BASC New Centre Appeal

[Dave-G]

Ive just been on SACS website and they state they they are there to help Scottish and NI interests. Lets face it ,everyone thats ran to them because of a letter are for £40 donation are rather downsizing dont you think. Wake up, put your toys back in your prams and smell the bacon. BASC is the best known and most popular organisation in the UK. We all need cloat behind us like that.

 

A few have "ran" to SACS because they have declared legal cover as part of the membership package - which also applies in England, there was a thread about this running just before you joined. I'd suggest that very few have moved over simply because ot the £40 word. Look at it this way maybe - they might otherwise have felt that a donation of £100 would be in order?

[Chard]

I can only say (as a non-member) that I would have thought they could rent some rather swish office space instead of having an all-singing, all-dancing meeeeeeja centre

 

Sounds a lot of dosh to me. These kind of posh headquarters are OK for multi-million pound highly profitable corporations, but I would have thought a meeeeeja centre could be just as effective in rented offices, with a few blokes with telephones and PCs.

 

Maybe I'm over-simplifying things, maybe meeeeeja centres work better if they cost £750,000

 

Maybe they don't

[POW!]

As a newcomer to this forum I have kept out of the debate till now , Having just spent half an hour rereading it , > Qualified or not , I feel my view a now worth airing !

 

As others here I started shooting before school age , beelng born on Wirral Wildfowling was the local sport , Shooting with the Heswall and Neston boys was competitive ,

 

In the 60s I joined WAGBI , Later BASC , Again as others a LOVE / HATE affair , , 20 years ag [ish]

 

I contacted BASC ,when Young shots were being formed , Stella Reece , who was overseeong , camr to my Farm to see if we could support kids , regards Airgun and safety days , , Unfortunately A host af shooting incidents happened at the time [ Dunblane ,etc] >>>>>

 

 

I gave up membership a few years ago , as I, like most only joined for insurance cover , mainly because of the political stance at the time , In hindsight . I probably got it wrong ,they have along with the CLA , fought well for us shooters ,

 

I will again rejopin , BUT not as yet contribute towards the latest £40 effort ,

 

 

As a long tine "Countryman ,and Shooter, I belive if WE as a body can get youungsters away from the electronic devices and BACK into Shooting and Country Sports , The £750K would be better spent , NOT ,only for ourselves but for society in general ,

 

 

SO . lets see Some of this "MONEY " invested in Landowners like myself , who are willing to "REGENERATE " Shooting as a way of life , That Guns NEED respect , as does Wildlife , and your fellow man , YES!!!!!!! Back to BAS iCs even i ff Its with BASC or not ,

 

If this sounds like I am touting for the money then you have NO idea the setting up INSURANCE WISE is , it has to be Via an outlet like BASC , ,

 

 

I await the "Brick bats" !!! And as I say to many , " CULLING not KILLING!! POW!

[auto culto]

As most of you probably know I'm not a member of basc but I still feel that i have a right to comment. Although this letter has been very poorly written ( I've read a friends ) I can see the reasoning behind needing a communication building in today's climate. This is definitely the way forward for defending the shooting community and as such I will be sending in a donation towards this build as only good can come from this. Just because I disagree with basc insurance issues does not mean I'm the enemy or supporting the "other team". If me being a non member is willing to do this then I cant honestly see what all the fuss is about. I don't earn much and struggle to pay for ammo most the time but that is no real excuses for not backing up something as important as this could turn out to be.

[Harnser]

It just amazes me how a couple of people can post on here and cause such bad feeling and argument amongest B.A.S.C members . I again say bog off B.A.S.C. knockers and fester elsewere . Well done to David basc ,see im off David ,iam with you i wont allow these toads to slag off B.A.S.C. Harnser .

[Dunkield]

This still rates as one of the most bizarre threads I have read on this forum, and that is saying something

[cubix]

People miss the point. This comms centre is not just functional - it's a big brash bold confident statement that we are alive and well and ready to fight for our rights to shoot.

 

People who complain about the cost, tone of the letter etc you are going to get shooting banned by your cynicism - it's not buying a building it's buying the future, can you put a price on that?

 

A letter lands on the door mat - let crank up the BASC HATRED to maximum and let rip! A letter for pete's sake!

 

There is more to see beyond the end of your nose, but if you hate the BASC that's as far as you want to look.

[Chard]

it's not buying a building it's buying the future, can you put a price on that?

 

These are words. You'd make a good politician

 

At the end of the day, it's buying a building. The question as I see it is "Would the job be done better because the building cost £750,000?" Or could it be done just as well in an office costing a couple of grand a year (or whatever offices cost to rent)

[Flashman]

David BASC,

Far be it from me, who enjoys a dose of childish name-calling as much as the next man, to offer a calming opinion, but let it go.

Some people love to moan, in this case there's a fixation with this letter. Next time it will be increased subs, changing the logo, sponsorship, etc.

My bet is most people don't really care about the letter, some will complain, fewer will contribute.

In passing, what must it be like to live with somebody who throws a pink fit over a letter asking for a donation to an organisation who supports what they enjoy doing?

[cubix]

I suppose the communication side could be done from any old office.

 

The symbolism of our presence and success could not. It's the symbolism and message it sends that is important. The media centre is shooters changing up a gear in the sophistication of their strategy.

 

I know how I'd feel if LACS got their act together enough to open a 3/4 million quid media centre.

I'd be well worried. For now I'm pleased they can only afford to run their thing from any old office.

 

Edit : our presence and public awareness are the key to the future. You dont get that from a portacabin.

Edited November 18, 2008 by cubix

[Glenshooter]

At the end of the day, it's buying a building. The question as I see it is "Would the job be done better because the building cost £750,000?" Or could it be done just as well in an office costing a couple of grand a year (or whatever offices cost to rent)

My day job is marketing and ‘communications / PR’ is a large part of what I do in an industry with similar issues to what faces shooting. There are 2 issues I have a comment on –

1) If we are serious about preserving shooting, we have to be professional. Professional in this context is not just about what we feel, it is about convincing others. We have to plan and implement in order to convince others who have different pressures and agendas. It can take an enormous amount of time, money and effort to change opinions but when the brown stuff hits the fan, it can be money very well spent.

I spend a shed load of money on this part of my business and it is hard to prove a positive return on investment. But when it works, it is amazingly effective and a great return on investment. But, if it isn’t properly done, it will fail and simply waste money. The building will not in itself make the arguments but to me it shows a professionalism that we must have otherwise our sport will be at a disadvantage from the well-organised antis. Remember that one of our main antagonists is the wife of a major labour politician. I fully support a building like this which seems to be appropriate to the need.

 

2) When hunting was under pressure, the hunting lobby, (which I fully supported although not a hunter,) talked about the loss of money to the rural economy and talked up the impact as they would and of course, they should. Briefing MPs or key decision makers on issues like this is a lot less convincing in a small office / portakabin than a purpose build office that gives an image in addition to the spoken arguments that we are serious. This is perhaps hard to believe if you haven’t experienced it but (if you can/will) believe me, I can promise that it is really important to be consistent in messages and image. There is a synergy between the two and if we don't cover all aspects of the 'communication mix', we will have a less certain future in our sport.

 

Shooting is not widely understood by non shooters. Shooters are a small part of the voting population. Many politicians (not all) are, unlike the sterotype, reasonable people and are open to decent arguments.

 

We have to put those arguments forward in a professional manner.

 

So when someone hears that a gun has been misused or whatever, they realise it is a criminal that has done it, not a shooter from the most law abiding and responsible section of this country.

[gundawg66]

They want a modern and up to date purpose built building that says the sport is a modern one practised by inderviduales from all walks of life. Not the old percieved view of ultra rich old men. The sport is misunderstood by so many and the last time they heard or saw anything about shooting was on the news and another killing. When I told my friends that I was applying for a SGC it sparked the odd discussion. Shooting and field sports in general are being attacked from all angles and BASC wants its finger on the pulse.

Im like auto culto I cant afford to go shooting every day and will probably not be able to go once a week most of the year but the BASC just want to ensure that I can go when I want and can afford to go. They will get the £750,000 from all size of donations from supporters that believe as most members do that it is a necessary way forward.

[auto culto]

My day job is marketing and ‘communications / PR’ is a large part of what I do in an industry with similar issues to what faces shooting. There are 2 issues I have a comment on –

1) If we are serious about preserving shooting, we have to be professional. Professional in this context is not just about what we feel, it is about convincing others. We have to plan and implement in order to convince others who have different pressures and agendas. It can take an enormous amount of time, money and effort to change opinions but when the brown stuff hits the fan, it can be money very well spent.

I spend a shed load of money on this part of my business and it is hard to prove a positive return on investment. But when it works, it is amazingly effective and a great return on investment. But, if it isn’t properly done, it will fail and simply waste money. The building will not in itself make the arguments but to me it shows a professionalism that we must have otherwise our sport will be at a disadvantage from the well-organised antis. Remember that one of our main antagonists is the wife of a major labour politician. I fully support a building like this which seems to be appropriate to the need.

 

2) When hunting was under pressure, the hunting lobby, (which I fully supported although not a hunter,) talked about the loss of money to the rural economy and talked up the impact as they would and of course, they should. Briefing MPs or key decision makers on issues like this is a lot less convincing in a small office / portakabin than a purpose build office that gives an image in addition to the spoken arguments that we are serious. This is perhaps hard to believe if you haven’t experienced it but (if you can/will) believe me, I can promise that it is really important to be consistent in messages and image. There is a synergy between the two and if we don't cover all aspects of the 'communication mix', we will have a less certain future in our sport.

 

Shooting is not widely understood by non shooters. Shooters are a small part of the voting population. Many politicians (not all) are, unlike the sterotype, reasonable people and are open to decent arguments.

 

We have to put those arguments forward in a professional manner.

 

So when someone hears that a gun has been misused or whatever, they realise it is a criminal that has done it, not a shooter from the most law abiding and responsible section of this country.

 

couldn't have put it better myself. You said everything i failed to say. Just goes to show you that pen pushers are effective

[Mr Potter]

Fellow PW Members,

 

Your not going to believe this, I received a letter today from a very well known (a household name) children's charity asking me to send them the sum of £2 every month, thats right, EVERY MONTH!!! Not only have they got the effrontery to name the sum of money, they then twist the dagger and even tell me how often they want it.

I was so hurt by this outrageous demand I had to sit down for a minute to gather my thoughts and decide what to do.

Finally, after re-reading this thread, came up with the only sensible course of action; Sever all links with this organization, write some vitriolic letters and post them on the internet, oh and for good measure If I ever get the chance to be cruel to a child I'll probably take it.

 

A Mr. Very Very Angry Potter.

 

PS I forgot to mention, I can't afford £40 for the BASC appeal so I'll just buy £25 worth of raffle tickets (BASC get £25 and I get a 1 in a million chance of winning a gun = all parties satisfied)

[sirusman]

Blue peter badge on its way

[Chard]

Briefing MPs or key decision makers on issues like this is a lot less convincing in a small office / portakabin than a purpose build office that gives an image

 

But there's a difference between scratching your **** and tearing it

 

I don't recall suggesting a Portakabin. I'm sure there must be some very prestigious office space to rent somewhere.

[David BASC]

Yes there is office space to rent in Chester and Wrexham area – but the Communications Center is not just office space, it will have Radio recording / TV studio facilities, design studio facilities and so on.

 

It is also in the best interest for the business of the Association to keep the three main divisions of BASC, Communications, Business & Finance and Operations on the same site

 

Also, renting is just dead money – we will be beholden to the landlord and could be asked to quit- then where would we be?

 

If we own it then the Association controls its own destiny.

[Pinkfooty]

Yes there is office space to rent in Chester and Wrexham area – but the Communications Center is not just office space, it will have Radio recording / TV studio facilities, design studio facilities and so on.

 

It is also in the best interest for the business of the Association to keep the three main divisions of BASC, Communications, Business & Finance and Operations on the same site

 

Also, renting is just dead money – we will be beholden to the landlord and could be asked to quit- then where would we be?

 

If we own it then the Association controls its own destiny.

 

Plus, going back to a point I made earlier - rent is not only "dead money", it is money that would have to be paid out, year after year, financed from members' subscriptions.

 

Why can't people just rejoice that WAGBI/BASC has had 100 hugely successful years of serving sporting shooting and is now, by means of a Centenary Appeal, planning to set itself up to provide equally good service for the next 100 years.

Edited November 18, 2008 by Pinkfooty

[gundawg66]

You said it mr potter. Good luck in the raffle

Edited November 18, 2008 by gundawg66

[Dunkield]

Your not going to believe this, I received a letter today from a very well known (a household name) children's charity asking me to send them the sum of £2 every month, thats right, EVERY MONTH!!! Not only have they got the effrontery to name the sum of money, they then twist the dagger and even tell me how often they want it.

Mr Potter, we feel your pain, that is absolutely disgusting, do these people think money grows on trees or what?

I suggest we start another 10 page thread right away.

I hope you have backed this up with a letter to Watchdog and your local MP?

[al4x]

Yes there is office space to rent in Chester and Wrexham area – but the Communications Center is not just office space, it will have Radio recording / TV studio facilities, design studio facilities and so on.

 

It is also in the best interest for the business of the Association to keep the three main divisions of BASC, Communications, Business & Finance and Operations on the same site

 

Also, renting is just dead money – we will be beholden to the landlord and could be asked to quit- then where would we be?

 

If we own it then the Association controls its own destiny.

 

you would have to go a little further to have radio recording and TV facilities but certainly no further than Manchester or Liverpool, plus renting facilities means someone else pays to update them / lease the equipment and having a brother in law who installs editing equipment its definitely not simple to use or maintain.

 

On the other hand if its just the justification for newer more prestigious office space in the location you want then I can see the attraction

[David BASC]

Trust me all options have been fully reviewed. Hiring editing facilities and radio facilities are fine when you can plan well in advance, not so convenient when you suddenly need them in an emergency. Plus if you are going to use them on a regular basis it is better to have full control – I am sure your brother in law will agree.

 

As to maintaining and updating, yes there will be an on-going cost as there is with all technology

 

I say again as others have said, this is nothing to do with a few staff wanting better offices and frankly the accusation is wearing a little thin.

 

David

[Peter De La Mare]

Sent £50 in for the raffle.

 

I really, really, want that Beretta Jubilee.

[dazza]

Sent £50 in for the raffle.

 

I really, really, want that Beretta Jubilee.

 

You can't have it I'm going to win it

[radio1ham]

well i guess all those that donate their hard earned cash will they have a share in the building ??

i got nothing against the basc but maybe you could of asked for any donation that folk could afford as i think that may of got a better response and then folk may of been more supportive to the cause instead of asking for 40 quid out of the blue

ive read a lot of negative and possitive posts regarding this topic