BASC New Centre Appeal

[Harnser]

If they have got to have this media centre ,then whats wrong with a porta cabin .After all half the kids in this country have been educated in one . Dont like the B.A.S.C. bashers ,just for the sake of it brigade . But swifty i think you have gone to far on this one . Harnser .

Edited November 6, 2008 by Harnser

[becassier]

I feel sure that all the BASC staff have already contributed from their own inflated salaries.

 

I would be very surprised to hear any different.

 

 

Becassier

[Hunter2]

BASC

 

I received the letter and thought Hang on a minute, if the basc are going to rely on donations to make this super state of the art communication centre, why not simply put the subscription up, that way is almost a structured exercise.

 

Two problems in putting the fees up though, one it will turn people away from the BASC and ones that support the effort will of course pay the higher price.

 

The money they spent sending out the letter, would it of not been better to include it in the BASC Magazine?

 

Although I am a supporter of the BASC, its does need professional people to run the business and in doing so that costs money.

 

What I mean is how much do you get out of bed for?

 

Would it surprise you all to know that most charities have a CEO or Director on over £50k a year? These are professional people that have the skills and knowledge of running the large and complex business.

 

 

Yes, I would like to support the BASC more however I think that they should look at how to achieve this funding going forward.

 

Maybe ask the members?

 

Turning people off by sending the letter out in the manner that asks for money in the current climate maybe not the best that could have happened but if you are a fly on the wall at the BASC how much money has it generated. (A few thousand I would expect)

The real supporters would have no hesitation of sending what they can.

 

At the end of the day we all have an invested interest with if you hold a sgc or fac,

And other concerns about other areas the BASC and what they stand for.

 

Are they not the loudest voice!

 

BASC v Others

 

Come on guys if it’s just insurance you are after go with someone else.its that simple if money is the issue.

You pay your money and makes your choice.

 

I do think that maybe it could be time for the Basc to just look at this one aspect how many people would they get if they just offered Insurance, as well as the full blown all singing all dancing sub, better still why not look at a bronze, silver and gold subs interesting thought! (Cater for all I say)

 

Should the day come that I need the help and advice that the BASC have included I will be the first one on the phone asking for them to come up with the commitment of membership.

 

Increase the fee I will still pay it… why may you ask, it’s the loudest voice

 

Oh and please can I get a discount on my DSC 1 Next year…lol

 

Derek

No need to reply unless you are from the BASC with my discounted DSC1 & 2

[pavman]

Edit to add I have just opend new edition of BASC mag to find a Christmas gun draw with 4 guns on offer and another donation request (but not for the comms center) and an entry will be made for every £1 you donate, unlike the comms centre appeal with no prize, so work out which one you wish to support!

 

Comment invited from David

 

Hunter I am not BASC so sorry cant help with the reduction

 

however you raise several valid points about the manner of the request and perhaps associated cost, I have commented in the past on what I see as a waste of members funds by BASC sending reams of paper and postage costs when dealing with multi subscriptions, this is when you pay your subs with more than one affiliated club or syndicate etc and then claim a refund for the over subscription.

 

I received three membership cards and all associated paperwork and then reclaimed two subs, had I been able to pay via direct debit ( I note you can make an appeal donation by DD) just one annual subs and all the affiliated clubs I am a member of could easily see my subs where up to date that may save a tidy sum that could be put to good use (new comms center) when you consider just how many BASC members that must apply to, I would be interested to know the total amount repaid by BASC in such circumstance each year as it would indicate a possible means of savings in both postage, paper and man hours to carry out the exercise, even if its not as widespread as I envisage any cutting of red tape and or modernisation must surely help make subs go further.

 

I am in general a very keen supporter of BASC and my personal experience is they have always been very helpful and very quick to assist,

 

an interesting fact in a recent mag was the make up of membership has changed over the years with rough shooters now making up a major number of membership, in my experience this type of member is perhaps most likely to be your average honest working chap who enjoys getting out for a shot at weekends and perhaps does not enjoy the privilege of being able to afford expensive shooting and therefore an £40 additional contribution which makes the suggested requested a tad cheeky to my mind.

 

That said I will be sending a modest donation and would say if anyone can do likewise we are investing in our own future of the sport and to my mind the safest hands are that of BASC

Edited November 7, 2008 by pavman

[David BASC]

Dear all,

 

Thank you very much for your comments, especially the ones from BASC members, this gives me some very good feedback.

 

I won’t pass comments on the posts by those who are very obviously anti BASC - you are of course welcome to your opinion but I see no merit in turning what is a very important thread into a slanging match.

 

I will pass the comments onto my colleague Nick - who is in change of all fundraising and the author of this appeal.

 

The case for the new communication centre is sound and is very much supported by the elected members of BASC Council, I appreciate that times are hard and indeed may well get harder.

 

But please remember that this is also a very good time to get building work done as there will probably not be a less expensive time to undertake a capital build such as this. Also we must not slack off in our work to maintain our key objectives:

 

A strong and unified voice for shooting

All-party backing for shooting

Balanced comment in the media

Continuing opportunity to go shooting

High standards

 

I am truly sorry if anyone has been upset or in any way offended by this letter.

 

Thank you very much for your feedback guys it is very welcome indeed.

 

Very best wishes

[andovian]

I think its an unfair comment that you have made davidbasc I dont think anyone on here is/was anti basc up until the point where this begging letter went out! you can read into the comments whatever you want but the long and the short of it is that the people who will benefit from this new building is the people who have voted to have it built! what is the point of just passing on all of the nice comments? arent the basc listening to what its members are saying? obviously the majority are opposed to the idea

 

the same objectives could have been met and not cost a fraction of what you are saying it will cost to build this new centre by finding existing premises

[cubix]

The case for the new communication centre is sound and is very much supported by the elected members of BASC Council, I appreciate that times are hard and indeed may well get harder.

 

I note this is a communication and not an administration centre.

 

The antis have their communication strategy and channels well practised established. We do not.

 

In the 21st century, communication is a subtle and sophisticated business - there are no quick fixes, and shouting your message does not get you heard above the noise.

 

The BASC deciding to centre their strategy around communication is a response which shows a measure of understanding of the issues we as shooters face, and the future we will face if we do not get our message across strongly. I don't see NGO, SGA etc doing anything on this scale.

 

This is not just a building, it's could either be the last line of defence for us, or the bastion from where we begin the fight back against those who want to tell us the values we should have and how to live our lives.

 

BASC bashing - who cares whether you can get insurance 20 quid cheaper elsewhere, or that rich people join it, or its subs cost the same as a night out? I stay a member because they have some serious political clout and, I do believe, the stomach for the fight to come - the police listen to them, landowners listen to them, RSPCA listen to them, govt listens to them. I listen to them.

 

I am grateful they are there because I'm sure that if they weren't then all we'd be allowed to do is shoot 5 ftlbs air rifles at paper targets in approved ranges.

 

As for rich fat cats running the BASC - perhaps they do, I don't know any of them, but if they are then that's fine by me. Us working classes don't get listened to by govt. Perhaps the rich landowners, freemasons, barristers and Eton old boys do. I do not share their backgrounds - but we share a common interest and a common enemy.

[David BASC]

Andovian,

 

Please accept my apologies if it sounded like I was saying the members comments were anti BASC - far from it. I take the comments made by the members very seriously indeed, and welcome the fact you are willing to make these comments- I only wish more members would contact BASC directly , as there is always a chance I will miss posts on forums.

 

I was referring to some people who posted where were very evidently NOT BASC members and were making, in my opinion, silly and childish comments about BASC and making up new names out of out initials- come on this is playground stuff!

 

David

[MC]

I still haven't got my letter so I haven't a clue what you are going on about.

[Markio]

...they couldent just ask for a couple of quid, where did 40 come from,

 

Quite, i thought that was a bit odd, rather than just ask for some extra help. I thought it was bloody cheeky to send a begging letter AND actually put a figure down!

 

I don't have an opinion of whether this media centre is worth while, i don't have any experience of the organisation so it wouldn't be fair to comment. I joined BASC for the insurance and also in the hope that they are our best bet for keeping shooting sports alive, i also hoped that my and members subs would be assistance enough in achieving that.

[Baldrick]

David,

 

If the BASC increased subs to include a donation towards the build, but also introduced quarterly/monthly Direct Debit, you might find the reception more positive.

 

I for one would pay the £40 if it was on this basis. I firmly agree that a media centre is needed. Anything to defeat the disgusting Guardian-reading brigade.

 

Balders

[Dead-Eyed Duck]

I've been a BASC member ever since I started shooting, and the Firearms Department have been hugely helpful to me in the past.

 

As far as I am concerned they do an invaluable job.

 

I think that part of their problem is image.......

 

I have been a salesman for many years, and if I turned up in a Rolls Royce then my customers would think 'I am paying for that'.

 

So, having a look at the sumptuous premises at Marford Mill, then I am paying for that.....

 

I do appreciate that BASC have to 'entertain' guests who would be be put off by going to a portacabin (yes, image does matter), but the debate of course is where to draw the line.

 

Asking for £40 in a time of financial crisis was bound to draw some flack, and doing it by separate letter with the additional costs of postage was bordering on stupidity.....

 

Ah well, we all have to learn the hard facts of life, and maybe the persons at BASC that thought this one up will now have time to ponder.

 

Don

[becassier]

David,

 

I think you assume an awful lot, and we have gone into this before you and I. It appears to me that your assumption is that if one is not a BASC member then he or she is against it. Not necessarily the case!

 

Many of us here simply want to point out that your organisation is not the be all and end all.

 

It is simply one of many organisations working for a particular aspect of country sports. In the case of BASC it is purely shooting. CAI and SACS offer support for all country sports and insurance for members involved in not just shooting sports.

 

BASC may, as you are required to say as a paid employee of that organisation, be one of the better organisations. It may as some have pointed out on this forum, have over-paid staff, it may even have too many staff. Only time will tell how long it will continue to survive when it depends upon inflated membership fees for its narrow remit, and when it continues to make appeals like this one.

 

I actually think it will survive albeit as a much changed organisation in an ecomomic climate that makes people look closer at their prioroties.

 

 

Becassier

Edited November 7, 2008 by becassier

[andovian]

I've been a BASC member ever since I started shooting, and the Firearms Department have been hugely helpful to me in the past.

 

As far as I am concerned they do an invaluable job.

 

I think that part of their problem is image.......

 

I have been a salesman for many years, and if I turned up in a Rolls Royce then my customers would think 'I am paying for that'.

 

So, having a look at the sumptuous premises at Marford Mill, then I am paying for that.....

 

I do appreciate that BASC have to 'entertain' guests who would be be put off by going to a portacabin (yes, image does matter), but the debate of course is where to draw the line.

 

Asking for £40 in a time of financial crisis was bound to draw some flack, and doing it by separate letter with the additional costs of postage was bordering on stupidity.....

 

Ah well, we all have to learn the hard facts of life, and maybe the persons at BASC that thought this one up will now have time to ponder.

 

Don

just for 2nd class stamps NOT including printing/paper etc comes to a a staggering £47,360 pounds going out to 128,000 members

thats a lot of forty quids before you start ! Nick of BASC you have a lot to answer for!!! (and so does anyone else that approved his idea)

[becassier]

Careful guys.

 

This is another topic that could be closed down very easily!

 

 

 

Becassier

[andovian]

Careful guys.

 

This is another topic that could be closed down very easily!

 

 

 

Becassier

why? its a sensible discussion

[David BASC]

Phased DD is on the cards but I doubt it will come in until 2010

 

Not all members were written to so that is why some will not have had a letter.

 

Thank you for your feedback about the way the letter was written, I understand what you say, and again can only say sorry if it caused offence. Live and learn as you say!

 

The build will have to be paid in part out of existing funds in the first place with a strategy to replace those funds as soon as possible. Sensible I think.

 

Yes subs will probably go up anyway – regardless of the build. Remember that we have a strategy of instead of keeping subs at a fixed rate for 2-3 years (like we used to) and then hitting members with a big hike, Council decided some years ago that there would be an inflation based rise each year. I remember the last time we had a big hike of £10 in one year questions were (rightly) asked at the AGM by members and it was based not least be the grass roots feedback that Council took the decision for regular rises. The topic had not come back to AGM since, but of course it may do – nothing to stop it.

 

Image is important and so is having the technological advantage over you enemy- and by enemy I do not just mean the antis – I mean also the ‘ignorance’ of the general public. We know that legitimate shooting is safe, well run, a benefit to the UK and no threat to anyone – this is a key message that MUST get across to the public. If the public see a threat this will have a big sway on political opinion as well – and we know where that can lead.

 

We MUST not let shooting come under threat due to us (the whole shooting community) failing to get the real message across- the Communication Centre that BASC is going to build is not there just for the benefit of BASC or the people that will work in it – the benefit is aimed at ALL who go shooting – BASC members or not..

 

No I do not think that everyone who is not a BASC member is anti BASC, of course they are not, and I chat to many of them on this forum, on other forums, at shows, evens and generally out and about. But I do think that silly name calling and puerile, deliberate provocative statements have no place on a forum like this. You may disagree and of course we are all entitled to our opinion.

 

BASC is a single focus organization we concentrate on shooting. All the money we spend is on shooting. Are we the best shooting organization, I think so,. Is this arrogant? You may think so but I can assure you that if I thought there was a better shooting organization out there I would offer them my services (agreed may be no one else would want me!) – I have only ever worked for what I consider to be the top business or organization in the markets I have operated in – not always the most popular, and certainly not always the best payers –but always what I thought were the best – that’s me.

 

Please remember, that as the largest shooting organization in the UK (not taking anything away from the others) if we fail in achieving our 5 key objectives – shooting will very probably be allot worse off- not just for BASC members, but for the other 500,000 certificate holders who are not members as well.

 

David

[dazza]

David,

 

I think you assume an awful lot, and we have gone into this before you and I. It appears to me that your assumption is that if one is not a BASC member then he or she is against it. Not necessarily the case!

 

Many of us here simply want to point out that your organisation is not the be all and end all.

 

It is simply one of many organisations working for a particular aspect of country sports. In the case of BASC it is purely shooting. CAI and SACS offer support for all country sports and insurance for members involved in not just shooting sports.

 

BASC may, as you are required to say as a paid employee of that organisation, be one of the better organisations. It may as some have pointed out on this forum, have over-paid staff, it may even have too many staff. Only time will tell how long it will continue to survive when it depends upon inflated membership fees for its narrow remit, and when it continues to make appeals like this one.

 

I actually think it will survive albeit as a much changed organisation in an ecomomic climate that makes people look closer at their prioroties.

 

 

Becassier

 

 

Could you give me a brief outline of SACS current agenda in NI? What plans have they for the future? I was talking to a Firearms Licensing Manager in Lisnasharragh today and he said the only SACS he knew off where the one you put spuds in.

[Glenshooter]

Thankfully we have an organisation like the BASC and I am very happy to support the appeal with £40. A very small sum compared to what I spend on shooting every year, and I do want the freedom to keep being able to carry out my hobby/sport. The BASC are well placed to help me do that.

[sirusman]

David,

 

I think you assume an awful lot, and we have gone into this before you and I. It appears to me that your assumption is that if one is not a BASC member then he or she is against it. Not necessarily the case!

 

Many of us here simply want to point out that your organisation is not the be all and end all.

 

It is simply one of many organisations working for a particular aspect of country sports. In the case of BASC it is purely shooting. CAI and SACS offer support for all country sports and insurance for members involved in not just shooting sports.

 

BASC may, as you are required to say as a paid employee of that organisation, be one of the better organisations. It may as some have pointed out on this forum, have over-paid staff, it may even have too many staff. Only time will tell how long it will continue to survive when it depends upon inflated membership fees for its narrow remit, and when it continues to make appeals like this one.

 

I actually think it will survive albeit as a much changed organisation in an ecomomic climate that makes people look closer at their prioroties.

 

 

Becassier

 

 

Well said sums it all up

[Cranfield]

My begging letter from the BASC went into the bin, after reading it.

A request for a donation might have made me more sympathetic, but asking for £40 was incredibly presumptuous in my mind.

 

More and more I am convinced BASC has a "death wish".

On the rare occasions that I have needed to speak to them with a question , I have always found pleasant, informative "technical" people to help me.

However the Sales and Marketing (they usually dream up the begging policy) let them down every time.

[MC]

Well I must say how suprised I am at the childishness of some of this forums members. Especially Sirusman who at 58 years old I would have thought that he would have been able to reason an arguement or point of view, instead he got a 6 year old to come up with an insulting version for the BASC initials.

 

Well done I must say.

 

What I would like to know is, where does everyone (The people who knock BASC) get the idea from that all the staff are overpaid, they all drive around in 4 x 4's and that they are hoo ray henries?

 

Are the avid SACS supporters trying to say that Ian Clark doesn't get paid? He doesn't drive? And I cannot comment on the hoo ray henry part because I have never met or even spoken to the man.

 

All the staff of BASC I have had the pleasure of speaking to have always been polite, professional and helpful in every way they can.

 

Some may say that the BASC are being presumptious about asking for £40, Some will gladly pay up. I don't know what I would do in the situation as I didn't get a letter. I do think that asking fopr a donation rather than a fixed ammount would have been a better way. This is unfortunately how the marketing people work. They had an amount they want to raise in mind, divide that by the members and bingo lets ask everyone for £40.

[Baldrick]

From a purely technical point of view, I am mystified why the BASC cannot implement monthly/quarterly Direct Debits. My employer uses DD for collecting rents on the estates and farms we manage (many thousands of individual DDs). Setting up and monitoring a large-scale scheme is not overly taxing, nor is continual chopping and changing of each individual's account.

 

Getting periodic DD introduced in this economic clime, when cash-flow is a real concern, might improve general sentiment.

 

Baldrick (a content, loyal BASC member)

[sirusman]

Well I must say how suprised I am at the childishness of some of this forums members. Especially Sirusman who at 58 years old I would have thought that he would have been able to reason an arguement or point of view, instead he got a 6 year old to come up with an insulting version for the BASC initials.

 

Hey bud you do not like do not read nuf said????

Edited November 7, 2008 by sirusman

[Quist]

I shall be donating.

Even though I have a love-hate relationship with the BASC, they need all the help they can get in preserving our sports.

Goverments are influenced by the media and we need an effective voice there