RSPCA on my shoot.

[MM]

Ive been to check my traps this morning, and as i pulled into the car park, i noticed an RSPCA van. There are lots of different animals on the farm, and the place is used by schools and such like for educational purposes. The farmers son came over to me to see if the traps had caught anything, and i asked him what they were there for. He said that a member of the public had phoned them to report a sick and neglected horse. The RSPCA guy was walking round the paddocks like he owned the place, pointing things out as he went. Let me tell you something. The animals on my shoot are better looked after than i am. They are always fed good fresh food (i know as i see the farmer out at 6am feeding them) and have good shelter and bedding with lots of room to run. This guy is looking at the 'neglected horse' as its a bit on the thin side. The farmer told him that as the horse was more than past his prime, he has trouble holding weight, and is visited on a regular basis by the vet. I cant belive some people would rather ring these idiots than ask the farmer if the horse was ill or had diet issues.

Anyway, the guy walked off, meek as a kitten.

[Breastman]

I know where you're coming from but asking a farmer if he's not looking after one of his horse properly?? I'd rather pull a rabid dogs tail!

 

Mark

[Ferret Master]

I wouldn't have let the scum on my land. End of.

 

FM

[al4x]

the RSPCA get a bad press on here not all of it deserved, I've seen a few cases they should have been involved in but generally their hands are tied if the animals got water. In this case its a regular thing old horses can loose weight and there is nothing you can do about it and the public have a habit of calling the RSPCA however they are usually experienced enough to see that yes its thin but old and job done. Why obstruct them so they have to come back with the police rather than simply explain it and let them go away with it on file so the next call they get they can just say its an old horse

[Ferret Master]

Because once you have let them in you have opened the door for a whole world of potential trouble.

 

Treat them like rogue callers at your door, its all they are.

 

FM

[mayfly36]

BUT did you know that...........................................

 

The RSPCA is a charity.

 

 

The Inspectorate is NOT a public law enforcement body.

 

 

Society Inspectors have NO special legal powers whatsoever.

 

 

They have NO special powers to arrest offenders.

 

 

They have NO right to enter your home to inspect your animals or to demand that you answer any of their questions.

 

 

They have NO right of access to shows, fairs and markets other than as members of the public, and can only carry out any law enforcement function as an assistant to a police-officer, upon that officer’s request.

 

 

They have NO power to stop, obstruct or otherwise detain any vehicle carrying animals.

 

 

Whilst the Society’s staff issue criminal proceedings against offenders, they do so by way of private prosecution.

 

 

Members of the Inspectorate wear uniforms which make them as much like police officers as the law will allow. They are not. The LOWEST "rank" in the Inspectorate is Inspector (apart from Trainee Inspectors). Above that they have "Chief Inspectors", "Superintendent", ’ and "Chief Superintendents". None of these ranks are officers of the Crown, and have no legal significance whatsoever. They are designed to impress the public.

 

Members of the Inspectorate in senior positions have on various occasions stated in public that they have a cavalier disregard for the law, and the protections that it affords to suspects. On September 3, 1992, Chief Inspector John Paul gave evidence at Richmond-on-Thames Magistrates’ Court in the case of David MacKay. During cross examination, defense barrister Mr Thomas Derbyshire asked the RSPCA man: "Are you telling this court that you encourage your staff to flagrantly disregard civil and legal rights in the pursuit of your ends?" Chief Inspector Paul replied: "My duty is to look after the animals, and if that involves infringing people’s civil or legal rights then so be it. The animals cannot defend themselves so we have to do it for them."

 

It is a matter of public record that in this case the RSPCA had illegally entered property, and illegally seized animals The recent RSPCA television series Animal Squad – Undercover which appeared on , Channel 4 featured Chief Superintendent Donald Balfour, Head of the RSPCA Special Operations Unit. He was asked on camera by a police officer if he had any legal powers to do what he was proposing to do. His reply was "Officially no, but we do it all the time."

 

In the recent press release in which the Society announced that they would be withdrawing their staff from prosecutions under Sl Dangerous Dogs Act 1991, they described the five men concerned as "qualified as expert witnesses". They are nothing of the sort, and this is yet another wilful misrepresentation of their legal position. The qualifying body for expert witnesses in this country is the British Academy of Experts. Only holders of full professional membership, or fellowship in the practicing category of membership are "qualified" as expert witnesses. The law is that any expert may give expert evidence if they can satisfy the court as to their expertise, but there is a vast difference between that and Academy membership. None of the RSPCA Inspectors authorised by the Society are Academy Members or Fellows, not the least because the academy requires candidates to be educated to at least first degree level, to have chartered or equivalent status in their primary profession, and to be able to pass an extensive and demanding vetting procedure, covering professional conduct and competence.

Edited September 3, 2009 by mayfly36

[Fisherman Mike]

Aye.... I agree the RSPCA do get a bad press....if the horse was well looked after then the Farmer has nothing to worry about and his reputation is intact.

 

However many years ago I did some voluntary work for the RSPCA and I can tell you two tales of misery and neglect and down right inhumane treatment to animals for every one you could tell me where the rspca have been wrongly informed.

 

Sure they now have a very active political arm and can be very persuasive in their fundraising activities but in most cases where they bring a prosecution to the CPS it is warranted and proven. Without a regulatory body like the RSPCA ill treatment of livestock and pets would be widespread, and thats a fact.

[CharlieT]

Aye.... I agree the RSPCA do get a bad press....if the horse was well looked after then the Farmer has nothing to worry about and his reputation is intact.

 

However many years ago I did some voluntary work for the RSPCA and I can tell you two tales of misery and neglect and down right inhumane treatment to animals for every one you could tell me where the rspca have been wrongly informed.

 

Sure they now have a very active political arm and can be very persuasive in their fundraising activities but in most cases where they bring a prosecution to the CPS it is warranted and proven. Without a regulatory body like the RSPCA ill treatment of livestock and pets would be widespread, and thats a fact.

 

 

I was not aware that the RSPCA was part of the police and therefore able to use the services of the CPS, nor was I aware that they were a regulatory body.

However, what I do know is that it is their policy to do all they can to have shooting banned.

[Harnser]

Did you know that the RSPCA is one of the worse charities to donate to . Only about 25 pence in the pound actually gets to the front lines to protect animals the rest goes into administration . Yes there are fat cats (excuse the pun) in the RSPCA on megga salarys /

Harnser .

[apache]

I have not a nice word to say about the RSPCA and will leave it there!

[rimfire4969]

I never do and never will donate money to this charity, why give money to someone who wants to ban the sports i love so much.

[starlight32]

Because once you have let them in you have opened the door for a whole world of potential trouble.

 

Treat them like rogue callers at your door, its all they are.

 

FM :blink:

 

 

Here, Here........

 

Bunch of parasites, as it happens I gave one short shrift the other day.......

 

Most of the RSPCA don't know **** from clay

[Scarpa]

However, I helped an RSPCA inspector catch a seagull with a hole in it's wing that had landed in an old couples garden. Black backed gull. There was a village tip nearby and he just said that it was probably pest shooting, he agreed they were pests and said he'd kill it out of sight of the people who reported it. Some of the old guard know the score and aren't against shooting.

[smig4373]

BUT did you know that...........................................

 

The RSPCA is a charity.

 

 

The Inspectorate is NOT a public law enforcement body.

 

 

Society Inspectors have NO special legal powers whatsoever.

 

 

They have NO special powers to arrest offenders.

 

 

They have NO right to enter your home to inspect your animals or to demand that you answer any of their questions.

 

 

They have NO right of access to shows, fairs and markets other than as members of the public, and can only carry out any law enforcement function as an assistant to a police-officer, upon that officer’s request.

 

 

They have NO power to stop, obstruct or otherwise detain any vehicle carrying animals.

 

 

Whilst the Society’s staff issue criminal proceedings against offenders, they do so by way of private prosecution.

 

 

Members of the Inspectorate wear uniforms which make them as much like police officers as the law will allow. They are not. The LOWEST "rank" in the Inspectorate is Inspector (apart from Trainee Inspectors). Above that they have "Chief Inspectors", "Superintendent", ’ and "Chief Superintendents". None of these ranks are officers of the Crown, and have no legal significance whatsoever. They are designed to impress the public.

 

FACT....well said...people should know these facts....

[vulpicide]

The SS pca in Scotland are just as bad(they dont like their name written like that) they beleive their own publicity and dont like the rspca cos they nick inhheritance money from

Scotland with their ads about looking after little Timmy after youve popped your clogs

[pavman]

BUT did you know that...........................................

 

The RSPCA is a charity.

 

 

The Inspectorate is NOT a public law enforcement body.

 

 

Society Inspectors have NO special legal powers whatsoever.

 

 

They have NO special powers to arrest offenders.

 

 

They have NO right to enter your home to inspect your animals or to demand that you answer any of their questions.

 

 

They have NO right of access to shows, fairs and markets other than as members of the public, and can only carry out any law enforcement function as an assistant to a police-officer, upon that officer’s request.

 

 

They have NO power to stop, obstruct or otherwise detain any vehicle carrying animals.

 

 

Whilst the Society’s staff issue criminal proceedings against offenders, they do so by way of private prosecution.

 

 

Members of the Inspectorate wear uniforms which make them as much like police officers as the law will allow. They are not. The LOWEST "rank" in the Inspectorate is Inspector (apart from Trainee Inspectors). Above that they have "Chief Inspectors", "Superintendent", ’ and "Chief Superintendents". None of these ranks are officers of the Crown, and have no legal significance whatsoever. They are designed to impress the public.

 

Members of the Inspectorate in senior positions have on various occasions stated in public that they have a cavalier disregard for the law, and the protections that it affords to suspects. On September 3, 1992, Chief Inspector John Paul gave evidence at Richmond-on-Thames Magistrates’ Court in the case of David MacKay. During cross examination, defense barrister Mr Thomas Derbyshire asked the RSPCA man: "Are you telling this court that you encourage your staff to flagrantly disregard civil and legal rights in the pursuit of your ends?" Chief Inspector Paul replied: "My duty is to look after the animals, and if that involves infringing people’s civil or legal rights then so be it. The animals cannot defend themselves so we have to do it for them."

 

It is a matter of public record that in this case the RSPCA had illegally entered property, and illegally seized animals The recent RSPCA television series Animal Squad – Undercover which appeared on , Channel 4 featured Chief Superintendent Donald Balfour, Head of the RSPCA Special Operations Unit. He was asked on camera by a police officer if he had any legal powers to do what he was proposing to do. His reply was "Officially no, but we do it all the time."

 

In the recent press release in which the Society announced that they would be withdrawing their staff from prosecutions under Sl Dangerous Dogs Act 1991, they described the five men concerned as "qualified as expert witnesses". They are nothing of the sort, and this is yet another wilful misrepresentation of their legal position. The qualifying body for expert witnesses in this country is the British Academy of Experts. Only holders of full professional membership, or fellowship in the practicing category of membership are "qualified" as expert witnesses. The law is that any expert may give expert evidence if they can satisfy the court as to their expertise, but there is a vast difference between that and Academy membership. None of the RSPCA Inspectors authorised by the Society are Academy Members or Fellows, not the least because the academy requires candidates to be educated to at least first degree level, to have chartered or equivalent status in their primary profession, and to be able to pass an extensive and demanding vetting procedure, covering professional conduct and competence.

 

Top man :blink:

[Flashman]

Sorry, when I read the title of this thread I thought the RSPCA were quarry on your shoot. I was going to ask for a day's shooting as I don't have one of them in my game book.

 

Yet...

[Alanl50]

Sorry, when I read the title of this thread I thought the RSPCA were quarry on your shoot. I was going to ask for a day's shooting as I don't have one of them in my game book.

 

Yet...

 

Perhaps we set up a syndicate lol

Regards Alan :blink:

[partridge60]

what price per bird and is VAT included?

[Mr_Logic]

[al4x]

Because once you have let them in you have opened the door for a whole world of potential trouble.

 

Treat them like rogue callers at your door, its all they are.

 

FM

 

no you haven't. If you've nothing to hide and they are investigating a complaint then the easiest option is to set their minds at rest then job done no more agro. Like a couple of the comments from people who have seen the actions when the organisation is needed you can begin to appreciate why they try and act above their station. The problem is if you act all defensive and try and read the law to them they'll assume you're hiding something and go on the offensive. I've been to a few incidents with them and I can only say some people do need to be banned from keeping animals, one was to help load some sheep well those that could walk think 15 were put down where they were a few more dead before we got there and they had had to go to court to get the ok to remove them from the owner who had no grass for them and couldn't afford feed we had the police there and the owner still kicked off while my dad was putting sheep down. When you've seen a few incidents like that you start to understand why they may be less concerned about upsetting people. In this case good explanation and no issues of neglect so a simple explanation over a cup of tea would settle it and no more would be heard. Yes you do get the cases that are unjust and financially well they're getting like most charities bloated organisations with lots of management and commercial scale fundraising ****** me right off but they are no worse than many others.

[Ferret Master]

There agenda towards field sports and field sports men and women means they would not be let anywhere near my animals. Their inspectors are not veterinary surgeons and as a result their opinion on my animals is not valid so why would I want them snooping around my property?

 

From the Self-Help-Group website:

 

 

Basic legal advice for pet owners.

 

You get a knock at the door; you open it.

 

It’s the R.S.P.C.A.

 

The “officer” may or may not be in uniform but, crucially, the police are not in attendance.

 

What should you do? Do not panic and do not let the uniform or the attitude intimidate you.

 

 

There is a good chance that you will be cautioned using the words “You do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence if you do not now mention something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence”.

 

All this means is that the R.S.P.C.A. officer can now give evidence in court as to what you say. At this time the R.S.P.C.A. have no powers to arrest you, all they can do is report you for summons. We recommend that you ask “Am I under arrest?” Note their response.

It is very important that you do not allow them entry into your premises.

They have no rights to be on your property.

 

They have no special legal powers.

 

They cannot demand entry to look at your animals.

 

They cannot demand that you answer questions.

 

You may feel that you are being helpful to let them in and have a look round and you may feel that you have nothing to hide but do not let yourself be lulled into a false sense of security. Many innocent animal keepers have lost their animals in this way.

 

If you allow them in you are opening yourself up to problems which could lead to you losing your animals even if you are a good and conscientious keeper.

 

 

Be firm, but polite, and do not let them into your house, or other premises.

 

Say “I have been advised not to answer any questions put by, or in the presence of, R.S.P.C.A. officials without a solicitor present. If you wish to question me I must insist that you arrange, and pay for, the police duty solicitor to be present”. Ask them to leave saying “Unless you have lawful authorisation to enter my premises I want you to leave now”.

 

If they refuse to leave you are entitled to use reasonable force to eject them, as you would any other common trespasser. Do not think that this is the end of the matter – they will probably be back, perhaps with the police. Telephone one of the emergency helpline numbers – we will do our best to put you in touch with people who can help. We can also advise on how you should now proceed.

 

Our basic advice would be that you need to photograph you animals and your enclosures, invite a trusted friend to look over your stock and conditions or, preferably, get someone whose testimony would carry more weight to look over your animals/pets. It would certainly be a good idea to have a specialist vet check and write you a report. We can put you in touch with expert witnesses and veterinarians and we can also seek legal advice on your behalf.

 

What do you do if the police attend your premises with the R.S.P.C.A.?

 

Ask “Do you have a search warrant, or other lawful authority, to enter my premises? Insist on a yes or no answer.

 

If the answer is no they have no right to demand access don’t let them in and proceed as you would if the R.S.P.C.A. attend on their own.

 

Many people feel intimidated when faced with “mob-handed” visits but the law is on your side. No matter what the R.S.P.C.A. may say to you, do not be tempted to let them in without proper authority.

 

No legal seizure of your animals can take place unless entry to your premises has taken place with proper authority.

 

If in any doubt, or you simply want some back-up, call the either of the helpline numbers or get someone to call on your behalf.

 

If they do have a search warrant ask “May I see and read the search warrant?” Ensure that you read the warrant before they try to enter unless they state it is urgent. It is very important that you don’t to anything to obstruct the police officer(s).

 

Check to see who is authorised to enter by the warrant. Only allow the persons authorised in the warrant onto your property and insist that any others leave.

 

Ask for a witness to be allowed in. Get a friend to come over as soon as possible. Call the Emergency Helpline 023 8044 0999 or 1470 0870 072 6689 as soon as you are able and we will try to locate an expert witness in your area to attend. We can also get legal advice for you. The sooner we know you have a problem the sooner we can start acting on your behalf. Once you animals have been seized it can be quite difficult to get them back and we would always try to prevent seizures being carried out.

 

Ensure that you record the time that any search is initiated and also the time at which it is finished. Record the details of anyone who enters and insist that you see ID cards for anyone in plain clothes.

 

Remember that anyone not specifically named on the warrant can be told to leave. If they do not leave they are guilty of trespass.

 

Don’t be bullied, be firm but polite at all times. If you feel the situation is getting out of hand, or you want advice, call us.

 

With reference to your property (whether it be your animals or any documentation), only the police have the authority to remove items.

 

The R.S.P.C.A. (or any other charity) have absolutely no authority to remove your property (and this includes your animals) without your consent.

 

If the police want to take things away seek further advice from us immediately. Insist that you are given a full receipt that lists everything in detail (e.g. 75 sheets of paper, 2 notebooks, etc.) do not accept receipts for, for example, “a quantity of correspondence” make sure it is listed in full.

 

Should your animals be removed by the police you are entitled to inspect them wherever they may have been placed and you are entitled to an independent veterinary inspection, which the R.S.P.C.A. are obliged to pay for.

 

If you are arrested insist that you speak only to the police and do not answer questions with the R.S.P.C.A. present. Insist that you wish to speak to the duty solicitor and do not make a written statement until you have spoken to the duty solicitor.

 

The police may have some other authority to enter your premises which means they can go in without a search warrant. They can, for example, enter to arrest you for various offences without your consent. If they use this authority it does not enable anyone else to enter so you can insist that all other persons leave your premises, unless they can give a lawful authority for their being present.

 

If you are unfortunate enough to be the subject of a raid you may well find yourself overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of people that end up on your doorstep. With police officers, R.S.P.C.A. personnel and members of other charities brought in as consultants or handlers, last and not least film crews, you may well be facing a dozen or more people. Thus intimidated, even though you know your rights, you could find yourself pressured into allowing admittance to your house or other premises. Most keepers are law abiding citizens who have been accustomed to cooperating with authority figures and this is what makes you vulnerable.

 

Perfectly healthy-looking animals have also been removed “for further examination”, never to be returned. Do not be persuaded to sign away your animals, for examination off your premises, or for any other purpose – you will probably not have them returned.

 

 

The way I see it is most parents would give an NSPCC charity worker short thrift if they came to the door an asked to inspect their children due to reports of neglect or cruelty so I don't see why it is any different if the uninvited caller is the RSPCA.

 

FM

[Ferret Master]

More info from the SHG website:

 

An uniformed RSPCA inspector arrives. They may knock at the door or you will see them looking into sheds, stables and buildings. They say that they have had a report about your animals and would like to check them.

 

· Have they any rights to be on your property? ................................ NO!!

· Do they have any special legal powers? ......................................... NO!!

· Can they demand entry to your dwelling to look at your animals? ... NO!!

· Can they demand that you answer questions? ................................ NO!!

 

What should you do?? Be polite, but very firm and refuse them entry. Tell them to leave. If they refuse you are entitled to use reasonable force to eject them, as you would any other common trespasser. If a policeman is present, ask him to leave unless he has a warrant, or is going to arrest you. Do not volunteer any information. Keep your mouth shut, Refuse to answer any questions. Do not even give your name. They may caution you and tell you that you are not under arrest, using the standard police wording. They may do their best to ignore you and talk over you, trying to goad you into giving answers to their allegations. The uniform, the caution, and the general demeanour are meant to intimidate you. You may feel that you are being helpful to let them in and have a look round and you may feel that you have nothing to hide but do not let yourself be lulled into a false sense of security. Many innocent animal keepers have lost their animals in this way. If you allow them in you are opening yourself up to problems which could lead to you losing your animals even if you are a good and conscientious keeper.

 

THE RSPCA DO NOT HAVE ANY SPECIAL POWERS WHATSOEVER.

 

Get names, numbers, and rank of any person present, write them down. Cancel going shopping next day, the RSPCA has a habit of returning when you are not there. People have returned to find all their animals gone and receipts nailed to a post or door. If possible move your animals to neighbours and friends you can trust.

 

What to do when they have left. Don't sit down and think that is the end of it. Your battle has only just started.. Get photographs of all your stock, land and premises. Get your vet out to look at all of your animals and get him to write a report. Act immediately on any recommendations he has. The written report is essential.

 

Get specialist legal advice. Below are two phone numbers. We know of solicitors, barristers, and specialist vets and land experts who are accepted by the courts as expert witnesses. For any help :

 

0844 700 66 90

Should your number be automatically withheld prefix the above number wth 1470

 

 

 

Hopefully none of the above has happened to you, and we hope it never will, but please be prepared just in case. Do not treat the RSPCA lightly. They are an immensely wealthy and incredibly powerful organisation who openly admit to breaching people’s civil and legal rights.

 

 

FM