Becoming an RFD

[GBS]

Dear All,

 

I am interested in becoming a part time RFD. The plan is to sell shotguns and general shooting accessories by "mail" order through a website. Of course any tranactions involving shotguns or any item requiring a license transfer would be carried out face to face.

 

Is it possible to be a RFD and only have provision on the license for shotguns?

 

How much would I need to spec up my security from the gun cabinet that I already have? Alarm? CCTV? Better safe?

 

I am sure the best person to talk to is going to be my local Firearms Officer but thought I would see if anyone here has any knowledge/past experience first.

 

Any advice greatly appreciated.

 

George

[Malc]

I know someone who is just going through the process of upgrading to Section 1 and Section 2 RFD. They have had to install physical security measures, including bars on windows (even 1st floor windows) and a monitored alarm system (Redcare). The alarm system will cost in the region of £1000 to install plus £40 per month monitoring/maintainance.

 

link to alarms http://www.its-home-security.co.uk/redcare_system.htm

[Baldrick]

You'll want to read the info provided by the Police, on page 22 onwards on this link: http://www.dorset.police.uk/pdf/Procedural...ctice_Guide.pdf

 

RFD tickets are hard to obtain - you need to have a business plan, financial forecasts and other information to convince the Police that you want to go into the business of buying and selling guns. As Malc said, the security requirements are very stringent.

 

Why don't you have a chat with your FEO and pose your (business) case to him/her?

[bob300w]

You will be expected to know the Home Office publication; "Firearms Law, Guidance to Police" , The Proof Acts, The Violent crime Reduction Act, and De-act specs backwards and word perfect, as you obviously don't, start with chapter 16 of the former, it answers all of your questions.

Part time RFD's are generally not granted, as you will read in chapter 16.

Your cabinet will not be acceptable, as has been said by malc, expect to invest at least £1K on security.

You will need proof of accounts with some of the major arms importers, most of these will not even reply to your letters unless you have an established business. If you think that it is going to be easy, phone GMK tomorrow and tell them that you wish to open an account. If they will talk to you, be prepared for them to come and inspect your premises, security, and storage facilities. I'm not a gambling man, but my bet is that you don't get past the receptionist.

If you succeed, there is a legal requisite that you will be subject to 6 monthly visits from police HQ to check your registers and number of sales, no sales, no RFD.

From the little that you have said, I think that you need to brush up on Firarms law a lot more before you even think of speaking to your FO.

Sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear, but it is factual.

[clayman]

I've held an RFD for about 15 yrs now, and its only in the last year I have become full time. Part-time RFD's exist, but you need a good reason to get one ( I ran a clayshoot and shooting hotel when I first applied).

 

The check I have been subject to is every three years, and as long as there has been activity, it has been renewed ( never had 6mth checks, maybe some areas do but not mine).

 

Until I became full time, I had a limited section 2, meaning shotguns only, and max 24 guns.

 

I have now ungraded to sect 1 with 36 gun capacity.

 

I have Brattonsound Sentinals (they have stopped making them now, however other large safes about). A good alarm system is usually required, but Redcare is not a prerequisite - other monitoring systems including 24/7 occupation can be OK. Really depends what you are storing and where.

 

Remember, as an RFD, you can only do business at your registered address, you will be removed if you sell out of the boot at a shoot. You need alternative places of business permits for each other venue you sell at. I need one for every county show, gamefair, shoot, and championship I attend.

 

If you want to sell new guns, most main distributors will only deal with you if you have a retail shop front - they don't deal with home dealers.

 

If you only want to deal a few second hand guns there's not much point in becoming an RFD. If your activity gets to a point where you SHOULD be an RFD, the police will invite you to apply because your activity level has become approriate to having one.

 

You really need to think this through carefully, and definitely have a chat with your FEO.

 

Clayman

[starlight32]

You will be expected to know the Home Office publication; "Firearms Law, Guidance to Police" , The Proof Acts, The Violent crime Reduction Act, and De-act specs backwards and word perfect, as you obviously don't, start with chapter 16 of the former, it answers all of your questions.

Part time RFD's are generally not granted, as you will read in chapter 16.

Your cabinet will not be acceptable, as has been said by malc, expect to invest at least £1K on security.

You will need proof of accounts with some of the major arms importers, most of these will not even reply to your letters unless you have an established business. If you think that it is going to be easy, phone GMK tomorrow and tell them that you wish to open an account. If they will talk to you, be prepared for them to come and inspect your premises, security, and storage facilities. I'm not a gambling man, but my bet is that you don't get past the receptionist.

If you succeed, there is a legal requisite that you will be subject to 6 monthly visits from police HQ to check your registers and number of sales, no sales, no RFD.

From the little that you have said, I think that you need to brush up on Firarms law a lot more before you even think of speaking to your FO.

Sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear, but it is factual.

 

Everyone has to start in business somewhere though which is the hard part about becoming an RFD. What you say is correct Bob, before anyone will deal with you will have them wanting to pay you a visit before they will do any business or grant any 'trade status'. The cartridge manufacturers can be even worse than the gun importers, they are naturally always cautious of the average punter trying to get cartridges on the cheap.

[bob300w]

"The check I have been subject to is every three years, and as long as there has been activity, it has been renewed ( never had 6mth checks, maybe some areas do but not mine). "

 

I hope that your FEO's boss is not reading this thread then, because;

 

16.27 In general, formal inspection visits

should be based on a three year cycle.

Each firearms dealer in the force area

should be visited, on average, at least once

per year. On each of the formal visits, the

inspection should be undertaken by two

dedicated officers (FEOs/CPOs) depending

on individual force circumstances.

 

The policy in Essex is six-monthly visits.

[GBS]

Bob, Thank-you I will get my hands on a copy of this document. This is only the beginning of my enquiries as to what I need to do/have so all comments and help greatly appreciated.

 

ClayMan, Limited Section 2 with a limit on how many guns I could hold sounds like a good option.

 

Are there limitations on buying and selling guns whilst holding only a SGC? I am not intending to deal with new guns at the moment, more comission sales and buying at auction, refurbishing as necessary and then selling on. My real interest lies with old english guns, especially quirkier mechanisms. I do not envisage shifting more than a dozen guns per year and am intending on building a website to advertise and probably also use guntrader/uk gun auction.

 

Thanks for all comments,

 

George

Edited April 4, 2008 by georgieB

[al4x]

by the sounds of it you could operate at that level just on your existing ticket and avoid a lot of the complexities. If you've a partner then your ability to hold guns would be doubled and you could use your existing storage plus another cabinet, though they may well request a decent house alarm. there are no limits to how many guns you buy and sell as long as you don't accumulate too many at one time

[JABB]

Holy thread resurrection batman!

Did you get any further with the RFD?

[rimfire4969]

That has to be about the oldest yet. At least you know you have done it.

[JonathanL]

You will be expected to know the Home Office publication; "Firearms Law, Guidance to Police" , The Proof Acts, The Violent crime Reduction Act, and De-act specs backwards and word perfect, as you obviously don't, start with chapter 16 of the former, it answers all of your questions.

 

No you don't. You need to be reasonably clued up but you don't need to border on being a specialist firearms barrister.

Part time RFD's are generally not granted, as you will read in chapter 16.

 

Depends what you mean by 'part-time'. The requirement is that you intend to engage as an RFD to a 'substantial extent'. That does not necessarily equate to part-time.

Your cabinet will not be acceptable, as has been said by malc, expect to invest at least £1K on security.

 

No reason why it should not be. Many RFD's keep their stock in regular gun cabinets amongst other things.

You will need proof of accounts with some of the major arms importers, most of these will not even reply to your letters unless you have an established business.

 

You do not need proff of accounts. Most suppliers won't even give you an account or let you see their price lists untill you have an RFD.

If you succeed, there is a legal requisite that you will be subject to 6 monthly visits from police HQ to check your registers and number of sales, no sales, no RFD.

 

Act and section?

From the little that you have said, I think that you need to brush up on Firarms law a lot more before you even think of speaking to your FO.

Sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear, but it is factual.

 

Or not, as the case may be.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

Holy thread resurrection batman!

Did you get any further with the RFD?

 

Bloody hell. Never even noticed the date!

 

J.

[Gunman]

Just what the trade needs ! Another part time dealer undercutting those of us who try to make a living with proper premises ,business rates and all . Do any of you wonder why gun shops are closing all over ?

[jamiedenny]

Just what the trade needs ! Another part time dealer undercutting those of us who try to make a living with proper premises ,business rates and all . Do any of you wonder why gun shops are closing all over ?

Is it because try are over priced, rude, out of date and always amaze me with their general attitude towards their paying customers ?. I'm sure you are one of the good ones and not all are like my experience on Kent but competition is a good thing. I competitor to me opened up just down the road two weeks ago. I now have to get up every morning and try harder. Its helped remind me that there is always something I can do better which is only going to be good news for me and my clients.

 

Well done to the chap for getting out there and doing something when so many expect the work to come to them !.

[Bewsher500]

Just what the trade needs ! Another part time dealer undercutting those of us who try to make a living with proper premises ,business rates and all . Do any of you wonder why gun shops are closing all over ?

 

Maybe it is the attitude that many of them they appear to have and the rising costs of products (and more importantly margins)

If "proper premises" (and by this I assume you mean "high street/retail" are the problems to running a business in profit then you don;t need to be an accountant to tell you that you should move!

 

Margins on reloading components are 40% (and given the recent issues with US supply appear to be increasing to 60-70% £80 for a kg of powder!?!?!?)

Margins of clothing is up around the 2-300%

if your volumes are not high enough to justify the cost of a shop then the business plan is flawed.

 

don't blame those that seek to take the initiative and start a business that has legs.

 

And "YES" it is exactly what "we" need. value for money and no attitude!!

 

gaining RFD status is not that "Hard"

it takes time and money, lots of box checking and giving the Police the answers they need to hear.

[JonathanL]

One of the problems with the firearms business seems to be that lots of people in it seem just to be playing at the game of RFD and don't actually need to earn much from it. They set their prices very low in order to get sales. I'm not arguing that competition is bad, it isn't, but it isn't 'real' competition if the playing field isn't level.

 

One of the things which really rankles with a lot of professional RFD's is when customers come in, fondle the merchandise (which the RFD has paid for) and then order the same thing from someone else because it's a few quid cheaper because Mr Part-Timer hasn't had to put cash out for it.

 

I'm not suggesting that it should be made harder to become an RFD, far from it. However, it needs to be realised that some RFD's are playing with a marked deck.

 

J.

[Gunman]

Exactly . Spend 30 or 40 minutes with a customer [often more ] tell him all he asks .give advice let him look .Last you see of him till he asks can you do a dealer transfer for him . Answer NO .

Edited September 16, 2013 by Gunman

[karpman]

 

Exactly . Spend 30 or 40 minutes with a customer [often more ] tell him all he asks .give advice let him look .Last you see of him till he asks can you do a dealer transfer for him . Answer NO .

We have the same with used car sales, test drive kick the tyres and go buy private. 2 weeks later they want to know why the engine management light is on lol.

 

You get time wasters in most retail I should imagine. But we alienate no one as there's always money to be made somewhere down the line.

 

Karpman

[BRNDL]

The goal posts are moving...and RFD need to position themselves well. With many back street online retailers chipping away at the the industries worth competition for competitive prices is a must. I for one would come for a chat and try a gun from you. If I found one considerably better value I would buy that...but because YOU were a decent chap and dedicated time and knowledge to me I would be back for 1000 carts every 2 months, most likely some accessories and point others in the same direction.

 

 

Do not be so short sighted...

 

I spent over an hour in Mcevoys talking with their staff...in the end I purchased from Bamfords solely on price. But I went back that same week and spent £350.00

Edited September 16, 2013 by BRNDL

[Dunkield]

Last you see of him till he asks can you do a dealer transfer for him . Answer NO .

 

There was a thread about this just recently...

[Marki]

Gunman, please tell me where your shop is, it'll stop me wasting time visiting.

My local RFD is more than happy to sit and talk, even when I buy nothing. The thing is, I'll always go back there when I do want something even if I can get it a bit cheaper elsewhere.

[walt1980]

There was a thread about this just recently...

Where abouts was this post? Interested to have a read and can't find it!

[BRNDL]

Diversify your business. The likelihood is gunman wont take much notice and continue on his current tack. That is fine and 100% his own choice, just bothers me slightly when a complaint about customers is posted on a thread such as this for having a competitive nature and sourcing the best deal for them at the time of purchase.

Edited September 16, 2013 by BRNDL

[aris]

Diversify your business. The likelihood is gunman wont take much notice and continue on his current tack. That is fine and 100% his own choice, just bothers me slightly when a complaint about customers is posted on a thread such as this for having a competitive nature and sourcing the best deal for them at the time of purchase.

 

Very well said - and not just for RFD's. Too many businesses think the world sits still (or worse, revolves around them). If business is stagnating or going down, then you need to change, because the world isn't going to change for you.