v8benji Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 (edited) Hi all, My name is Ben, live near bicester, oxfordshire. I currently have a .22rimfire and shoot over about 500 acres locally. I spoke to the local firearms licensing chappy yesterday about upgrading to either a .22 centrefire or perhaps a .243 for fox and muntjac, he advised that there should be no problems, as long as I have a valid reason for having the rifle (whicih I do) and some experience of using such a piece in the field, with somebody who was willing to srite down and sign that I had experience and appeared competent to own and use one. Is there anybody here that would be willing to take me out shooting perhaps just a few times with a either a .22 centrefire or even better a 243, after fox or maybe muntjac or roe, will see that they get dinner and a few beers perhaps :-) and can travel quite a distance if need be, just basically want to get out and on it, gain some experience etc. Anybody willing to help? Thanks, Ben PS - I think I'm responsible and have used plenty of centrefire calibres before, just not very much in the field, mostly on ranges. Edited July 17, 2009 by v8benji Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimfire4969 Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 can't help with the shooting, but i would delete your mobile number of the post you would not want the antis getting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8benji Posted July 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 can't help with the shooting, but i would delete your mobile number of the post you would not want the antis getting it. Thanks for that, hadn't given the pesky lot a thought actually, do they browse here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 As an open forum, there is no telling who is viewing the threads etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 You may have trouble findng someone who will allow you to shoot (and sign their name to say they have). My firearms officer told me that unless I was holding a formal lease on the ground I shoot I couldn't let anyone use my rifles. Different forces have different opinions regarding this rule, but it's never simple. There's a guy on here I've taken out a couple of times who now has his own guns, just the fact that he went shooting with me was enough for his FEO. What you may find more easily is someone who will take you out and you can watch them shoot. As long as you get to see how these things are done and learn from it then I see no reason why that can't be classed as experience. Whether you actually pull the trigger or not isn't important as long as you know what's safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Ditto the post above. I have been specifically advised that I am not allowed to try someone elses rifle - nor allow another fac holder to fire mine. Quite how some FEO's require field experience is beyond me - unless that one - or my one is not well enough trained to do their job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Quite how some FEO's require field experience is beyond me nor is it a legal requirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 its a load of bullocks as lets face it you can use an estate rifle happily enough, however the guy from Sacs did state the other day that the term occupier / agent had been clarified in court to include anyone with the permission to shoot I believe. To me that suggests FEO's are trying to make new laws potentially ones they wouldn't be able to enforce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbit Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 (edited) Ditto the post above. I have been specifically advised that I am not allowed to try someone elses rifle - nor allow another fac holder to fire mine. No basis in law for the above as far as I can tell. From the homeoffice guidlines. Borrowed rifles on private premises 6.16 Section 16(1) of the 1988 Act enables a person to borrow a rifle from the occupier of private premises and to use it on those premises in the presence of either the occupier or their servant without holding a firearm certificate in respect of that rifle. It should be noted that this gives slightly more flexibility in the use of a borrowed rifle than is permissible with the use of a shot gun as described in paragraph 6.14, in that the borrowed rifle can also be used in the presence of the servant of the occupier. However, the occupier and/or their servant must hold a firearm certificate in respect of the firearm being used, and the borrower, who must be accompanied by the certificate holder (whether it is the occupier or their servant), must comply with the conditions of the certificate. These may include a safekeeping requirement and, in some cases, territorial restrictions. Section 57(4) of the 1968 Act defines “premises” as including any land. The effect of the provision is to allow a person visiting a private estate to borrow and use a rifle without a certificate. The exemption does not extend to persons under the age of 17 or to other types of firearm. There is no notification required on the loan of a firearm under these circumstances. A borrowed rifle should not be specifically identified as such on a “keeper’s” or “landowner’s” firearm certificate. The term “in the presence of” is not defined in law but is generally interpreted as being within sight and earshot FROM THE FIREARMS ACT 1988 16 Borrowed rifles on private premises .(1) A person of or over the age of seventeen may, without holding a firearm certificate, borrow a rifle from the occupier of private premises and use it on those premises in the presence either of the occupier or of a servant of the occupier if— . (a) the occupier or servant in whose presence it is used holds a firearm certificate in respect of that rifle; and . (B ) the borrower’s possession and use of it complies with any conditions as to those matters specified in the certificate. . (2) A person who by virtue of subsection (1) above is entitled without holding a firearm certificate to borrow and use a rifle in another person’s presence may also, without holding such a certificate, purchase or acquire ammunition for use in the rifle and have it in his possession during the period for which the rifle is borrowed if— . (a) the firearm certificate held by that other person authorises the holder to have in his possession at that time ammunition for the rifle of a quantity not less than that purchased or acquired by, and in the possession of, the borrower; and . (B ) the borrower’s possession and use of the ammunition complies with any conditions as to those matters specified in the certificate. Edited July 17, 2009 by hobbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 I've just had a c/f put on my fac for the first time, but i've got to be supervised,meaning i can have my own gun as long as i've got a experienced person with me when i use it, until he thinks i'm competent to use it on my own. He then informs the fao and they'll take the condition off my fac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bavarianbrit Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 Hello Ben, Call Phil Beasley located near you in Marsh Gibbon. Tel 01869 277534 I and a German pal went roe deer / munjac stalking with him last year. Got a roe deer between the two of us. He is very helpful but you better know what you are doing first as he is a very busy chappie (DSC 1 minimum) I would say before bothering him. Thames Valley Pigeon Shooting www.pigeonshooter.com Weidmansheil Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDAN Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 gday ben. has your own 500 acres been cleared by the flo for calibres up to .243? if so it should be fairly easy to get someone with an open fac to come shooting on your land and "judge" your competancy. some flo officers have an over in flated view of themselves and the powers they hold. i must stress NOT ALL OF THEM !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 if its been cleared you don't have to have an open ticket to shoot on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDAN Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 (edited) ps i live in sussex and have about 400 acres . ive got a 6.5x55 swede and rimfire and soon a custom .204 so if your willing to travel that far, give me a pm. your right of course al4x if you are the one with the permission, but most guests he takes on there will not have the open part on their fac, so could not use them on grounds other than those specified on their ticket. Edited August 6, 2009 by BIGDAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikee Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 BASC do a firearms awareness training course http://www.basc.org.uk/en/utilities/docume...6DCBACA0A0BD1A2 mikee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taffygun Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 I spoke to a barrister (he's a close friend of my uncle) regarding this just as some advice as i'm told there are a lot of "grey" areas surrounding firearms law... Basically as there are only guidelines to the law then each force can interpret the law as they see fit BUT... so can each defence.... What the conversation boiled down to is, that you can use an estate rifle as an agent of the estate ... if you have a written permission document stating that you have been given permission to undertake vermin control or pest control duties on the land then you effectively become "employed" (whether paid or unpaid) by the landowner and as such you become an agent of the estate and any person shooting with you has permission by proxy - as long as the permission to be accompanied has been given by the landowner. As I cannot guarantee that any force would or would not accept this, I know after speaking to my FEO he accepted that this is viable and as they frequently ask for mentoring on a lot of applications then it is only reasonable to follow that as a general rule. The same questions begs every time... "How could you expect someone to learn if they cannot be taught properly ??" IMO You learn by doing not by watching Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 I've just had a c/f put on my fac for the first time, but i've got to be supervised,meaning i can have my own gun as long as i've got a experienced person with me when i use it, until he thinks i'm competent to use it on my own. He then informs the fao and they'll take the condition off my fac I have the exact same condition on my FAC. I am allowed to go out on my own with my .22LR (Which I do most evenings) but I have a named mentor stated on my FAC under "conditions" for my 22-250. Fortunately I am off out with my mentor after a few foxes tonight and he will then be able to write a letter stating that he has accompanied me on several occasions and, in his opinion, I am a safe and competent shot. Once he writes this letter I can send it in with my FAC and the "mentoring condition" will be taken off immediately. I can not understand why different Police Authorities seem to put different conditions or criterior on FAC's, why can they not standardise then everyone would know where they stand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 As the law stands it's at the discretion of the chief what we can do/have. If it was all black and white they would lose that power, so why would they want it changed? It would be very helpful for us, but unlikely to happen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justintime Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 Its time the Firearms act was updated and every one sings off the same page as its all these different ideas that get you in trouble ie send email of gun transfer ACT STATES RECORDED DELIVERY just to name one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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