F.A.C Air, 22lr or .17HMR?

[Danoi99]

I have permission to shoot on 3 local farms in my area, none of the land is flat, so plenty of safe backstops. I am thinking of going for a F.A.C for an air rifle (just fancy a bit more clout/ range than sub 12ft lbs).

 

My question is this: Is it easier to get a licence for a high power air rifle than a rimfire? I imagine that the air rifle will do what I want it to do with little problem (magpies, squirrels, crows, rabbits, pigeons etc) and the ammo is gonna be cheap.

 

But then I can see how a .17HMR would be proper fun over a greater distance. And the .22lr is gonna be good fun also, and again cheap ammo really.

 

If it's as much hassle to get High Power Air rifle....................might as well go for the rimfire option??

 

What are your experiences with either Rimfire calibre, and or F.A.C Air? Some friendly advice would be welcomed.

 

Thanks in advance for your pearls of wisdom.

 

 

[steve_b_wales]

I have used and owned all calibers mentioned. Each has its own place for shooting. But I would think it would be easier for you to get an FAC air rifle , especially if you have'nt any experience in the other two calibers. An FAC air rifle is an excellent choice for your stated needs, and, as you mentioned, would be much cheaper, ammunition wise. Range wise, an FAC air rifle is capable of taking vermin upwards of 100 yards. The .22LR is an excellent caliber for vermin control, and ammunition is cheap, averaging around 7p per bullet. Using sub sonic ammunition, it would be very quiet when fired. The bullet trajectory is a bit 'loopy' over longer distances. The .17HMR is another excellent caliber, and will allow you to shoot vermin at greater distances, around 120 yards. Ammunition is more expensive, around 30-35p per bullet.

[rich1985]

Again used all calibers mentioned, 17HMR would be my choice, shouldn't be a problem getting one, police around here would rather you have a HMR rather than 22lr as the HMR doesn't seem to ricochet like the 22lr. F.a.c air gun ok but I do prefer the clout.

[spandit]

Apply for all three, then you can buy what you want at a later date

[rich1985]

Apply for all three, then you can buy what you want at a later date

Very good point, why didn't I think of that! Lol.

[kent]

Don't give them too many requests on a first application and get a .22 lr and moderator add more as and when its worth £26 just to avoid the no and maybe or add a mentor answers . The only exception is if your wanting to shoot up into trees in that case get an FAC airgun. No FAC airgun I have ever shot or seen can really do the business anything like a RF and they cost more to buy and more to fix. If you can shoot stuff with FAC air clean at over 100 yards your a darn site better than anyone I have ever met. More commonly and in competent hands its 60 yards FAC air, 75 yards .22 LR with subs and 110 yards HMR. Sure a more practiced and capable shot can exceed this but your just setting out right?

 

HMR is not cheap to feed, noisy by comparison and offers little in the way of specialist ammo. .22 lr offers ammo from BB and CB caps about 25-40 ft lb to subs at around 80-100 ft lb and various HV and super high velocity at higher still. Oh did I mention most of us only use subsonic as its quieter than spitting with a moderator and less than half the cost of HMR. There is very good reason the .22 rf is the worlds most popular rifle and has held that slot for over 100 years

[spandit]

Personally, for £26 I'd risk the no. It's not going to count against you but I agree, definitively get a 22LR. My rifle cost me £125 and although the ammo is more expensive than air pellets, FAC air rifles aren't generally cheap (you'd want a PCP, I'm guessing)

[telf]

go for a mach2 rather than an hmr,cheaper to run(£17-100,and yes you can get the ammo),quieter and will shoot as far as an hmr,plus a 22 for night shooting or where noise is an issue

[kent]

Personally, for £26 I'd risk the no. It's not going to count against you but I agree, definitively get a 22LR. My rifle cost me £125 and although the ammo is more expensive than air pellets, FAC air rifles aren't generally cheap (you'd want a PCP, I'm guessing)

But the fact is we both have our FAC, things have changed so much now and they need only a little room to build an excuse or an endless list of daft conditions. Like you my CZ cost about similar, My FAC Rapid cost a lot more second hand then all the filling gear etc. it just wasn't economic and FAC air is a niche tool no matter that's its streets ahead of 12 ft lb its nothing like an LR

 

"I have land with rabbits to kill, Can I have a .22 LR?" Its a yes no without wiggle room to say no or once you get experience with the FAC air etc. etc. To fight an air rifle suggestion if they raise it without the applicant prompting them is easier if you never asked for one don't you think? Its like the .22 lr and .17 hmr applicants on here how many get told no .22 yet "its too bouncy" , "Choose one not both" etc. etc.

 

Within a year if you ask for FAC air after you will get it, If you add a HMR you should get it if you put forwards good reason. £26 against what you will be spending on the rig? Hey its just a suggestion

[spandit]

I only got my FAC a year ago, have things changed so much since then? My FEO did ask whether I'd considered air but I managed to convince him otherwise. He was happy to grant both .22LR and .17HMR - the latter for the ricochet issue of the former (and I know that's been debated ad infinitum on here)

 

Anyway, think we're in agreement that the OP should ask for a rimfire straight off the bat.

[lloydi73]

I only got my FAC a year ago, have things changed so much since then? My FEO did ask whether I'd considered air but I managed to convince him otherwise. He was happy to grant both .22LR and .17HMR - the latter for the ricochet issue of the former (and I know that's been debated ad infinitum on here)

 

Anyway, think we're in agreement that the OP should ask for a rimfire straight off the bat.

 

Oh yes, things have changed a lot!! I first contacted my FEO in March this year to tell him I had land permission of 550 acres and would it be ok to now apply for my first FAC.....He told me not to bother unless I had a mentor...He wouldn't even consider my application unless I had a written letter from and experienced (5 years) shooter saying I'd been shooting with them for 6 months.....I finally got my FAC in July this year and was granted 17HMR and 243 but he was very reluctant with the 243!! Can't get an open ticket straight away either, it states only land cleared by Chief Constable...i.e. land has to be pre-approved for calibre you intend on using....Only on renewal will they consider open license.

 

I know some of you are gonna jump on the band wagon of "Mentoring" not being a legal requirement, and it's been discussed in depth on here on other posts, but who's going to win of you challenge it, you or the FEO??

 

Anyway, I digress, I absolutely love the 17 I went for a CZ 455 varmint TH, and can't shoot it enough, yes it's a bit noisy, but the thud when it strikes the quarry and just drops it is second to none. However, hands up I'm novice and unlike most of you, I haven't shot a 22lr yet, but it's going to take some convincing to turn me from the 17!!

 

ATB

[Zetter]

As another new FAC grant I found oddly enough depite being granted all three I am using FAC air the most at the moment so much that I have put in a variation to upgrade my FAC air to one with a bigger shot count as I was spending too much time walking back for refills to the car!

For me it boiled down to the permissions my FAC was granted on are at the moment much more suited for air than rimfire as the bunnies are more prolific in areas I wouldnt use the rimfire. I am sure the rimmy will kick back in when the bunnies are back in the areas suited for it.

 

So I guess what you need really depends on what your permissions are like and the quarry you are after.

[Mentalmac]

I have a FAC air and a HMR. FAC air in 22 anywhere to to 0-70 yards, and HMR thereafter...

Simples.

fAC air is good for quiet lamping and also can take squirrels and pigeons with it well with not too much damage, and the HMR is good for long shots 60-150 yards.

If you want ONE gun, get a .22 rimfire. That is the most versatile.

The 22 rimfire has a looper trajectory than an hmr which makes it harder to learn than the HMR which up to 120 is fairly minimal on adjustment really.

[Andy RV]

How big are your permissions?

[tomov]

As another new FAC grant I found oddly enough depite being granted all three I am using FAC air the most at the moment so much that I have put in a variation to upgrade my FAC air to one with a bigger shot count as I was spending too much time walking back for refills to the car!

 

 

And right there is the craziest thing in our current licensing system - the 'one for one' variation. Form shuffling with absolutely zero rational justification...

[Zetter]

 

And right there is the craziest thing in our current licensing system - the 'one for one' variation. Form shuffling with absolutely zero rational justification...

 

 

Yep all im doing is upgrading the gun to a spiffier one with a bigger shot count but back goes the licence and I now see how fast TVP are on variations . Also full stocked to my limit on LR ammo as I cant buy any more while my licence is away .

[kent]

I only got my FAC a year ago, have things changed so much since then? My FEO did ask whether I'd considered air but I managed to convince him otherwise. He was happy to grant both .22LR and .17HMR - the latter for the ricochet issue of the former (and I know that's been debated ad infinitum on here)

 

Anyway, think we're in agreement that the OP should ask for a rimfire straight off the bat.

So if you would have actually asked for it he could have said "we will grant you the airgun but gain some experience before we give you the LR" this way you cannot challenge them for failure to grant with your good reason. Just saying I have done a lot of variations and renewals and if you give them a chink they pick it up and run with it

[kent]

Oh yes, things have changed a lot!! I first contacted my FEO in March this year to tell him I had land permission of 550 acres and would it be ok to now apply for my first FAC.....He told me not to bother unless I had a mentor...He wouldn't even consider my application unless I had a written letter from and experienced (5 years) shooter saying I'd been shooting with them for 6 months.....I finally got my FAC in July this year and was granted 17HMR and 243 but he was very reluctant with the 243!! Can't get an open ticket straight away either, it states only land cleared by Chief Constable...i.e. land has to be pre-approved for calibre you intend on using....Only on renewal will they consider open license.

 

I know some of you are gonna jump on the band wagon of "Mentoring" not being a legal requirement, and it's been discussed in depth on here on other posts, but who's going to win of you challenge it, you or the FEO??

 

Anyway, I digress, I absolutely love the 17 I went for a CZ 455 varmint TH, and can't shoot it enough, yes it's a bit noisy, but the thud when it strikes the quarry and just drops it is second to none. However, hands up I'm novice and unlike most of you, I haven't shot a 22lr yet, but it's going to take some convincing to turn me from the 17!!

 

ATB

 

Your mistake was only the fact you phoned and listened, should have put down one gun with land (good reason) then put the application in. With a clean background check they then have to grant (this is why they add stuff like mentor its a sort of non-grant grant if you like) its stops an appeal in its tracks. The cops will never enter court to fight a failure to grant if the applicant has good reason a good background and secure conditions, as they do not make the law as much as they might think they do

 

Remember the unwritten agenda is to reduce the number of legally held firearms

[kent]

How big are your permissions?

10,000 acres in the city centre LOL. Seriously all land has a boundry fence and rifles can shoot a long way further than you can see. I know some say it matters but were does it say this? Obviously a suburban back yard to shoot rats wont cut "good reason" over and above a std airgun.

Not having a go as I know the cops come up with this just something I raised with a BASC as I think too much can be made of land size within "good reason"

[lloydi73]

Yep all im doing is upgrading the gun to a spiffier one with a bigger shot count but back goes the licence and I now see how fast TVP are on variations . Also full stocked to my limit on LR ammo as I cant buy any more while my licence is away .

 

Crazy isn't it......they got my FAC wrong and I had to send mine back straight away. They only put deer to be shot on my 243 and forgot to add 'lawful quarry'......that was another two week turnaround!!

[paddywack]

you can lose a lot of money on fac air, as it is a limited market,as i found out for myself. 22lr with moderator and subsonics will always have a place in your cabinet,no matter which dirrection your shooting sports go.

[Dekers]

I have used and owned all calibers mentioned. Each has its own place for shooting. But I would think it would be easier for you to get an FAC air rifle , especially if you have'nt any experience in the other two calibers. An FAC air rifle is an excellent choice for your stated needs, and, as you mentioned, would be much cheaper, ammunition wise. Range wise, an FAC air rifle is capable of taking vermin upwards of 100 yards. The .22LR is an excellent caliber for vermin control, and ammunition is cheap, averaging around 7p per bullet. Using sub sonic ammunition, it would be very quiet when fired. The bullet trajectory is a bit 'loopy' over longer distances. The .17HMR is another excellent caliber, and will allow you to shoot vermin at greater distances, around 120 yards. Ammunition is more expensive, around 30-35p per bullet.

 

I'd go along with most of that but I don't rate a 30ft lb upwards of 100yards for everyday use, but FAC Air is readily available to over 100ft lb (why anyone would want 100ft lb air is beyond me though).

 

Why not ask for them all anyway if you can show the need?!

[kent]

I'd go along with most of that but I don't rate a 30ft lb upwards of 100yards for everyday use, but FAC Air is readily available to over 100ft lb (why anyone would want 100ft lb air is beyond me though).

 

Why not ask for them all anyway if you can show the need?!

Because recently its odds on they will grant the FAC air only (giving him no appeal as such) and tell him to gain some experience, things really have changed. £26 the cost of adding a variation is four tins of pellets and perhaps a fill of air but not so sure if that will get him to the gunshop as regards both ways fuel.

I honestly see the one gun application as the way ahead these days when a guy applies for a deer rifle to go stalking and they tell him to get a .22 lr and get some experience, he then needs another good reason for the .22! Its a game they now seem to play.

FAC air, .22 lr , .17 hmr are all capable of filling his "good reason" give the cops an option and they will grasp it, as you will find it a hard appeal once to make once they grant FAC air and say gather some experience they have granted him an FAC at the end of the day, lets face it not many want or are able to shell out for three guns and scopes at day 1 of grant anyhow

[Dekers]

 

I'd go along with most of that but I don't rate a 30ft lb upwards of 100yards for everyday use, but FAC Air is readily available to over 100ft lb (why anyone would want 100ft lb air is beyond me though).

 

Why not ask for them all anyway if you can show the need?!

 

 

Because recently its odds on they will grant the FAC air only (giving him no appeal as such) and tell him to gain some experience, things really have changed. £26 the cost of adding a variation is four tins of pellets and perhaps a fill of air but not so sure if that will get him to the gunshop as regards both ways fuel.

I honestly see the one gun application as the way ahead these days when a guy applies for a deer rifle to go stalking and they tell him to get a .22 lr and get some experience, he then needs another good reason for the .22! Its a game they now seem to play.

FAC air, .22 lr , .17 hmr are all capable of filling his "good reason" give the cops an option and they will grasp it, as you will find it a hard appeal once to make once they grant FAC air and say gather some experience they have granted him an FAC at the end of the day, lets face it not many want or are able to shell out for three guns and scopes at day 1 of grant anyhow

 

What a load of defeatist piffle, grow some balls and ask for what you need!

 

If you can't afford it try another hobby, this is about what you consider you need to get the job done, not how deep your pockets are!

[Zetter]

Crazy isn't it......they got my FAC wrong and I had to send mine back straight away. They only put deer to be shot on my 243 and forgot to add 'lawful quarry'......that was another two week turnaround!!

 

 

Nice to know its only roughly a 2 week turnaround on variations though Lloyd its going to take that time for my new FX to arrive at the RFDs anyway.