Organic Food

[Mungler]

Well, as is understandable in a recession, the bubble has burst for organic food

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8267812.stm

 

• Organic veg sales down 19%
  
• Organic wine and bread sales down 50%
  

 

But, will it ever recover when organic as no real additional health benefits?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8174482.stm

 

 

 

I am afraid that I never bought into the Hugh FW organic movement; I like him and his shows, but for a millionaire he can afford to preach about whatever he choses. Yes, in the Mungler household we will try and buy the moderately happy chickens, but the full blown free range organic stuff is just ridiculously expensive.

[Dougy]

Totally agree with you there,

 

Over priced

Saw an advert localy selling free range rabbits for £12.80 a Kilo

[fullbore]

Totally agree with you there,

 

Over priced

Saw an advert localy selling free range rabbits for £12.80 a Kilo

 

 

Do they want to buy any???:unsure:??

[Dougy]

Do you think i didnt ask

[MC]

I think that most people have realised that organic food is nothing more than a con to relieve us of more of our hard earned. As Mungler says there is no health benefits from eating it, it is only the way it is produced.

 

The vast majority of my fruit and veg comes from a local greengrocer and probably at least 80% is from local growers. I do try to buy seasonal veg when possible. It is far cheaper this way and also seems to last longer than the plastic wrapped rubbish from the supermarket.

 

I do agree with the HFW way of life and would love to have my own smallholding with some livestock and veg gardens, unfortunately I haven't got the land and renting somewhere just to do that seems to defeat the object.

 

Still the fowling season has just started and the game season is about to so there will be plenty of free range meat about soon.

[Chard]

We didn't buy into the organic con either

 

I'm not sure who did really, I suppose a few lesbo earth mother Vegan moon-yodellers probably bought a few knobbly carrots at £5 a kilo, but I could never really see the appeal.

 

It's only somebody else's word that it was produced "organically" anyway, and I don't believe a word I'm told

[rimfire4969]

I am very lucky with what i have, for veg i grow my own or get it locally from the growers or greengrocers, i raise my own chickens and pigs and have a half share in a bullock thats going to slaughter next month. So my freezers will be very full. This put together withh what i shoot just about covers my family.

 

But when i have to buy meat i get it locally if i can, or i buy supermarket organic. To me it is the best way of making sure the animal has had the best life possible before slaughter. I agree alot of it is over priced, but in sainsburys a whole oraginc chicken £7.50 i would pay that over the 2 birds for a fiver anyday.

[Zapp]

The organic movement is a just lifestyle choice for those who can afford it.

 

As far as veg is concerned, as Mung pointed out there are no real benefits, other than giving those who can afford it something to talk about. Where livestock is concerned it is a different matter as it has a direct impact on animal welfare.

 

No surprises that the bubble has burst.

 

ZB

[Baldrick]

A couple of mates farm organically, and what looked (in the early-Noughties) like a licence to print money has blown up in their faces. They are now at the head of the queue to buy manufactured fertilisers, sprays and other nasty agrochemicals. Organic farming is actually very questionable, in terms of pollution: the slurry and manure used as fertiliser by these hippy lunatics is actually rich in heavy metals and other substances that cause lasting damage. Organically-reared livestock are not necessarily happy and well-tended animals. The standards of husbandry are much more important than the system of farming and the terminology used.

 

I don't buy or grow anything organically.

Edited September 22, 2009 by Baldrick

[colchesterhomebrew]

After over 18 months on a waiting list, I acquired an allotment at the beginning of the year and have been trying to find the time to tend it and grow my own veg this year. I decided to try not to use any chemical pesticides and only apply VERY small amounts of non-organic fertilizer, preferring to try and rely on compost and horse muck.

 

Despite having very little time available to look after them, my spuds, onions, radishes, lettuces, sweetcorn and especially my tomatoes turned out splendidly. My beans did really well until I couldn't get down there for three weeks during the really hot spell at the end of July/start of August and then they withered....

 

By comparison, my caulis, broccoli and cabbages were absolutely decimated by caterpillars and slugs. I tried netting, beer traps (though it was an unpleasant beer that didn't go as planned and was so poor that even I couldn't drink it - the only real failure I've had in 20 years of home brewing ), pulling the little ******* off the plants and throwing them to the birds etc. From personal experience, I would say that organic style production may well be "wildlife friendly" but I'm going to be spraying everything next year !!!

 

As for the flavour - the wife complained the sweetcorn was a little "earthy" and the kids wouldn't eat the carrots because they were too "carrotty"..., but the onions have been brill and the tomatoes (around 50lbs so far and still another batch left to pick) have made some lovely sauce for use as a base for bolognese or pizzas.

 

On a final point, whilst I was out and about in Stowmarket last week waiting for a shop to open so that I could do some "competitor analysis" (ie spying), I wandered into Aldi and they had 3-3.5lb free range chickens for £4.75 which is much cheaper than Tescos or Sainsburys seem to have them..

 

Andy

[al4x]

the whole idea is flawed as I'm sure Baldrick will be able to tell you, if you buy British the chemicals you're able to use are far less potent than the ones you can buy in B&Q, what matters is what chemicals are left in the food we eat and the simple answer is not a lot.

 

however look where food comes from abroad and see what they are still allowed to use in the foods that end up being nearly given away here and the story gets more worrying, beef growth hormones were big business in the US etc as they promoted growth but have really dodgy side effects as they get passed onto humans, Argentinian beef is another dodgy one that you do still see imported. So basically buy British but don't get hooked up on organic, if we all went organic we'd starve as there isn't enough land to be able to do it.

[Baldrick]

There's not enough British agricultural land to feed the nation anyway, al4x, even if we drenched every arable acre in nitrogen, and maximised stocking rates. I can't remember what the cereal tonnage deficit is, but it is substantial.

 

We therefore need to cull the less deserving members of the British population, so that we can feed ourselves.

[al4x]

I think Tescos might be onto something feeding them all up on cheap imported chicken and beef, just possibly it will do the job in a very subtle way

[Mungler]

There's not enough British agricultural land to feed the nation anyway, al4x, even if we drenched every arable acre in nitrogen, and maximised stocking rates. I can't remember what the cereal tonnage deficit is, but it is substantial.

 

We therefore need to cull the less deserving members of the British population, so that we can feed ourselves.

 

 

 

Is there genuinely not enough acres to do it, or is it more thatland is being used for like of OSR (certainly round the South East).

 

A country should always be able to feed itself and arm itself. Well that's us in the brown stuff then.

[Wookie]

So we should really be encouraging people to eat MaccyDs then?

 

Ok, so we don't always buy organic, but we do try to eat healthily and grow as much of our own stuff as we can. Yes, I shoot rabbits (20p a rabbit at today's HMR prices) and pigeons (call it 10p each) and we go and get a chicken now and again for sunday lunch, but we do try very hard to avoid the stuff that's been reared knee deep in its own **** in an unlit barn. I might eat just about anything, but I do have a conscience in their somewhere.

 

I don't think we could go 100% organic though. Too much nice stuff is non-organic.

 

Wookie

 

p.s. don't slag off HFW... The man is idealistic fo sho, but at least he's a little more down to earth than a lot of other role models.

[Baldrick]

I don't want subtle though, al4x. Guardian readers, BBC Countryfile staff and other objectionable eco-lunatics don't deserve subtle.

Edited September 22, 2009 by Baldrick

[Baldrick]

Is there genuinely not enough acres to do it, or is it more thatland is being used for like of OSR (certainly round the South East).

 

A country should always be able to feed itself and arm itself. Well that's us in the brown stuff then.

 

You can't grown wheat in every field, with no rotation of crops, without disease becoming rife. Continuous wheat is a disaster waiting to happen, although I am sure that in the theoretical subsistence farming scenario, the millers and other buyers would have to lower quality standards massively. If the UK shut off all imports, we'd have to keep growing OSR, as we'd be denied other food-derived oils from the USA, Europe and the Pacific.

[Guinea Fowl]

the whole idea is flawed as I'm sure Baldrick will be able to tell you, if you buy British the chemicals you're able to use are far less potent than the ones you can buy in B&Q, what matters is what chemicals are left in the food we eat and the simple answer is not a lot.

 

however look where food comes from abroad and see what they are still allowed to use in the foods that end up being nearly given away here and the story gets more worrying, beef growth hormones were big business in the US etc as they promoted growth but have really dodgy side effects as they get passed onto humans, Argentinian beef is another dodgy one that you do still see imported. So basically buy British but don't get hooked up on organic, if we all went organic we'd starve as there isn't enough land to be able to do it.

 

Even there you have to be careful.

 

A lot of companies buy meat from foreign Countries, as long as it get packed or processed here in the UK they can stick the British product label on it, there is a big loop hole that needs fixing.

 

Just remember the label states that it is British beef or what ever, not reared in Britain.

 

So if you want to buy British, make sure you read the label right or ask the a shop assistant to confirm by his managers that it is in fact a proper British product.

[jonno 357]

I bought some orangic garlic bulbs in tesco last week (50p for 2 bulbs) and it worked out cheaper than the normal ones

 

If you look carefully in the supermarkets the organic stuff never sells and it always massively reduced. Thats the only time I buy it. I would never buy it when other goods equally tasty is cheaper

 

 

 

Jonno

Edited September 22, 2009 by jonno 357

[njc110381]

I buy organic milk. I was told at some point that a lot of the **** given to farm animals these days is passed on in quite strong doses through milk so I've got that stuck in my head and want the clean stuff!

 

On the buy british side of things I try to. I also would't trust a supermarket as far as I could kick them! That said, the things I buy from Sainsbury's state "farmed in" rather than "produce of". If I see veg with "farmed in Norfolk" written on the lable I'll buy it even if it costs twice what the french version does. I feel strongly about looking after our own farmers.

 

I buy free range meat too. Not that fussed about organic, but I really don't want to buy chickens with the grater marks on their knees (you know, where they grate the burnt skin off of the knees of chickens which have had to sit in their own s***). Supposedly the dark acid burns on the skin look bad. How they feel when the bird is alive obviously counts for less than what the paying customer wants to see!

[al4x]

NJC you want to see the cell count in some of that health organic milk, nothing like a few lumps of mastitis to keep you healthy

 

The milk is withheld from cows that are under treatment on normal farms and its pretty well controlled as the milk is tested regularly so you shouldn't get anything un toward through milk. Supermarket wise about the only one I'd half trust is Waitrose but you do pay a premium for it, chicken wise I buy barn reared as having kept chickens I do think in the right barn scenario they actually are healthier than outdoor reared ones.

Edited September 22, 2009 by al4x

[jonno 357]

I buy organic milk. I was told at some point that a lot of the **** given to farm animals these days is passed on in quite strong doses through milk so I've got that stuck in my head and want the clean stuff!

 

On the buy british side of things I try to. I also would't trust a supermarket as far as I could kick them! That said, the things I buy from Sainsbury's state "farmed in" rather than "produce of". If I see veg with "farmed in Norfolk" written on the lable I'll buy it even if it costs twice what the french version does. I feel strongly about looking after our own farmers.

 

I buy free range meat too. Not that fussed about organic, but I really don't want to buy chickens with the grater marks on their knees (you know, where they grate the burnt skin off of the knees of chickens which have had to sit in their own s***). Supposedly the dark acid burns on the skin look bad. How they feel when the bird is alive obviously counts for less than what the paying customer wants to see!

 

 

How many supermarket products can you buy in the winter months? Probably only a hand full, odd sprout and a potatoe. It doesn't matter where it comes from as long as its cheap

 

Jonno

[jonno 357]

I buy organic milk. I was told at some point that a lot of the **** given to farm animals these days is passed on in quite strong doses through milk so I've got that stuck in my head and want the clean stuff!

 

On the buy british side of things I try to. I also would't trust a supermarket as far as I could kick them! That said, the things I buy from Sainsbury's state "farmed in" rather than "produce of". If I see veg with "farmed in Norfolk" written on the lable I'll buy it even if it costs twice what the french version does. I feel strongly about looking after our own farmers.

 

I buy free range meat too. Not that fussed about organic, but I really don't want to buy chickens with the grater marks on their knees (you know, where they grate the burnt skin off of the knees of chickens which have had to sit in their own s***). Supposedly the dark acid burns on the skin look bad. How they feel when the bird is alive obviously counts for less than what the paying customer wants to see!

 

 

How many supermarket products can you buy in the winter months? Probably only a hand full, odd sprout and a potatoe. It doesn't matter where it comes from as long as its cheap

 

Jonno

[rimfire4969]

chicken wise I buy barn reared as having kept chickens I do think in the right barn scenario they actually are healthier than outdoor reared ones

 

Healthier not so sure. Happier definetly not I would of thought that as you had kepted your own birds you proberly did not keep them shut up all day inside.

 

I agree some barn reared chickens have better lives than the broiler chickens, but we all know the labels game how easy is it to call any chicken raised without ever seeing the sun barn reared, if stocking dencities where put on the labels then it would be an informed choice.