Blackbart Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 we can see what side of the fence you sit As we can with your comments.Basically you think the bloke desrved it for not MOVING when asked.What a hienus crime eh ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph5172 Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 (edited) i did not say he deserved it at all. I know what side of the fence i sit as do many others, i have no objection to anyone having opinions and sitting in whatever camp they choose and the ability to have debate is one many people have died and still are for. When it starts to get to the point where derogatory names and terms are being used thats when things get silly... as a result this will be my last comment on the topic Edited April 8, 2009 by ph5172 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 (edited) Yes I sit on the fence of freedom and tyranny from a police state where I beleive us as peopel have the riught under common law that our rights are respected, our right to protest, our right to adress greviances. This is the law of the United Kingdom, you know Bill of Rights of 1689 and the Magna Carta 1215. If you don't agree with it you are free to move to Communist China or to Fascist Myanmar. This is me done as well with this topic and this site. If you want some real discussion come here: Edit Note: Link removed. Edited April 8, 2009 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leaseone Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 (edited) ph5172 Do you think those officers deserve any respect? having done NI and others I think not my 20yr old lad has just said ' I will not ask a copper for help again as he might bash me up' he means on a Saturday night! now that is SAD as he respects the law. Send the plod to Afghan to get some people experience before they are let loose on us And NO I am not anti GOOD Police officers Edited April 8, 2009 by leaseone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jammie*dodger Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 The ****** blocking the ambulance to get Ian Tomlinson and take him to hospital, this is while the people are shouting to let the ambulance through. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f0S6PPLI8Q Like the other video - this was hard to see just what was going on. Surpirsed to see you posting though didn't you say this the other day OK it seems like I have made a mistake on this forum thinking there were some sensible types here. Oh well i guess I will just say these words as a closing thought. Good Bye, you won't have to put up with me on this forum anymore. Good to see you're a man of conviction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vole Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 I am from a family of Policemen and Women.I have a natural defensiveness of them BUT now they are retired! This reminds me of every arrogant arsey aggressive cop who has treated me so routinely like dirt in the absolutely innocent dealings I have had with them,mainly as a younger bloke,may I say.Picked up walking to 6th Form,picked up hitch hiking,stopped up because I was within a mile of a football match etc etc etc. I manage to deal with the Public in stressful situations courteously every working day but the sneering cockiness really gets on my wick.The chavs round here run amok yet this poor guy whose heart condition possibly could have been highlighted in a more "gentle" manner was beaten like a dog for nothing.He was obviously harbouring some illness but I did not hear the cop ask his medical history before assaulting him. I am all for law and order but this is like the streets of Pakistan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted April 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 He was obviously harbouring some illness but I did not hear the cop ask his medical history before assaulting him. Having spent a lot of time in cardiology consultations and wards myself, I do recall fairly clearly that significant floods of adrenaline into the bloodstream of an unfit person can contribute to cardiac arrest. Perhaps any medics on board can clarify? Being smashed across the back of the legs with a baton and then shoved to the ground, may have caused an adrenaline peak that led directly to Tomlinson's heart failing, irrespective of any other background illness. I wait with bated breath for the IPCC's ruling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 This is me done as well with this topic and this site. If you want some real discussion come here: Edit Note : Link removed. :blink: Classy site.................nutters everyone of them. Over a week ago one of my sources told me that the psychiatrists who programmed Sleepers are being hunted down and killed. It's being done like this because the psychiatrists are easier to find than are their victims. A programmed sleeper needs timely "recall visits" to keep the program in place. If there is no programmer around to keep these people in their programs, a number of things might happen. Some people will wake up, as if they have been a victim of amnesia. They will remember their "other" life and they will try to return to it and to the people they once loved. BARKING !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vole Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 (edited) Having spent a lot of time in cardiology consultations and wards myself, I do recall fairly clearly that significant floods of adrenaline into the bloodstream of an unfit person can contribute to cardiac arrest. Perhaps any medics on board can clarify? Being smashed across the back of the legs with a baton and then shoved to the ground, may have caused an adrenaline peak that led directly to Tomlinson's heart failing, irrespective of any other background illness. I wait with bated breath for the IPCC's ruling. People with coronary artery occlusion can develop chest pain when under physical or emotional stress.We put patients on a cardiac monitor and get them to walk on a treadmill and stop when the heart becomes overstressed or the monitor shows something that concerns us.If it was not the Police inducing this then a mugger with a knife could well have had the same effect. Same thing really. Let,s face it ,he got whacked for the Hell of it.He was no threat and my old Mum could have shifted that guy.A cowardly shameful act. Edited April 8, 2009 by vole21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MM Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 what a gang of odd-balls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagsy Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 G20 victim seen on film clashing with police an hour before Seems this wasn't the only time matey was dragging his heels in front of the police. Mr innocent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbithunter2008 Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 That was a great read What would happen if any nudged some body with a car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vole Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 (edited) So he obstructed the Police at 18 00. Not sure why he was battered much later while obviously not doing anything apart from slouching around.This country is the poorer for this kind of policing. ps Standing in front of a Police vehicle is hardly "clashing" is it?Let,s see what the courts say. Edited April 9, 2009 by vole21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagsy Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 This country is poorer for many more reasons than the policing taking place here. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. On another note, Bob Quick (rightly) fell on his sword today. The Home Secretary has lost confidence in him. Pity MPs aren't as accountable - the country has lost faith in her but does she do the honourable thing? I digress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegleg31 Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 from what ive seen in the video,the guy had his hands in his pockets walking away.Yes dithering and yes causing an obstruction.did that really need that sort of policing?,i think not!!.the police officer involved is a disgrace to all officer's up and down the country and needs to made an example of.If it was you or i who had pushed that guy for dithering we would be hauled in front of the courts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 You get good and bad in all walks of life, if it is found that this officer has over reacted to an incident unseen on the footage then he probably wont sleep well at night and deserves to lose his job. Hard to see what could have provoked it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegleg31 Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 even if he was provoked an officer of the law should not react in that way.yes ok if the person could've caused him an injury agreed.but with his hands in his pockets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vole Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I would not argue this point if my Mrs could go to the local shop after 8pm or if cars on my road were not walked over every weekend. That would mean that current policing methods actually worked. They patently do not because crime is rife. Beating up this half assed protester is a case of targetting the wrong people. The tin pot governments we have had all these years have resulted in an increasingly tin pot police force who,in this instance look decidedly ordinary comparing them to their foreign counterparts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I've read all these posts with great interest and agreed with lots, but been stupified by others. I don't condone anything that the officer in question has done, nor would I have done the same thing in that situation and hand on heart, I have to agree with the majority of comments in this thread regarding the use of force in this scenario. I was public order trained for more than 10 years - 6 years Level2 and 4 years at Level1 and have been instrumental in this tactic of "bubbling" countless number of times. To spend hours being bombarded with abuse by antagonistic, Lefty soap dodgers is one of the most frustrating and soul destroying jobs out there. You can't/shouldn't retaliate and I'm happy to say I never did - again, hand on heart, but I have to confess, it was hard not to at times. This officer represents a miniscule fraction of the number that were on duty that day and sadly, because of his actions, we've all been tarred with the same brush. As for some of the seriously negative comments directed at the police, such as "Send them all to Afghanistan." Think on - Who has to deliver the death message to Mrs Miggins to say that her husband has been killed on the way to work. Who has to deal with the distraught parents of a toddler run over in the street. Who goes and sits and comforts the old lady who's been the victim of some low life scum who's nicked her lifes' savings whilst pretending to be the gas man. What the bloody hell would going to Afghanistan contribute to that! Public order is a tiny percentage of what the police do day in and day out, so I say again, don't tar us all with the same brush - this bloke is a VERY small minority within a huge organisation. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vole Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Well said.I think this behaviour was an aberration but I do fear that this heavy government doctrine is resulting in too heavy policing when it comes to dissent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col1888 Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I notice that none of the anti-police brigade have commented on the violence towards the police and the criminal damage caused by these so called dissenters ! I feel truly sorry for this gent and his family, but as others have said it was not the push but a heart attack that he died from. It is impossible for officers to know about hidden medical conditions before using force. To the public this guy is just dawdling along minding his own business, ask any public order trained police officer, and they will tell you this is a common tactic by protestors, football hooligans to impede the police when clearing an area. To arrest everybody for tactics like this is unfeasible, and it is common practice to use force to move people along. A great number of the public have lost faith in the police but if they knew how frustrated most officers are by having their hands tied by an inept government and one J. SMITH in particular. Also the ineptitude of our Criminal Justice system is laughable, but who takes the blame , the police ! Jacqui Smith will push this all the way because it is taking flak off her and her porn films and bath plugs !!! As for the comment re Helmand and Iraq , grow up ! That just shows a lack of respect for all the police officers who are either injured or killed keeping law and order in this country ! I served in the Army for 14 years and served on the streets of N Ireland, Bosnia and Iraq , and am now a police officer for 8 years. I still talk to friends still in the Army, and am regularly told " I wouldn't or couldn't do your job !" Given the chance i would go to Iraq or Helmand, to hone my rifle skills !! Col Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I notice that none of the anti-police brigade have commented on the violence towards the police and the criminal damage caused by these so called dissenters ! I feel truly sorry for this gent and his family, but as others have said it was not the push but a heart attack that he died from. It is impossible for officers to know about hidden medical conditions before using force. To the public this guy is just dawdling along minding his own business, ask any public order trained police officer, and they will tell you this is a common tactic by protestors, football hooligans to impede the police when clearing an area. To arrest everybody for tactics like this is unfeasible, and it is common practice to use force to move people along. A great number of the public have lost faith in the police but if they knew how frustrated most officers are by having their hands tied by an inept government and one J. SMITH in particular. Also the ineptitude of our Criminal Justice system is laughable, but who takes the blame , the police ! Jacqui Smith will push this all the way because it is taking flak off her and her porn films and bath plugs !!! As for the comment re Helmand and Iraq , grow up ! That just shows a lack of respect for all the police officers who are either injured or killed keeping law and order in this country ! I served in the Army for 14 years and served on the streets of N Ireland, Bosnia and Iraq , and am now a police officer for 8 years. I still talk to friends still in the Army, and am regularly told " I wouldn't or couldn't do your job !" Given the chance i would go to Iraq or Helmand, to hone my rifle skills !! Col With all respect mate there is moving someone on and MOVING SOMEONE ON.Whacking someone accross the back of the legs with a baton and launching yourself at them is a different kind of MOVING THEM ALONG. The majority of police are doing a difficult job well,but why do they have to back up and keep idiots like this in the force that only give the rest of them a bad name.The public would have more respect for the police if they stood up and said this is not acceptable and got rid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col1888 Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I totally agree with you and i am not defending the officer as i don't have the full facts, but if i wasn't doing anything wrong and wasn't trying to be a problem, then when a group of public order police officers and police dogs were asking me to move , i don't think i would have hung around. You can't tell me that the guy had no knowledge of what had happened previously and on that day, and what the police were there for and trying to achieve. Again without the full facts its hard to comment but i'm sure he had been given warnings and told to move verbally, and i'm sure the action of the dog handler was another attempt to move him, in fact how the dog never got hold of him i don't know ! I know where you are coming from and as an organisation at times we do ourselves no favours, and i have seen officers going mad with batons when it was not necessary but as in every walk of life its the minority ! Col Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 If it had been a young fit protester and he was being an **** then no one would have said anything,but as he was not and he only managed another 50 metres before dropping down dead,the police should own up and say the cop got it wrong and action should be taken.The problem is when the police do get it wrong they dont own up and try there damndest to wriggle out of it and then quietly deal with it behind closed doors leaving the public to believe the culprit has got away scott free.Be it a cop speeding or a lot worse. I am glad to see the policeman up here got found guilty today of killing a young girl after driving at 93 mph in his panda car while trying to catch up to a car he thought was suspicious !No blue light,No siren and driving in a 30mph limit.Even the police pursuit trainer said "even if he was chasing an armed robber,i would class his driving as reckless"Doesnt happen very often with serving police but justice seems to have been done.Mind you if it had not been you would have seen scotswood riots on the tv again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 The correct course of action if the bloke was obstructing was for him to be arrested and have 16 hours of his day wasted in the cells. The police do not have the power to beat and push. That's the summary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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