorry but we don't owe any businesses anything as customers. if you want our custom...earn it!

 

sorry, end of rant

[theshootist]

A friend of mine runs an RFD from home as a "part timer". He is very specialist bringing in hard to source custom rifles from the States. He makes money in an area that is too niche for the big gunshops to get involved in and where most smaller RFDs lack the expertese and the relationships in the US.

[Guest cookoff013]

where does this level playing field exist?!? no market I know of

 

if they are not setting their prices for "sales" what the hell else I they doing it for? amusement value!? competition as to who can get away with the highest?

The "try it on and buy it online" phenomenon is not specific to any industry, least of all RFD's.

How many of you tried on a coat in a shop and bought it online. I sure as hell did, saved me £80. now if the coat in the shop had been £50 cheaper I would have bought it there and then. The disproportionate costs between high street and online forces people to follow the money.

If there is no added value or service factor adding to that high cost....what the hell am I doing in your shop? I can be ignored at home thanks, don't need to come into town for that!

 

RFD's make their own bed. if some of them treated people like customers and didn't rape them to make up the margins perhaps they wouldn't be resented so much.

I asked a local RFD for some .17Mach2 ammo.

"don't have any"

asked if he could order it in, no time limits or expectations, bolt it on the back of another order, no extra shipping costs, "I will even pay you in full now"

"No, can't do that sorry"

 

Now you tell me what business logic explains that decision?

not only has he lost the margin on the 1000 rounds he has lost any and all prospect of future business.

3 months later I then got bent over and anally assaulted on an RFD to RFD transfer.

£35 for less than 5 mins of pre-printed paperwork. YFW!?!?

 

I am a customer with a new toy arriving and you want to charge me £35 for opening it for me instead of asking what else I need for my new toy?! you could have me excited and in your shop. what more could a retailer want!?

Ask me about my new toy. Engage with your customer. Heaven forbid actually sell something to me instead of waiting for me to ask!!

 

Instead I have just been relieved of £35 to open a parcel, now feel violated and can't wait to get out!!

Now I totally understand the shops full of scoutsniper bullhitters and the rubbish the shop owner has to put up with.

So what!? unless they are getting in the way of actual paying customers you tolerate them and sort the buyers from the tryers.

How many of you have walked into an RFD with a new variation to be ignored and treated like just another rifle fingering chav?

 

I am becoming an RFD.

Because i want to become the next SGC and a multimillionaire? No

Because I am pig sick of the local retailers not responding to the market. I have to drive 50-60 miles round trip to buy anything! their are one or two RFD's out of town that are very good but would I choose to drive 60 miles to go their if there was somewhere in the city?

No!

I live in the middle of Edinburgh for christ's sake!! why can't I buy reloading components!?

 

I have a simple business methodology:

I will order in ANYTHING you want. (if I can't get it I will find a way to get it) you want it badly enough you should have no problem part or full paying up front.

I will do RFD to RFD transfers for free. I want customers to come to me, not **** off somewhere else because they can drive 100 miles cheaper than get a rifle sent to me!!

I won't sell 1kg of VV powder for £80 and try and keep a straight face when I know what it costs Trade!

I will deliver for a nominal charge. (a local RFD refused to deliver 2000 rounds of .22lr to a newly opened small bore range, as a result an out of town RFD snapped up the deal, probably at a loss....he has sold at least 12 target rifles to date as a result ......now do you think the first RFD should be in business or the second?)

 

I am sorry but we don't owe any businesses anything as customers. if you want our custom...earn it!

 

sorry, end of rant

 

thats a grand post.

 

the more time you spend RFD`ing the less you spend shooting.

GOOD LUCK.

[Gunman]

I give it A year . Then you will realise that you make no money and it is costing you every time you open the door .Thats fine if you want to run a charity ,But you will have to pay up front from many suppliers , a lot wont supply unless you open an account and they wont do that unless you do a certain amount of business per year . Then there's all the over heads .alarms ,insurance ,phone bills ,rates , accountants etc. unless you are VAT registered you will get charge VAT which you can not claim back .

If you want to do so go ahead but ask the police what is required not guys on this forum ,oh and one more thing , customers ,they will come as long as you give stuff away ,be your best mate as you do so and your worst nightmare when something goes. wrong

[Bewsher500]

I give it A year . Then you will realise that you make no money and it is costing you every time you open the door .Thats fine if you want to run a charity ,But you will have to pay up front from many suppliers ,

a lot wont supply unless you open an account and they wont do that unless you do a certain amount of business per year .

Then there's all the over heads .alarms ,insurance ,phone bills ,rates , accountants etc. unless you are VAT registered you will get charge VAT which you can not claim back .

If you want to do so go ahead but ask the police what is required not guys on this forum ,oh and one more thing , customers ,they will come as long as you give stuff away ,be your best mate as you do so and your worst nightmare when something goes. wrong

This is not a retail operation

"a lot wont supply unless you open an account and they wont do that unless you do a certain amount of business per year ."

Who? I have spoken to all of the major ones and with the exception of Edgar brothers who say they want a retail premises to trade but actually wont force that if you have orders and cash buring a hole in your pocket! no-one has asked for anything.specific

Why wouldn't I have to pay up front as a new buyer? I would expect the same! credit is half the problem of the financial **** we are dealing with now!

Then there's all the over heads .

"alarms" ,£1000 up front £300 per year thereafter

"insurance" ,£250 on top of my usual

"phone bills" unlimited calls on my tariff already, and who the hell am I ringing that is going to rack up such big costs?

",rates" its not a retail/business premises , no extra costs

"accountants" I already have a business and accounts cost **** all

"etc. unless you are VAT registered you will get charge VAT which you can not claim back ". you need a better accountant fella, all your VAT applicable expenses go against VAT. I already run one business and VAT works in my favour and sits in my account for 3 months before I pay some of it ti HMRC

"If you want to do so go ahead but ask the police what is required not guys on this forum" , I am not asking and well on the way to being registered

"oh and one more thing , customers ,they will come as long as you give stuff away" customers will come because I have what they want and no other **** inside 20 miles does!

its a simple business plan, you order or carry stuff people want

as it stands I am down £1250 ish to set up Stock is not a cost it is a capital asset

at a 35-40% margin (which is what most of the stuff coming out of Hannams is at trade price) that is a gross turnover of £3125-3571k year one to break even and less than £1200 year two to cover costs

Sales of £100 a month to break even?

i do that every week on eBay selling my kids old clothes...

sorry but it does not have to be as hard as people make it sound or how it seems to be

[jamiedenny]

I suppose I had better respond to this one....

 

Yes, I did get my RFD ticket. It took quite a bit of planning, paperwork and some expensive security installations as I was going to operate from home. I over-egged the security by choice though.

 

It was never designed to be a high turnover business but more a niche service providing the unusual, rare or very high quality. I enjoy searching for guns and seeking them out so it was a hobby that got a bit serious..... Obviously my overheads were very low so I was "relatively" inexpensive but this also led to my selling guns back to the trade where they could justify a larger mark-up.

 

This is all irrelevant now as I am living and working in Kenya so the whole thing is dormant!

 

GBS

Amazing, I love the twists and turns of life !.

[Gunman]

You state " this is not a retail operation " .Well if you are selling to the public then you are retail . In all the years I have been in the gun trade ,I've seen them come and I've seen them go , you are not the first to have such plans and you wont be the last .

End of .

[jamiedenny]

Where is your shop Gunman?

+1 ?

 

I try not to be an armchair bully or provoke but you do come across as the exact reason I drive from East Sussex to Wiltshire to use the only rfd I have found to be friendly and willing (and they aren't perfect ).

[Muddy Funker]

+1 ?

 

I try not to be an armchair bully or provoke but you do come across as the exact reason I drive from East Sussex to Wiltshire to use the only rfd I have found to be friendly and willing (and they aren't perfect ).

F.A Andersons in East Grinstead?

 

Slight deviation from the topic but this gun shop and the staff are absolutely top notch.

 

Surely no need to drive to Wiltshire?

[Dunkield]

F.A Andersons in East Grinstead?

 

I thought the same when I read that post, I drove from here to them to buy a scope for silly money - seemed like a decent shop with very good prices

[-Mongrel-]

F.A Andersons in East Grinstead?

 

Slight deviation from the topic but this gun shop and the staff are absolutely top notch.

 

Surely no need to drive to Wiltshire?

Yeah, decent bunch there for sure.

[Bewsher500]

I live in Edinburgh and I have driven to F.A. Andersons!

top place

 

You state " this is not a retail operation " .Well if you are selling to the public then you are retail . In all the years I have been in the gun trade ,I've seen them come and I've seen them go , you are not the first to have such plans and you wont be the last .
End of .

Retail as in "retail outlet", shop in other words. but you knew that