Shooting ground safety

[grahamt]

I'm very new to shooting.

 

My first experience was when I attended the UKPSA basic course. After two full days of training, safety was fully instilled in me.

Then when I bought my first gun, I went along to the local clay ground to try it out and I was staggered by the lack of regard for safety. I presumed that what I had learned was normal but there were people in the car-park shouldering each others guns and muzzle sweeping everyone, nobody had safety glasses on, no flags are required in semi-autos... The list goes on.

 

I haven't been to any other clay grounds so I don't know if this is typical or not.

 

What's it like where you shoot?

[Chard]

It's not bad where I go, but lots of people (including me) don't wear glasses. I know I should, I've been hit in the face with bits of clay and falling shot before, but I don't like shooting in glasses. They put warning notices up, but don't enforce it.

 

Pointing guns at people doesn't happen often and the worst offenders are game shooters without a doubt. If you find yourself looking down the barrel of a shotgun at Worsley, 9 times out of 10 it'll be a S/S . They also routinely wander about outside of the cage with shells in the breech. I suppose if you're used to shooting in the middle of nowhere with nobody else in sight, it becomes the norm

 

I've hardly ever seen a flag in a semi anywhere, but also don't recall having one pointed at me, in fairness to semi users

 

I occasionally use a pump and I don't flag that either, but I bung it in a gunslip when I'm not using it.

Edited April 29, 2009 by Chard

[Peter De La Mare]

Safety has appeared to be excellent at all the grounds I've used so far.

 

Only two instances come to mind, at Gatton Bottom a middle aged chap (O/U) had a no bird and pair again on a simo pair but shot the intact one anyway. Next pair came out nice and close and he shot both with one barrel, but then committed a very big error by laughing at his luck then coming out of the stand GUN CLOSED and sleeved it. It's only when I/we mentioned that he still had a live cart in there that he broke the gun and saw it. He was incredibley embarrassed and apologised, it was mentioned that under no circumstances what so ever that one leaves the stand without breaking the gun or checking that the chamber/breech is empty.

 

At JJ's it was much the same as the OP mentioned. Group of youngish chaps were shouldering and swinging around their guns behind a stand and pointing it directly momentarily at several people and those who were walking around the blind corner straight into the barrel of a mounted gun. Not a nice experience.

[Breastman]

Graham you have to remember that the vast majority of shotgun shooters will have at best had only a few safety pointers the first time they had a lesson/went with friends to a clay ground, and while ignorance isn’t an excuse I understand when it happens at the grounds I’ve been to.

 

The UKPSA basic course is designed for PSG and in order to function smoothly and continue as a sport we have to be the safest shooters possible. The difference safety-wise between PSG’ers, clay shooters and game shooters is in general very noticable. I’ve had similar experiences to Chard and it is normally the mainly game shooters that are the worst offenders. Unfortunately its not until someone else pipes up that people realise what they should be doing.

 

Just make sure you’re at least 50 yards away from them so you only get peppered, rather than perforated! I wonder what the reaction would be to attending a clay ground wearing a flak jacket . . . . .

 

Mark

[Salop Matt]

I personally wouldnt like to say its game shooters or clay shooters that are the culprits. I personaly think it comes about when someone has a new gun and its been passed around there mates for everyone to have a look at so to speak !

[RhiannonBW]

During my first proper lesson I really had safety drummed into me, including making sure that 20g and 12g cartridges are always kept apart from each other (there's an example of a barrel that was blocked by a 20g then loaded with a 12g), breaking the gun when it's put into and taken out of the slip, never pointing a gun at another person, checking muzzles are clear before shooting, etc. After all, these are loaded weapons that we are using, and it's so easy to get carried away with the excitement and adrenalin pumping. Everyone wears ear protection, and I'd estimate about three-quarters wear eye protection.

 

I think having the examples of exploded barrels in the club house (some blocked with snow, some blocked with wrong sized cart, and a couple of others I can't remember) brings home that something knocking out the side of a metal tube a few inches away from your face is not going to be good.

 

I was saddened at Shugborough Game Fair to see a young lad, about 12-13, shooting the line with his dad. Neither of them were wearing any ear protection. The adult can make up his own mind about long term deafness, but to inflict his ignorance on his son is unforgiveable.

 

Rhiannon

[garyb]

Not clay shooting related.. but my closest "near miss" occurred at one of the local RFD's near St Albans

 

I was in the market for a new .22lr and was having a look at a CZ semi with Stealth Stalker.

 

The shop assistant took the gun, loaded 10 in the mag - and let them go out the back of the shop.... The gun was then passed around a group of.. 3 or 4 people to have a look, once it got to me I instinctively pulled the bolt back, and a live Eley sub popped out

 

We left quickly, and I purchased elsewhere.

[al4x]

if its where I think it is I've been in and they've been shooting out the back, its not much of a loss never found it much of a shop customer service wise

[T.C.]

You have to take your life in your hands and confront anyone who points a shotgun at you . Anyone who does this to me gets told to their face to stop and not do it again . I then report it to the ground owner. Whether I come back again depends on the response of the ground owner. Most sympathise and speak to the culprit if he/she is clearly identified.Anyone who points a shotgun at you is theatening your life . Legally you are entitled to respond in kind although I would not recommend it .

Edited April 30, 2009 by T.C.

[J@mes]

No issues at my local - I use both my guns there and dont have an autosafe flag - I just put my slip on the cartridge bin and then put the semi back in it as soon as my shots are taken. Never been told I had to wear glasses, and I don't - but do wear hearing protection.

 

Never had any instances of people swinging guns at me, on or off the stand. I would certainly have something to say to anyone who did so, no matter who they were!

[Devilishdave]

My local club is quite safe I have once seen a guy go to move to the next stand with an OU closed. I politely told him to open it and he apologised. No mater what your leval of experiance if you see some one do somthing unsafe you have a moral obligation to tell them even if it makes you unpopular. Bettr unpopular than dead or witnis to a terrable accident.

 

Dave

 

PS I dont care if others were glasses or not. That IMHO is their look out if you parden the pun

[BaikalsRule90]

its not too bad down here, you only have to wear hearing protection and as far as anything else its just common sense.

[varmintator]

I would not like to say it's game shooters or clay shooters I think it's just idiots in general that have no regard for safety for themselves or others.

[Guest topshot_2k]

I have witnessed allsorts at gamefair shoots and clay grounds. The thing that most annoys me is people who exit the stand with barrels pointing at head height of the people behind usually too busy blowing smoke out the barrels rather than worrying where the gun is pointing. And i have to add that 75% of the time its the shooters in clay vests covered in badges and wearing leather gloves

[Bagsy]

The thing that most annoys me is people who exit the stand with barrels pointing at head height of the people behind usually too busy blowing smoke out the barrels rather than worrying where the gun is pointing.

 

If they're blowing smoke out of the barrels then at least the gun's broken and therefore safe. Whilst I rarely see unsafe behaviour I have witnessed a university student turn with a loaded gun swinging it round towards people to the side - needless to say I doubt he'll do it again.

[Chard]

I have witnessed allsorts at gamefair shoots and clay grounds. The thing that most annoys me is people who exit the stand with barrels pointing at head height of the people behind usually too busy blowing smoke out the barrels rather than worrying where the gun is pointing. And i have to add that 75% of the time its the shooters in clay vests covered in badges and wearing leather gloves

 

 

If the guns's broken I don't see that as much of a problem really

[Gordon R]

Graham - you raise a number of issues as unsafe, but I'm not sure why:-

 

there were people in the car-park shouldering each others guns and muzzle sweeping everyone

 

If the shooters had demonstrated to those there, that the gun was unloaded and they were not pointing it at a person, but to a safe area, I don't see any problem.

 

nobody had safety glasses on

 

Safety glasses are not mandatory and at many shoots, people choose not to use them. They would only protect you from bits of broken clay - nothing else.

 

no flags are required in semi-autos

 

Why should auto owners use a flag? If they carry the shotgun with the breech showing - open and had the barrel pointing upwards - then other shooters would know it was unloaded. Side by side owners or O/U owners do no have flags in their guns. They may be broken, but could theoretically still be loaded.

 

The list goes on

 

Hard to speculate what you mean, when you don't say anything.

 

I would be a liar if I said I had never seen anything silly at a clay shoot, but shooting is one of the safest sports on the planet. The vast, vast majority are sensible people who take safety very seriously. If you saw something unsafe, you should have told the people concerned or the ground owner. When it has arisen, I have always done that. You can't afford not to do so.

Edited May 1, 2009 by Gordon R

[Beardo]

auto flags are a waste of time - you can't see them very well anyway - always better to sleeve the auto when you step down from the stand

[MC]

Graham - you raise a number of issues as unsafe, but I'm not sure why:-

 

 

 

If the shooters had demonstrated to those there, that the gun was unloaded and they were not pointing it at a person, but to a safe area, I don't see any problem.

 

 

 

Safety glasses are not mandatory and at many shoots, people choose not to use them. They would only protect you from bits of broken clay - nothing else.

 

 

 

Why should auto owners use a flag? If they carry the shotgun with the breech showing - open and had the barrel pointing upwards - then other shooters would know it was unloaded. Side by side owners or O/U owners do no have flags in their guns. They may be broken, but could theoretically still be loaded.

 

 

 

Hard to speculate what you mean, when you don't say anything.

 

I would be a liar if I said I had never seen anything silly at a clay shoot, but shooting is one of the safest sports on the planet. The vast, vast majority are sensible people who take safety very seriously. If you saw something unsafe, you should have told the people concerned or the ground owner. When it has arisen, I have always done that. You can't afford not to do so.

 

 

Hear Hear,

 

The only time I have seen anything silly was a guy at a local shoot who shot the first bird of a pair and then proceeded to turn around in the cage to ask if he hit that one. Pointing a loaded gun straight at the people behind.

 

On the whole I can't say that safety is ever an issue and yes I appreciate you will always get the odd thing happening because humans are involved. But as Gordon has already said shooting is one of the safest sports going.

[robinhood69]

Statistically speaking your probably in more danger on the drive to the ground than you are at the ground.

RH

[starlight32]

Safety has appeared to be excellent at all the grounds I've used so far.

 

Only two instances come to mind, at Gatton Bottom a middle aged chap (O/U) had a no bird and pair again on a simo pair but shot the intact one anyway. Next pair came out nice and close and he shot both with one barrel, but then committed a very big error by laughing at his luck then coming out of the stand GUN CLOSED and sleeved it. It's only when I/we mentioned that he still had a live cart in there that he broke the gun and saw it. He was incredibley embarrassed and apologised, it was mentioned that under no circumstances what so ever that one leaves the stand without breaking the gun or checking that the chamber/breech is empty.

 

At JJ's it was much the same as the OP mentioned. Group of youngish chaps were shouldering and swinging around their guns behind a stand and pointing it directly momentarily at several people and those who were walking around the blind corner straight into the barrel of a mounted gun. Not a nice experience.

 

That I am afraid is characteristic of the whole ground at JJ's. Its a saying of you pay for what you get.

 

Burger van ain'nt bad though..........

[Peter De La Mare]

Overall JJ's is good, t'was just that one occasion. :look:

[edr]

I beleive in the case of semi autos u shouldn't bother witha flag "you can hardly see them" and slings should be allowed in CPSA competitons, if its up in the air or straight to the floor there is no problem. I've had more autos pointed at me in car parks when people are attempting to put a flag in the chamber!

 

EDR

[grahamt]

The way it was explained to me was this:

 

People make mistakes and deadly accidents happen. Therefore rules need to be made to minimise the risk.

Anyone can be distracted or foget and break a rule, but in order to accidently shoot someone, you have to break three rules at once:

1.

Don't have a gun loaded until you're ready to shoot. Having a flag proves to you and those around you that the chamber is empty.

2.

Don't point the gun at anything that you not prepared to shoot. This includes when the gun is in a slip or case.

3.

Keep your finger away from the trigger until you're aimed at your target.

 

They're really hot on safety rules at PSG shoots and I had just assumed that it was the same in other disciplines. Clearly not.

[Chard]

They're really hot on safety rules at PSG shoots and I had just assumed that it was the same in other disciplines. Clearly not.

 

 

Oh behave, for Christs sake